Arcane Circle and Gift of Renewal

Faeryl

Can these two spells please be removed from the list of possible monster loot? It makes no sense for them to be dropped as loot when they come with the book upon completion of the quest, and makes it that much more difficult to get the rest of the spells to complete the book.

ZekeTerra

+1

Mervyn

-1

I think it would be better if instead, the book did not already have these 2 spells included. 

Faeryl

Mervyn said:

-1

I think it would be better if instead, the book did not already have these 2 spells included. 

So... when you start with with magery, you're given magery spells with the book. When you start with necromancy, you're given necromancy spells with the book. When you start with mysticism, you're given mysticism spells with the book.

And you're suggesting that spellweaving should be different in terms of starting with spells... why?

Mervyn

I don’t remember what magery, necromancy, and mysticism spells come with the book. But when you craft the books, they are empty.
magery, necromancy, and mysticism aren’t the same as spellweaving. Bushido, ninjitsu, and chivalry all come with full spells. So comparing one spell school to another is not applicable.

And the reason why not to have any spells is so that you can have the fun of stamp collecting, and a use for the gift of renewal and arcane circle scrolls.

Faeryl

Mervyn said:

I don’t remember what magery, necromancy, and mysticism spells come with the book. But when you craft the books, they are empty.
magery, necromancy, and mysticism aren’t the same as spellweaving. Bushido, ninjitsu, and chivalry all come with full spells. So comparing one spell school to another is not applicable.

And the reason why not to have any spells is so that you can have the fun of stamp collecting, and a use for the gift of renewal and arcane circle scrolls.

Crafted books being empty is irrelevant, as you can't craft spellweaving books. You get it with the quest, which is about the same situation as starting with the specific skill. It is also the only school of magic that involves scrolls where they can't be crafted. I assume due to the lack of reagent requirement.

This already means that magery, necromancy, and mysticism have the distinct advantage of being more widely available to the playerbase. Not just through crafting, but they are also common, usually in abundance, on multiple creatures throughout the game. Spellweaving scrolls are already a fairly uncommon, if not rare, drop, and are limited to certain creatures from a single expansion. And having a 2 in 14 chance of getting either the Arcane Circle or Gift of Renewal makes finding the rest of them that much more difficult.

It's simple to remove two spells from the list that can drop. And we can have fun "stamp collecting" with the other 12 spells.

Mervyn

I agree with your first 2 paragraphs, however those facts do not contribute anything to your argument. 

As for the third paragraph. I’m sure it is equally simple, if not moreso to remove the 2 free spells from the spellbook as it is to remove them from spawning. 

My solution has the advantages of
 a) making the current gift of renewal and arcane scrolls useful 
b) does not make the game less challenging which your proposal does.

Faeryl

Mervyn said:

I’m sure it is equally simple, if not moreso to remove the 2 free spells from the spellbook as it is to remove them from spawning. 

My solution has the advantages of
 a) making the current gift of renewal and arcane scrolls useful 
b) does not make the game less challenging which your proposal does.

I'm sorry, but by what logic does removing two spells that you already get from completing the quest make the game less challenging?

It was an oversight for them to even be included in the list of spells that drop to begin with. I'm merely asking them to be removed like they should have been when it was released. You're trying to make a valid argument out of nothing.

Mervyn

Rather than me explain the math about why your proposal makes it less challenging to fill the book. It may be easier to ask why you’re against my solution? As the end result is similar. 

Faeryl

Because if a character that is not fully trained and geared out needs to hunt for the spells for spellweaving, it is better for them to have the bare basics to be able to help them survive. And it allows them to start training from the start, as opposed to having to fight until they are blessed by the RNG and get a spell they can use to train.

Mervyn

Okay that makes sense, i concede to your argument.
(Although to be fair, don’t you have to kill quite a few monsters just to get the book?)
I change to 
+1
as you have managed to use logic and reason to make your argument without resorting to calling me a troll.

Faeryl

Yes, but getting a friend to help with those few monsters doesn't take long, as opposed to the length of time it takes to gather the rest. Especially when you're already likely to get multiples.