Does wearing a talisman while training affect skill gain?

Rock

Should my character wear a talisman while training the skill the talisman boosts output for?  It is not obvious to me; I know if it raised skill, then training that skill would be more difficult.  OTOH, talismans don't raise skill; they raise success chance.  One of my guys is working Carpentry right now, selling his output to  a vendor.  Cash yield would be higher if he wears his Carpentry talisman, but I don't want to do that if doing so reduces his chance to gain skill.

Mervyn

Hmm, well you probably don’t want to wear one. I think the gain chance is based on a check on the chance of success and your actual success. So you’ll be raising the chance of success however generally you probably want to be crafting lower end items as it normally takes less wood. So you probably want to lower your success chance. 

This is why people use the satyre trick to gain in skills. 

But I can’t be sure. Because maybe it does the check on your actual skill vs the item you’re creating. 

Might have to ask a dev if you can’t tell in game. 

Rock

@Mervyn, I think he has 92.4 Carpentry now, with a fairly steady gain rate of 0.1 every 300 boards or so.  He is currently crafting Black Staves (9 boards each) until 95 skill, at which point he will switch to Tetsubos (10 boards each).  Compared to crafting other carpentry stuff, these have low wood consumption.  Plus they have a chance to raise Arms Lore, which he is also working.

I really need to learn the Satyr trick.  I've read about it, but haven't actually tried it yet.  I wish players could Discord each other, maybe treating players as a 160-bardable (pretty much max Discord and Music needed, but only half normal effectiveness).

Rock

@Mervyn, I think I just verified that wearing a talisman does not affect skill gain.  My smith was filling a BOD to make 10 exceptional viking swords while wearing a talisman.  The blacksmith gump showed that he has 100% chance of making it, with 32.8% chance of exceptional.  His Blacksmithing went up from 70.5 to 70.7 while making 11 of them.  Normally with 100% success rate, one would not gain skill.  So he took off the talisman, and his actual success chance is 92.8%. So even with the 100% success chance showing, it must have been his actual skill used in determining whether he got any skill gain.

Bilbo

Rock said:

@ Mervyn, I think I just verified that wearing a talisman does not affect skill gain.  My smith was filling a BOD to make 10 exceptional viking swords while wearing a talisman.  The blacksmith gump showed that he has 100% chance of making it, with 32.8% chance of exceptional.  His Blacksmithing went up from 70.5 to 70.7 while making 11 of them.  Normally with 100% success rate, one would not gain skill.  So he took off the talisman, and his actual success chance is 92.8%. So even with the 100% success chance showing, it must have been his actual skill used in determining whether he got any skill gain.

How many Ex did you make, that is where you got the gain from.

Rock

@Bilbo, I don't quite understand.  Does "Ex" mean exceptional?  If so, he made 10 exceptional swords and one or two normal ones that he smelted down.  I forget the exceptional success rate with the talisman -- I think it was in the high 80s.  Are you saying that if normal success rate is 100% and exceptional rate is less, then gains can occur on exceptional items?

If you mean experience points, then 0.2.  I cannot think of anything else you might mean.

Bilbo

If you have a %100 success rate than you will gain nothing from making them, if you could gain from making stuff at %100 then there would be no need to make anything harder.  Tallies do count or every crafter would be using the highest one they could when training or any other skill trainer and if you think it is true then why do people training magery use items that drop their magery to get better gains.  Yes EX means Exceptional and that is where you get your got your gain from not the Normal ones. 

Bilbo

https://uo2.stratics.com/skill-guides/
https://uo2.stratics.com/skill-guides/skills-and-professions/blacksmith-essay/blacksmith-skill-gain/
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/blacksmithing/blacksmith-craftables/

Basara

Your chance to get a skill gain from crafting depends on your chance of success cross-checked with your skill cap for the skill.

Skills that don't go over 100, you can't gain after you hit 100% success on the crafted item.
Skills that have powerscrolls, you can gain until your chance of success (theoretical) hits the percentage equivalent to the Powerscroll. Talismans are ignored by this. * 

Note that while success chance over 100%, it appears that the "true" number is still tracked over 100%. This is because, below 95.0 skill, exceptional chance is the base success chance -60%, while at 100.0 and above, it is base success chance -45%, for most skills (between 95 and 100, presumably an artifact of the pre-powerscroll era, the ratio is bumped from a 0.1 skill = 0.2% success gain, to 01. skill = 0.5% success gain).

If you used a 105 Power Scroll, you can theoretically have gains until you reach 105% success chance (2.5 skill over where the item hit 100% success chance)

If you used a 110 Power Scroll, you can theoretically have gains until you reach 110% success chance (5.0 skill over where the item hit 100% success chance)

If you use a 115 Power Scroll, you can theoretically have gains until you reach 115% success chance (7.5 skill over where the item hit 100% success chance)

If you use a 120 Power Scroll, you can theoretically have gains until you reach 120% success chance (10.0 skill over where the item hit 100% success chance)

Typically, the easiest way to calculate whether or not you've reached the top end for a gain, is to check your exceptional chance (without any talismans on). 

At 95 skill or below, a 40% exceptional chance is 100% crafting chance. 45% exceptional is 105% crafting, 50% exceptional is 110% crafting, 55% ex is 115%, and 60% is 120%.

At 100 skill or higher, 55% exceptional chance is 100% crafting chance, 60% exceptional is 105% crafting, 65% exceptional is 110% crafting, 70% is 115%, and 75% is 120%.


* Ancient Smith Hammers are not supposed to affect gains, but there seems to be a slowing in gains if using one to get well over 100% success chance - but that could just be the RNG acting up. using an ASH doesn't prevent GGS gains at least.

Rock

@Basara, thank you for the thorough explanation.