Good news everyone! I've discovered how to repair our shattered economy!

TimSt

My thief got killed 4 times yesterday while in Fel Khaldun by teamed up players.  How is that a fair fight?  I take my thief there because the champ spawn is rarely active and it is safe for my thief to detect hidden crates and chests without getting overran.  While my thief getting killed is little more of an annoyance the looting of my corpse was the annoying part.  They took my bags of sending and the reagents and potions that I would use to heal myself.  That is a dick move if you ask me.

Sliss

Cookie said:

Is Richard Garriot still relevant today? Nope. Point made, he lost the plot completely, and does not know what he is talking about. Players need to stop quoting him, he got one thing very right (the largest part possibly by accident), then messed it up. (You didn't quote him specifically, but players keep quoting what he said from back in the day, I thought I'd address it).

You've given me the standard response of a Trammie, that has zero facts, it's completely made up in terms of hypothesis. You are like someone who has been brainwashed by your state media and completely bought it.

So what I can objectively draw from your statement, that no facts will ever stand in the way of your opinion. Even when given evidence from the best source possible, you casually dismiss the source and immediately follow up by a personal attack.
A statement about a game from a person who made it and had access to all the internal stats carries a lot more weight with me (and I imagine anyone) than clearly biased ramblings of a random forum goer. 

Cookie

TimSt said:

My thief got killed 4 times yesterday while in Fel Khaldun by teamed up players.  How is that a fair fight?  I take my thief there because the champ spawn is rarely active and it is safe for my thief to detect hidden crates and chests without getting overran.  While my thief getting killed is little more of an annoyance the looting of my corpse was the annoying part.  They took my bags of sending and the reagents and potions that I would use to heal myself.  That is a dick move if you ask me.

But you can admire the natural inbuilt balancing mechanism of the game I hope?

This is a perfect risk v reward system in action.

You wouldn't be lucky enough to get this in Trammel.

Sliss said:

So what I can objectively draw from your statement, that no facts will ever stand in the way of your opinion. Even when given evidence from the best source possible, you casually dismiss the source and immediately follow up by a personal attack.
A statement about a game from a person who made it and had access to all the internal stats carries a lot more weight with me (and I imagine anyone) than clearly biased ramblings of a random forum goer. 

You have no real facts, I have no real facts. We are both discussing opinions.
Yours is that the game would be dead, with zero facts, Mine is that the game would be better off.

They did something to stop losing players at the time. That doesn't mean all would have gone, maybe the game would have been better off losing those players, and keeping the emotionally, intellectually, more skilful players than the losers they pandered to who can't even think for themselves.

You didn't answer my question either, are you able to?
Given the way I presented it to you, was Trammel the best possible solution with more rewards?

And yes, maybe I did a personal attack on you on a forum, gosh aren't I naughty?
I did it so you could play the victim a little bit more, you are so great at it.
Have you noticed how huge sections of society are only interested in playing the victim?
We can't all be victims I guess, so ultimately it may only leave me, as sole oppressor over 10 billion Whiney people. 

NamelessJourney

I was reading the Lake Austin meet and greet report on the other forum, and saw nothing relevant to this discussion, but I suppose I should ask somebody who can actually make one of those meet and greets if the developers would consider an all Fel ruleset shard (not Siege Perilous that has other mechanics built in) that is non-transferable and another "standard" shard that is non transferable and that only paid subscriptions can access them to help get a grip on economic stability with a very stern handling of any detected duping/mechanical exploitations that are obviously wrong and bad/ and actual enforcement of the ToS that is noticeable and not like remedial (sometimes months after the damage is done) band-aid style gabbledegook.

 I think this would be the best solution to having a semi-stable economic shard and they can even put an addendum like they do for the "pre-prodo/early patch" shards that they will experiment with money ideas on those shards before (if they even) roll out to the normal prodo shards. I think there are a few servers that patches hit to "experiment" on live game players instead of just letting Test Center be used for it. That or just do some actual at least intermediate level monitoring of these two proposed shards to keep them going in the right direction. Like if somebody keeps accusing somebody of speed hacking and it turns out this is just a person with a grudge, ban them for a week, or whatever else. If they keep doing stuff like that, just deny them access to the shard forever and let them play on the other ones or ban them outright whatever else. On the other hand, if the guy using exploits is busted 1 time, for legitimately using illegal programs completely 100% irrevocably ban them completely off UO. Get the message across. Something..

 Same thing for the normal shard, if somebody on there intentionally abusing in game systems and they know better, just ban them completely off the game forever. If somebody accuses somebody and no evidence ban them for a week.. if they do it again, ban them completely off the game. Maybe the player base will dwindle a bit, but if people knew an actual enforced ruleset was being pushed, with a fresh economy where there were no transfers to or from the server would ever happen EVER and only paying subscribers could.. well, ok I'll quit dreaming. I enjoy UO regardless for the things it offers over the competitors. I see potential, and I think the majority of people see SO much potential, but just get on edge and have sub-optimal ways of dealing with it? For some people UO is a very precious pressure relief system after working a stressful day/ career/ whatever and they get a bit emo (I been there) when something just gets ramrodded on the player base that nobody (maybe like 1 person on an obscure forum) asked for and it turned out terrible and caused much raging etc. Then there's this wall of silence from the development staff or whatever, and then people start eating each other's esophagus out crying fowl or whatever else. Pardon the hyperbole.

 So I guess in closing, if somebody makes it to a meet and greet, and doesn't mind proposing this idea to the devs (maybe put a spin on it, I'm not perfect, nor do I think my "solution" is either but it's an idea) please propose the idea. Also, I love you all. And cookies are delicious.

Sliss

Cookie said:

You have no real facts, I have no real facts. We are both discussing opinions.
Yours is that the game would be dead, with zero facts,

No, no, no. Let's not be putting us on equal footing here. All you have is an opinion. I am am quoting the person who did have the facts. That person had the stats and was one of the people making a decision about Trammel. And considering that this is not enough for you, it's obvious that nothing ever will be.

And yes, maybe I did a personal attack on you on a forum, gosh aren't I naughty?
I did it so you could play the victim a little bit more, you are so great at it.
Have you noticed how huge sections of society are only interested in playing the victim?
We can't all be victims I guess, so ultimately it may only leave me, as sole oppressor over 10 billion Whiney people. 

Dear lord, would you stop projecting and trying to bring RL politics into this? You have no idea what my political affiliation is, and I suspect you'd be surprised if I bothered to tell you.

Bilbo

FACT  EA told UO to fix UO because they were losing subs and the fastest way UO could figure out how to fix UO was to create Tram, Fel only was killing UO and EA saw the writing on the wall.

Cookie

Sliss said:

Cookie said:

You have no real facts, I have no real facts. We are both discussing opinions.
Yours is that the game would be dead, with zero facts,

No, no, no. Let's not be putting us on equal footing here. All you have is an opinion. I am am quoting the person who did have the facts. That person had the stats and was one of the people making a decision about Trammel. And considering that this is not enough for you, it's obvious that nothing ever will be.

We are not on equal footing, I am the only one providing any critical original analysis here, you are just regurgitating the same old mantra's, please don't even assume you have even showed up to this debate yet.

We have a failed system, so spouting out the same old nonsense won't do it for me, agreed.

What would do it, is if I saw any logical counter arguments, or any decent response to my original question to you. If I saw any glimpses of original thought processing would be fantastic.

For example, I have liked all of NamelessJourney's posts, he is thinking around the topic, putting in posts that attempt to actually tackle the subject. And Nameless - by the way, I had a huge thread on Stratics last year, where I asked for exactly what you just suggested in your above post, when I'm not on holiday stuck on an iPad sunbathing around the pool, I'll try and find you a link. My final conclusion was I can really only fix this for myself, so I started playing Siege. To you, and all the other new guys, I do love this game very much, but I am critical of glaring issues. There are definately aspects where you have to let some things go.

Bilbo said:

FACT  EA told UO to fix UO because they were losing subs and the fastest way UO could figure out how to fix UO was to create Tram, Fel only was killing UO and EA saw the writing on the wall.

EA are absolutely known for doing the best thing for a game, and not treating them like a cash cow.  

TimSt

Cookie said:

TimSt said:

My thief got killed 4 times yesterday while in Fel Khaldun by teamed up players.  How is that a fair fight?  I take my thief there because the champ spawn is rarely active and it is safe for my thief to detect hidden crates and chests without getting overran.  While my thief getting killed is little more of an annoyance the looting of my corpse was the annoying part.  They took my bags of sending and the reagents and potions that I would use to heal myself.  That is a dick move if you ask me.

But you can admire the natural inbuilt balancing mechanism of the game I hope?

This is a perfect risk v reward system in action.

You wouldn't be lucky enough to get this in Trammel.

It reminds me of why I fled Felucca to Trammel when it was created. Overpowered players killing less powerful players.

Come December 1st when the Treasures of Khaldun event ends I'll stop coming to Felucca except to mine in remote areas.  Felucca is not a fun place to play in.

Rorschach

It was worth a shot...