Frost Drake feedback

I'm sorry in advance this is lengthy, what can I say, I really like animal taming. @Kyronix @Bleak

I love the idea of a new tameable.  So please don't think of me as ungrateful. However, I think the Frost Drake could be better, unless the intent is to make just a show off pet.  As it stands right now there is no reason to use this drake over several other currently spawning animals other than a limited bling factor.  I like every animal to have a purpose though and lead a fulfilling life going on adventures with it's human companion.

Couple things in advance:

Max intensity is the full points a 0% to 100% spawned-range fully trained pet would get: all attributes, base damage, scrolls, special abilities, moves and aoe. if there is intensity to just having a skill, which we believe there might be, we do not include that, we also understand a majority of animals fall into the 20-80% range of the spawn values.

Frost Drakes (from the 20+ we were able to lore thus far on TC1) seem to follow the crimson/platinum drake model regarding attributes.  They deviate in regards to resists ranges, damage spread and special moves/abilities:
  • Resist spread:  Physical 40-50, Fire 40-50, Cold 50-60, Poison 20-30, Energy 30-40
  • Special Move: Cold Wind (vs the Crimson/Plat's Dragon Breath), ticks for 2 damage on a 70 resist player for 30 mana. Having cold wind as innate also blocks the Frost Drake from selecting the melee magicals (slashing/piercing/battle defense/etc)
  • Damage Spread: 40 Physical, 60 Cold
  • Maximum trained intensity appears to be between 7301-7653
Now we will look at a couple currently available in game animals:

Cu Sidhe * Damage spread: 50 Cold / 50 Energy *  Max Intensity: 7626-8287
  • The fact these animals are ride-able and have built in healing give them a huge desirability factor over other cold based tameables.
  • Their intensity range is also 325 higher low end - 634 high end. - I like to equate differences in intensity in the form of something tangible, like hit points because once a pet reaches a certain intensity hit points and mana are where that extra value goes.  A 325-634 intensity difference equates to 108-211 more hit points on the ride-able, self-healing/owner healing Cu Sidhe.
Crimson/Platinum Drake (Cold Damage based) * Damage spread: 100 Cold * Max Int: 7211-7713
  • Benefit of the Cold Damage based Crimson/Platinum drake is: 100% cold damage, can easily min/max for the resist weakness of the encounter for maximum damage. This fact helps offset the low intensity of the animal.
  • Dragon breath being an ability that requires 3 second casting time for every time it's cast is a dps loss.
  • Can select melee magicals (the melee mastery magical abilities)
Cold Drake * Damage Spread: 50 Physical 50 Cold * Max Intensity: 7407 - 8377
  • Overcapped Tactics upwards of 120 is a free scroll
  • Overcapped Wrestling upwards of 115 is a free scroll
  • Intensity difference: 106-724 (or 35-241 hit points )
  • Dragon Breath liability
  • Nearly identical damage spread of the Frost Drake with a lot more potential intensity.
  • Can select melee magicals (the melee mastery magical abilities)
White Wyrm * Damage Spread: 50 Physical 50 Cold * Max Intensity (3 slot spawning white wyrm): 8099 - 8762 (adjusted intensity when excluding magery: 6599-7262)
  • The adjusted intensity of a high spawn 3 slot white wyrm bring it to the low end of a crimson/plat/frost drake.
  • Near identical damage spread.
  • No innate moves/abilities/aoe to waste mana on
  • Can select melee magicals (the melee mastery magical abilities)

With the exception of the removal of dragon breath, the frost drake ends up being worse than any other animal in it's damage class.  It's low intensity doesnt have the benefit of Crimson/Platinum Drakes 100% cold damage. It has the split damage type but no intensity increase or overcapped stats to make it desirable like the Cold Drake might be to some, or increased intensity and ability to be ridden and heal like the Cu Sidhe. It also has cold wind which makes it less desirable than a white wyrm with no innates other than magery.

What are some changes that could make the Crimson Drake a more viable alternative but still keep it in balance?

  1. Change the damage spread from 40 Physical 60 cold to 20 physical 80 cold 
  2. Remove cold wind and keep innate skills clear.
or
  1. Change the damage spread to 100 cold and keep cold wind.
Either of these changes make the frost drake more viable to use as a pet but not to the point of making them more powerful than anything currently spawning.   

It could also be given higher starting attributes as it's at the low end of the 2 slot pet spectrum.  A perfect 2 slot Frost Drake would spawn at 3150 while the 2 slot pet cap is around 4255, low end is around 2705. Tigers, which are incapable of having true magics have a 2 slot intensity range of 3511-4255.  Sabretooths 3270-3626. Both ranges are above the spawn range of the Frost Drake. 

Another suggestion while I am at it:


Frost Stallion
  • Short maned horse with hue #33922 (same as Hiryu/frost drakes)
  • Fire steed starting stats, with fire and cold resists switched.
  • Damage spread 20 physical, 80 Cold
Why, there is already a Cold Damage rideable pet, the Cu Sidhe?
  • Not every tamer wants to use a CU for a mountable cold damage pet and many people like the horse models.
  • There is also an alternative energy damage pet, the Reptalon, CU's other damage type.
Why would it not be overpowered?
  • Fire Steeds have the lowest intensity of all mountable pets, and have no healing abilities.
  • 80/20 damage spread is not as powerful as a 100% but would be desirable to people
  • It would not replace the CU, as the CU's high intensity and healing make it an extremely desirable and popular as far as rideable pets are concerned.



If you are still with me after all of that, I thank you for your time and consideration.




Comments

  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 231Dev
    This is incredibly helpful feedback, thank you!  The intent of the frost drake was to provide a creature without dragonai, and with these suggestions we can improve it.  Look for an update to the frost drake in our next TC 1 update.  Thanks again!
  • PawainPawain Posts: 686
    I disagree that the damage should be more cold.  We already have 2 100% cold damage pets that can not be ridden.  Neither is used often now.

    None of the Peerless have low cold resist vs others.  100% cold will put the pet at a disadvantage.
    You would be making a pet that can kill a Hiryu...  Not something that is needed.

    The 50% physical 50% cold will match Peerless better but not as well as other pet choices.

    As stated above, Cold wind is not worth putting on a pet. 

    Change cold wind to Frozen Wind and have it slow down a target in a few ways.  Movement speed and Swing Speed.
  • VioletViolet Posts: 93
    edited November 2
    Pawain said:
    I disagree that the damage should be more cold.  We already have 2 100% cold damage pets that can not be ridden.  Neither is used often now.

    None of the Peerless have low cold resist vs others.  100% cold will put the pet at a disadvantage.
    You would be making a pet that can kill a Hiryu...  Not something that is needed.

    The 50% physical 50% cold will match Peerless better but not as well as other pet choices.

    As stated above, Cold wind is not worth putting on a pet. 

    Change cold wind to Frozen Wind and have it slow down a target in a few ways.  Movement speed and Swing Speed.

    Yet you just take Cu Sidhe's to most the content you do :) And a Cu Sidhe's damage type doesn't match most peerless encounters very well at all, but you still fully advocate using them for everything, "just bring a Cu it will kill stuff".  Actually, if you look through the resist spread for Peerless encounters, most have Energy/Cold as their highest resists. No matter how the Frost Drake is changed, you would not use it, because that is not your play style. I think you like the term "I hate flappies".  However, I do know people who would use it if it was changed to 100% cold, including myself.

    The other 100% cold damage pet not listed in my post, the Frost Mite, doesn't have the choice of true magics and cannot be ridden. There are several other beetles that can get rune corruption that are rideable and get better move selection (due to no cold wind), which makes them a better choice. That's why Frost Mites are underutilized, even with their high intensity cap.

    Yes, this does come down a bit to the power of rideable animals and how non-rideables need something to make up for it. In hindsight, rideability should have cost intensity and healing should have cost as much as true magics.

    I use non-rideables extensively, particularly at Peerless encounters since a mountable pet is not needed. I would not take a 50/50 physical/cold pet to a Peerless (other than damage testing), due to it not being efficient there. That includes the 2 that already exist (Cold Drake and White Wyrm), both of which have more intensity, and one of which already doesn't have dragonai (White Wyrm). However, there is much more content this game has to offer other than Peerless.

    Moreover, tamers do want more pure elemental damage type pets, especially if they don't have dragonai. A vast majority of pets are already physical damage or high physical with a weak secondary damage type (10-25%). Because of that fact, there is very little place for a majority of them. They just don't bring enough to the table.

    Peerless aren't the only mobs in this game. There are a lot of things a 100% cold damage non-dragonai with access to true magics would be good for, including the entire Shadowguard encounter. Balrons are weak to cold, as are whole dungeons like Destard and Fire, and some champ bosses like Rikktor.

  • great analysis Violet! And even greater to see one more tamer who didn't jump the old "use a cu sidhe for everything" band wagon.
    Since you mentioned the frost mite in your second post, could you show the numbers and how it compares to the other cold damage pets?

    I use a 100% cold damage chiv ai crimson drake for shadowguard as well. Was the first pet I trained and scrolled up when they changed the Belfry and everyone was crying how their pets would get pushed off now. It is very satisfying to watch it tear through that old Belfry dragon like a hot knife through butter...

  • PawainPawain Posts: 686
    edited November 9
    Sorry you two:

    http://www.uoguide.com/Peerless

    Cold or energy is always the second or third lowest on each peerless.  And always within 10% of the lowest.  For someone that sets resists to 70%  you claim that 10% is nothing.

    Id call that a general purpose damager.  Name a better one.

    Also I have said many times to use the info on the net to find the best pet.  I have all 5 slot pets except a Unicorn and Bane.  I know what my pets can do and I can lore Mobs to see what they can do.

    Show me one place I said take a Cu everywhere.  I show it being done but I never tell people to not take the best pet type.  

    Since this is about damages.

    @Kyronix ;  I doubt a 50% fire 50% cold would be made (because of UO Lore).  But that would be nice.

    Also any variation of 50% anything and two 25% would be great to have.

    PS

    I thought of a way to get around the UO Lore.  A push me pull me horse could be made that could have opposite damage, fire and cold.   You could do some neat stuff with that.  Maybe it could fight 2 targets or it spins around and the heads take turns doing 100% opposite damage.  You have more imagination than I.  Could be a fun thing to make.



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