Hidden Khaldun Chests

@Kyronix

The idea behind this was good, but poorly executed, as a pure rogue,  with all the skills. I can not compete with people who run around see me detect hidden a chest, then cast telekinesis and magic untrap while im waiting for a skill cooldown or dying from the constant failure of GM Revove Trap, they take the loot from the chest i uncovered, this is pure BS.

The publish notes say "discerning rogue", that should mean you need at least GM Lockpicking and/ or  Remove Trap, which should be fixed, it's been horribly broken for years, which is why no one uses it any more.

So basically I miss out on the chests, because I want to play a class that should be able to do this, and not some half baked super class, I've been playing since UO started and and I'm getting tired of every year my char class is becoming more and more useless. This is the only class I like to play, i should not be forced to play something I dont like or want to.

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Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,904
    I was wondering if that would be happening on Atlantic.
  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018
    Pawain said:
    I was wondering if that would be happening on Atlantic.


    Happening  on my home shard of Chessy and on Atlantic with my rouge there,not that it matters where it happens, shouldnt happen at all.

    The point being they get best of both worlds by killing the spawn getting whatever, then taking  stuff from a chest that someone uncovers and cant kill spawn and has a bigger risk of dying cuz they are a pure rouge.

  • XareXare Posts: 124
    Those damn make-ups not being able to kill stuff.
  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018
    Xare said:
    Those damn make-ups not being able to kill stuff.


    Dunno what u mean by that, but this char is 21years old, and its the only character i like to play not some just random char i made over-night. Like i said its a pure rouge.

    100 Detect

    100 Remove Trap

    100 Hiding

    120 Stealth (real)

    120 Stealing (real)

    100 Picking

    110 Spirit Speak (80 real, 30 jewels) for  healing

    So yeah i'm a bit miffed that people are able to do they do,  when the publish note say "discerning rogue. I can't loot your kills in Trammel, you "SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE OR LOOT A CHEST THAT YOU DID NOT UNCOVER", end of story.

  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,904
    edited September 2018
    Do the Fel ones on Chessy.

    I took my lockpicker with a player that has detect and did some. Maybe they should make the chest only be seen by those who detect it and party members.
  • I have a character with detect but no lockpicking (yet). I was unable to use the unlock spell to open the chest. Was that just bad luck on that chest?
  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018

    I tried doing some in Fel on Chessy, but since my rogue is in VVV,  once another VVV player sees me,  they cast Earthquake to reveal me then  proceed to kill me, or get me killed by mobs. Happened earlier before i went to the tram version.

    As for unlock spell, maybe the chest was to high lvl for the spell, but I know it works, cuz they do unlock, untrap, untrap, untrap using a cast macro, in less than the time it takes just for the detect hidden cooldown to finish, which another reason its horrible as a rogue.

     I have to detect, remove trap, then pick. It's 10 secs for the cooldown on each skill (22 sec total, 20 just in skill cooldowns, 1-2 secs before u can pick). In that time they have done 3-4 chests running around casting and invising the mobs off.

  • TimTim Posts: 651
    I agree the chest should only be visible to the person who detects it unless they set off the trap.
    That would not only be fare but would also get me and everyone else to finally use "Remove Trap"
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,272
    With four of us in the Pacific Tram dungeon we were on top of each other detecting, lock picking, and removing traps on the boxes.  I would hate to see what Atlantic would be like.
  • KhyroKhyro Posts: 200
    @Homer Sorry you were having such a rough time in Khaldun, hopefully you were able to get some chests after we cleared the spawn tonight.

    I have a rogue as well that I ended up giving enough Magery to in order to invis myself because of my frustration with never being able to successfully stealth in the middle of aggro. He has no eval or combat skills, so can't kill anything though.

    I agree that the thief class needs a major rework. Remove Trap needs a much higher success rate, and it should not drop stealth on a success and only a chance to drop stealth on a fail (especially at GM).

    I also think hidden chests should abide by the same rules that treasure map chests do -- only the person (and their group) that dig it up/detect it are allowed to open it.
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  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018
    Khyro said:
    @ Homer Sorry you were having such a rough time in Khaldun, hopefully you were able to get some chests after we cleared the spawn tonight.

    I have a rogue as well that I ended up giving enough Magery to in order to invis myself because of my frustration with never being able to successfully stealth in the middle of aggro. He has no eval or combat skills, so can't kill anything though.

    I agree that the thief class needs a major rework. Remove Trap needs a much higher success rate, and it should not drop stealth on a success and only a chance to drop stealth on a fail (especially at GM).

    I also think hidden chests should abide by the same rules that treasure map chests do -- only the person (and their group) that dig it up/detect it are allowed to open it.


    Yes the treasure chest rules would be a  major improvemnet, it wasnt the dying that was get me upset it was the fact that i find the chest and  and they can clean out before i even have a chance to use a "rogue" skill after using detect. The only reason i kept dying with aggo was cuz i was wearing heavier armor than what i should be and failing the stealth check, cuz i was trying to bypass the remove trap part of the steps and soak the dmg from opening the chest.

    I managed to get 2 chests after you cleared the area for some lousy gold and bandages, while the other guy running around on a llama got like 8-10 chests. He basically has insta cast on spells and didnt have to suffer insane cooldowns on skills, what takes me at least 20 secs worth of skill cooldowns, only took him like 5 secs to do, so theres no way to compete with that.

  • come to Siege Perilous where telekinesis and remove trap don't work to remove traps. You will have to deal with people trying to kill you though
  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018
    come to Siege Perilous where telekinesis and remove trap don't work to remove traps. You will have to deal with people trying to kill you though


    I can go to the fel version on my shard if i want people to kill me, what i want is things to be more fair and even, I invested all the time and points in the those skills, not fair that someone just go make a new char and stone over 50 magery and use scrolls of invis and ever fail getting hidden, and be 20x better than someone that  has rogue skills, and had to spend 200 skills points for it.

    The whole issue is the skill cooldowns and the fact that If i detect the chest they just cast spells while I'm SOL waiting for 10 secs, while i watch them empty the chest. How would you feel if i was able to walk up  to a champ spawn while your killing it, steal all its loot, so your left with a empty corpse, bet you wouldnt be to happy then.

    Like i said in a previous post, this is my char and the class i like to play and i dont want to play another one. The rouge class and its skills have gone neglected for far to long.

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2018
    The khaldun chest traps do hardly any damage anyway, I don’t even bother casting telekinesis.

    or does setting off the trap destroy an item?
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    Mervyn said:
    The khaldun chest traps do hardly any damage anyway, I don’t even bother casting telekinesis.

    or does setting off the trap destroy an item?

    It does not destroy anything, but your pointing out the weakness of rogue skills, limited in what we can wear to stealth in (unless you afford to get a suit made with all right properties on the correct armor),  so basically the 3 traps insta kill you on a failed remove trap or opening the chest, sometimes even a revenant spawns and pop shots you, but it's not flagged murderer. It just spawns as a normal mob, dunno what thats about, seems to happen on a failed failed remove trap and dying.
  • is an imbued all 70s leather suit really that expensive on prodo? also you can reduce the cool down of detect and remove by moving around to trigger a stealth check which has a cooldown of only 5 seconds.
  • This is exactly the same mechanic as is used in Exodus dungeon and Kotl city. We didn't get this kind of griefing there. Or if we did, I didn't know about it.  
    Having treasure hunted on Siege I can tell you the the only thing you need on the armor is 70 fire resist. It's possible to make a credible suit for a rogue with basic imbuing and barbed leather, not even needing special materials.
  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018
    is an imbued all 70s leather suit really that expensive on prodo? also you can reduce the cool down of detect and remove by moving around to trigger a stealth check which has a cooldown of only 5 seconds. 

    It is, if your getting spawn lured on to you and dying cuz people intsantly  hide after they cast Invis., 500k gold in a day gone due to this crap. If I cant hide when I have aggro, then Invis should be the damn way, again unfair due to some one stoning 50 skill points in magery and using scrolls, when I have to use 200 points for hiding and stealth. Shaving 5 secs off 20 is not really going to help, it will still be 15secs for me vs their 5 secs.

    This is exactly the same mechanic as is used in Exodus dungeon and Kotl city. We didn't get this kind of griefing there. Or if we did, I didn't know about it.  
    Having treasure hunted on Siege I can tell you the the only thing you need on the armor is 70 fire resist. It's possible to make a credible suit for a rogue with basic imbuing and barbed leather, not even needing special materials.
    Maybe your shard has nicer people, on my shard as soon I uncovered the chest, people running  mounted invis near it cast the their macro then invis again, while i'm  waiting on cooldowns, then throw in the fact I have  I  get unhidden when using remove trap, and have to run off and hide again.


    The rogue skill Remove trap severely need to be tweaked, its need to more reliable, remove the part where it unhides, like it was said earlier, or remove the cooldown on both detect and remove trap if you are gm in both skills and have gm hiding.


  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2018
    But this is the game, it’s like complaining that in Tetris the blocks start moving too fast after a while.

    ##
     ##

    i have not experienced any difficulty with the chests and I actually had to control 2 chars as lockpicking was on a different char to my detect hidden char and I didn’t have any macros set up either. 

    I think there is a lot of wolf crying going on, such as someone saying moonglow graveyard is too difficult. When something is genuinely too difficult you may find if falling on deaf ears thanks to threads such as this.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    Mervyn said:
    But this is the game, it’s like complaining that in Tetris the blocks start moving too fast after a while.

    ##
     ##

    i have not experienced any difficulty with the chests and I actually had to control 2 chars as lockpicking was on a different char to my detect hidden char and I didn’t have any macros set up either.
    What part  are you not understanding, If I detect the chest someone should not be able to walk over, use a macro because they see the chest an after I uncover it and  loot away while using spells that are basically instant  cast, while I'm waiting on skill cooldowns. That's good for than u can play 2 accounts at once and bypass mechanics. Maybe your on shard where people respect others stuff and not greedy. If I'm the person who detected the chest it should mine just like treasure chests, again another example if you dig up a treasure map, kill all the spawn, I should be able up to walk up to it and pick and loot it clean, sounds fair no?

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2018
    In trammel I would say maybe you are correct. However not in fel.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    Mervyn said:
    In trammel I would say maybe you are correct. However not in fel.
    Correct in Trammel, is the issue.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,904
    edited September 2018
    TimSt said:
    With four of us in the Pacific Tram dungeon we were on top of each other detecting, lock picking, and removing traps on the boxes.  I would hate to see what Atlantic would be like.

    This could be what was happening to the OP.   The shard is busy, thats a good thing.  They both detected and the other guy was faster at getting to the sweets.


  • XareXare Posts: 124
    edited September 2018
    Homer said:
    Xare said:
    Those damn make-ups not being able to kill stuff.


    Dunno what u mean by that, but this char is 21years old, and its the only character i like to play not some just random char i made over-night. Like i said its a pure rouge.

    100 Detect

    100 Remove Trap

    100 Hiding

    120 Stealth (real)

    120 Stealing (real)

    100 Picking

    110 Spirit Speak (80 real, 30 jewels) for  healing

    So yeah i'm a bit miffed that people are able to do they do,  when the publish note say "discerning rogue. I can't loot your kills in Trammel, you "SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE OR LOOT A CHEST THAT YOU DID NOT UNCOVER", end of story.


    You'd think that after 21 years, you would a) have a sense of humor, b) know the difference between rogue and rouge.

    Why should you have sole came to a chest just because you have point in a skill that shows it?  This is nothing like killing a monster.  Not to mention regular chests, which these are based on, rather than treasure chests which have their own weird coding, don't have any lockout to prevent other players from looting them. 

    Just wait until the first when the rest of the event goes live.  I'd wager that the treasure chests being active was a bug and should never have happened.  Since its the only way for people to earn the relics at the moment, they're jumping all over it.

  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,272

    Has the hidden boxes / chests been turned off?  I went through Pacific Tram twice today and not a single you sense something hidden nearby message.

  • SkettSkett Posts: 343
    I play on Pac as well and had the same thing happen a couple of times 
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    Homer said:
    Mervyn said:
    But this is the game, it’s like complaining that in Tetris the blocks start moving too fast after a while.

    ##
     ##

    i have not experienced any difficulty with the chests and I actually had to control 2 chars as lockpicking was on a different char to my detect hidden char and I didn’t have any macros set up either.
    What part  are you not understanding, If I detect the chest someone should not be able to walk over, use a macro because they see the chest an after I uncover it and  loot away while using spells that are basically instant  cast, while I'm waiting on skill cooldowns. That's good for than u can play 2 accounts at once and bypass mechanics. Maybe your on shard where people respect others stuff and not greedy. If I'm the person who detected the chest it should mine just like treasure chests, again another example if you dig up a treasure map, kill all the spawn, I should be able up to walk up to it and pick and loot it clean, sounds fair no?

    I found the solution to this,

    you goto the fel khaldun and if you’re not red yourself take a red guild member with you who can hit area and kill the other players.




    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2018
    I looted some nice items from a lockpicker (presumably the items came from the chests)
    The staff is not imbuable. You need armslore to get this gump and it makes a cool whispering noise.

    Also got some pretty counterfeit platinum bricks. Scores of taint and corruption and dreadhorn mains. And about 4 different paintings.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • HomerHomer Posts: 32
    edited September 2018
    Xare said:

    You'd think that after 21 years, you would a) have a sense of humor, b) know the difference between rogue and rouge.

    Why should you have sole came to a chest just because you have point in a skill that shows it?  This is nothing like killing a monster.  Not to mention regular chests, which these are based on, rather than treasure chests which have their own weird coding, don't have any lockout to prevent other players from looting them. 

    Just wait until the first when the rest of the event goes live.  I'd wager that the treasure chests being active was a bug and should never have happened.  Since its the only way for people to earn the relics at the moment, they're jumping all over it.

    Apparantly  whoever wrote the publish notes dont either, cuz i copied the spelling from the publish notes, why should i have a sense of humor when idiots are using spells to lure mobs on me costing me gold in insurance while i get crap after i uncover the chest.

    It's fine if you wanna go that route, invis should  fail if  u have aggro and have 10 sec recast time, the same way it does for me when i try hiding, Hiding costs me 100 skill points and has a delay of 10 secs, why should  you get 100% chance to hide using a spell with 50 points and scroll that never fails, over and over.

    They shouldn't of put "Throughout Khaldun these treasure troves can be found to reward the discerning rogue with a number of premium rewards including...", in the patch notes if it was meant for everybody.

    Alot of you are missing my point that the rogue skills are broken compared to everything else in the game cooldown wise and skill point wise, this need to be fixed.If you dont see that, then your blind.

    Every class/skill that has gotten stuff added to them or fixed to make them more fair, yet rogue skills are neglected, and lets see what in the game for true rogues:

    EM Events = nothing

    Story Arcs =  nothing

    Live Events = nothing

    Trammel Champ Spawns = nothing

    Fel Champ Spawns = Powerscrolls, if your lucky enough to get one using run by random stealing and not get killed.

    Artifacts = yes

    Every other class/combo has access to everything 100% of the time. I only like playing a true rogue, and in the games current state there is nothing and there should be, for a true rogue. I'm not the only one either, many people left the game for this reason, it used to be a really fun class, but it been long forgotten and neglected.

    Now heres the issue with Khaldun Chests:

    Everyone, 150 points and scrolls (100 Detect and 50 Magery): 

    Detect Hidden (10 sec cooldown, dont apply since your using spells for next part)

    Unlock (1 sec cast delay)

    Invis (1 sec cast delay)

    Telekinesis (1 sec cast delay)

    Invis (1 sec cast delay)

    Loot

    150 points and 5 sec of time.


    Me, 520 points (100 Detect, 100 Remove, 100 Hide, 100 Pick, 120 Stealth):

    Detect Hidden (10 sec cooldown)

    Remove Trap (10 sec cooldown, become unhidden using skill, most likely die cuz of insane failure rate)

    Hide/Stealth (if no mobs around othewrwise have to run off and Hide and Stealth back

    Pick (can be done here or before Remove Trap, dont matter)

    Loot

    520 points and 20 - 30 secs of time

    If you dont see how there's a  problem there then you are truly blind, or your just happy with the way it is cuz you dont have to work for the chests

  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,272
    Interestingly my thief had no problems sensing the hidden chests and crates while my mage could not sense anything with the same detect hidden skill value.
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