The Clydesdale: Last Stand, Your Thoughts?

Community Manager · June 6

We are soliciting feedback from the PvP Community on this feature.

Thank you kindly!

Lukas · June 6

It really hard to tell how strong it is, we need to test them on Prodo in some big fights to see how strong it really is. But imo on test it seems balanced and pretty Cool.

Sheogorath · June 6

I would say it definitely adds flavor to the PvP, considering it is important especially for players that has templates for dismounting the enemies - fights might become more interesting.

Cookie · June 6

I'm ok with it, in fact I'm looking forward to it.

Most players I know of, are thinking, yep must get it, it's a must have now.
If it gets killed, then we pop VvV mounts, so not much change in a sense - dismounting is already rife, most deaths happen dismounted anyway.

I'm happy with the 30 minute timer, that is about right, some timers are too long to make something worth even using based on how useful the ability is, this one seems about right.

Thumbs up from me, the mount is cool as well.

Cookie · June 6

Ok, on request from someone, I have tried to get pvpers to respond here.
In general, pvpers do not respond on forums, they are too busy living/playing to respond, this isn't their thing.
And when a 25 year old vet shows up with 1 post, they also face a lot of disbelief.

One of the issues is, due to many years of not being listened to, pvpers have given up giving feedback - I have tried to suggest this could be different.
Any pvpers reading, please give some feedback, and preferably agree with me.

SmokingBob · June 7

i think the cooldown should be a bit longer.
maybe about 1hr?

Randytheman · June 7

Sorry I'm a little light on the details of exactly how this works. This is what I've heard but I haven't had time to test and confirm on my own. Please let me know if what I've heard is wrong.

-Pet is 1 slot.
-Cool down on the buff is 30 minutes.
-The buff prevents all damage from the spell/hit that would otherwise kill you.

If that stuff is true, then my concerns are in the pet being 1 slot. If it's a 1 slot pet everyone who PvP's without this horse is putting themselves at a disadvantage. Will they be permanent in the game after this event or will anyone who plays after this just permanent be at a disadvantage until they buy this horse? If the pet was a 2 slot pet, my concerns disappear since you need to invest a lot of skill points into taming and lore in order to get this defensive buff. This makes more sense to me since it falls in line with other defensive cooldowns. Gotta invest skill points to get it. PvP tamers could use some love in group fights as well.

When the buff goes off, if it prevents just the one source of damage that would kill you and then goes on cooldown, there will be plenty of situations where this buff will not save you. How does the buff handle situations when two sources of damage land at the exact same time? Does it prevent both spells damage? Depending on what happens it could make the buff either OP or not that impactful.

Grimbeard · June 7

We all know the pvp client already being adjusted

Blaze · June 7

It will ruin one vs one fights and in general small fights… make it work only for PvM. We do not need something like this in PvP.

BUT if you really want to go that route… do the timer once every 24 hrs (character bound), not every 30 minutes.

Every 30 minutes will ruin the game

SmokingBob · June 7

Blaze said:

It will ruin one vs one fights and in general small fights… make it work only for PvM. We do not need something like this in PvP.

BUT if you really want to go that route… do the timer once every 24 hrs (character bound), not every 30 minutes.

Every 30 minutes will ruin the game

ya i agree this.
cooldown should be longer so dont effect much in vvv.
in pvm and murder attack would be ok.
so, only trigger for pvm / murder attack or cooldown need to increase longer.

Cookie · June 7

Blaze said:

It will ruin one vs one fights and in general small fights… make it work only for PvM. We do not need something like this in PvP.

BUT if you really want to go that route… do the timer once every 24 hrs (character bound), not every 30 minutes.

Every 30 minutes will ruin the game

We already have Evade going off every 20 seconds, and Seed of Life healing 40 odd every time a player gets critically low.

I don't see how once every 30 minutes really changes anything.
It's a bit like reactive paralyse - I've been 1 hit from death a few times, then my attacker has frozen on me and cannot complete the killing blow - it happens, but it isn't a major part of the game.

I do not see how it can ruin the game, considering Evade, and Dismount we already have going on - this is just a little nice to have, like reactive paralyse (and not as frequent as that even).

Randytheman said:

-Pet is 1 slot.
-Cool down on the buff is 30 minutes.
-The buff prevents all damage from the spell/hit that would otherwise kill you.

Yes this is correct. Say you have 10HP left, and a spell was to hit you for 15HP, you remain with 10HP. In many situations the follow-up is going to kill you anyway. It will lead to a few miraculous escapes. For me, 5 minutes is a long time, I don't see how once every 30 minutes is a long cooldown. Players already switch characters when they die anyway.

I think it is a good point that all pvpers will feel they need one - so the pattern would become Clydesdales, then VvV mounts. If they stop spawning after this event - they will become like Bane dragons, all future pvp characters will want them. I can see a lot being collected and put in stables.

psycho · June 7

Community Manager said:

We are soliciting feedback from the PvP Community on this feature.
Thank you kindly!

The feature of the clydesdale is magical, however it is what you would expect from a warhorse, designed for pvp and fights. However warhorses does not have this feature. Thus I come to the conclusion in the following statement;

The 25 year vet reward Hildebrandt shield, quote from UO.com "30 % chance to flame strike a mob on successful parry and a 5% chance to flame strike unsuccessful parry, does not proc against other players or pets."

I think the same should apply to the clydesdale horse. I would be fine with it working in pvm, however in pvp I do not see the need for the feature. Again if it was a warhorse then fine, but its not. You can use dreadhorses in pvp too, and say "trick" and a mighty annimation appears, however it doesnt do any damage.

Thus there are magical forces at work but not all magical forces would have an impact on pvp.

Event without an impact on pvp the clydesdale would still be a wanted horse for pvm, and bank-deco-item aswell as special hues makes them more wanted.

satana · June 7

Sorry, but it's a terrible idea. It's a bit disappointing that when it comes to pvp you ignore bugs that have been reported multiple times since 15 years ago, but want to add a pay to win horsey that saves your life just because.

Do you want to make yet another object that literally every single pvper will want to have? Do you want to see a felucca where everyone runs on the same fiery pony? Come on...

Foos · June 7

I think this should not work in PVP at all. Leave it a PVM feature.

DeanWinchester · June 7

This new pet skill will total break the pvp system if you are not extremely careful. Like previous commenters have said, it cannot be a 1 slot pet. If it is 1 slot you can gain this pet skill for NOTHING. It will be a REQUIREMENT for pvp. New pvpers will not only face a disadvantage of a skill gap. They will be required to buy one of these horses to even have a chance.

This new skill is also not needed. Pvp already has evade, mana shield, heal pot, apples, seed of life, barrab pot, and its almost impossible to kill a good player while not on timers for these things. Now you want to add ANOTHER timer?

It also just feels like pay to win. If these horses dont stay for the rest of time, and are 1 slot, then you MUST buy one to have a chance at pvp.

I know Grimbeard said "we know the pvp client is being adjusted". Do we? Aren't we being asked to address what needs to be changed? If its already being adjusted, why was the question asked? Why weren't we informed? What are these adjustments? Where do we find this information? I would love to know the details.

Grimbeard · June 7

DeanWinchester said:

This new pet skill will total break the pvp system if you are not extremely careful. Like previous commenters have said, it cannot be a 1 slot pet. If it is 1 slot you can gain this pet skill for NOTHING. It will be a REQUIREMENT for pvp. New pvpers will not only face a disadvantage of a skill gap. They will be required to buy one of these horses to even have a chance.

This new skill is also not needed. Pvp already has evade, mana shield, heal pot, apples, seed of life, barrab pot, and its almost impossible to kill a good player while not on timers for these things. Now you want to add ANOTHER timer?

It also just feels like pay to win. If these horses dont stay for the rest of time, and are 1 slot, then you MUST buy one to have a chance at pvp.

I know Grimbeard said "we know the pvp client is being adjusted". Do we? Aren't we being asked to address what needs to be changed? If its already being adjusted, why was the question asked? Why weren't we informed? What are these adjustments? Where do we find this information? I would love to know the details.

Let me guess you're the last honest pvper who only use cc with no mods ...ask cookie he'll explain it

CovenantX · June 7

Clydesdale's "Last Stand" should either have no chance to proc the 'cheat death' against other players.

Or

The Clydesdale should be leveled up to a minimum of 2/5 follower slots in order for the ability to become activated, so that It'd only be useful to those with the required Animal Taming skill.

* "Last Stand" should have a global cooldown associated with it as well, so players cannot just 'summon another Clydesdale, and get several 'last stand' procs within the intended 30min cooldown period.

Grimbeard · June 7

There are many unfortunate things here
Pvp and pvm are intertwined you can't change one without affecting the other (dog archers ruined and vvv items used in tram by non pvpers)

The other client ...

This seems like an attempt by the team for a pvp item but they don't use the other client so don't understand how hard it is to kill another player with the total automation that happens

Cookie · June 7

As it stands, and I respect the opinions of all the guys who have made their comments, I am conceding defeat.

But I do want to say this, many of you are concerned about breaking the current PvP Meta.
I would probably agree with this - BUT I accept I am happy to break the current Meta, probably hence my viewpoint. That is how I am different to many pvpers currently, I am progressive, I want to break the current Meta, and move somewhere else.
What it would do, is get rid of the ridiculous bok mage or even dexxers style RNG 1 shot routines so many rely on, then they would have to learn to pvp properly.

In a sense, it does not bother me either way, although I think it is a massive shame, I think it would be nice to have something for pvpers to go for in this content. Yes I accept, we all want stuff fixed from 15 years ago - but that is a whole different issue.

Cookie · June 7

Grimbeard said:

Let me guess you're the last honest pvper who only use cc with no mods ...ask cookie he'll explain it

I understand your point, but I'm not going to explain anything.
As a pvmer, you often suffer from a stereotypical viewpoint also.

Grimbeard · June 7

I sCookie said:

Grimbeard said:

Let me guess you're the last honest pvper who only use cc with no mods ...ask cookie he'll explain it

I understand your point, but I'm not going to explain anything.
As a pvmer, you often suffer from a stereotypical viewpoint also.

Not at all I 10000% approve of your game play and give zero F's about what happens in fel but as long as it can and does impact my play I'm going to squawk

CovenantX · June 7

Grimbeard said:

There are many unfortunate things here
Pvp and pvm are intertwined you can't change one without affecting the other (dog archers ruined and vvv items used in tram by non pvpers)

The other client ...

This seems like an attempt by the team for a pvp item but they don't use the other client so don't understand how hard it is to kill another player with the total automation that happens

Swampy Armor used to work in both pvp & pvm, it was removed from pvp, still works in pvm.

the devs can differentiate just about anything they want between pvp/pvm. It's a matter if they want to put in the time to separate the two, with mechanics such as this.

Armor Ignore capped at 35 pvp, not capped at all pvm. in addition, has a scaling cap vs player pets based on the HP of the pet. -there are plenty of examples where it's different between pvp/pvm, as there are also examples where it is not, and probably should be.

a side note, Armored Swamp Dragon (aside from the appearance & Unless you're a tamer since swamp dragons cannot be leveled up) would still be superior in pvm over the Clydesdale's 30min cooldown ability, especially if it has a global cooldown so you actually have to wait 30mins in order to proc "Last Stand" again.

I wouldn't equate the different clients people use (legal or not) as the same thing, but you're definitely spot on with the last part of the post, PvP does not need ANYTHING to help in terms of defense whether it be additional game mechanics or third-party sourced (mostly against the ToS automation). There's too much of that already.

Violet · June 7

CovenantX said:

* "Last Stand" should have a global cooldown associated with it as well, so players cannot just 'summon another Clydesdale, and get several 'last stand' procs within the intended 30min cooldown period.

Sounds like players are offering feedback when they don't actually understand, know or have tested the mechanics of this.

1. it can only trigger once every 30 minutes and the owner has to be actually riding it.

2. The mount can be killed, it has about 165 health and an average of 30-40s resists and the player cannot rezz it without vet.

3. The proc is once every 30 minutes per owner. You cannot summon endless Clydesdales.

satana said:

Sorry, but it's a terrible idea. It's a bit disappointing that when it comes to pvp you ignore bugs that have been reported multiple times since 15 years ago, but want to add a pay to win horsey that saves your life just because.

Do you want to make yet another object that literally every single pvper will want to have? Do you want to see a felucca where everyone runs on the same fiery pony? Come on...

Please explain how this is pay to win? You can find them all over Ilshenar and T2A and all you need is a tamer friend with GM taming to tame them. There has been no mention of them being a limited pet in the patch notes.

CovenantX · June 7

Violet said:

CovenantX said:

* "Last Stand" should have a global cooldown associated with it as well, so players cannot just 'summon another Clydesdale, and get several 'last stand' procs within the intended 30min cooldown period.

Sounds like players are offering feedback when they don't actually understand, know or have tested the mechanics of this.

1. it can only trigger once every 30 minutes and the owner has to be actually riding it.

2. The mount can be killed, it has about 165 health and an average of 30-40s resists and the player cannot rezz it without vet.

3. The proc is once every 30 minutes per owner. You cannot summon endless Clydesdales.

the " * ", should have been enough to tell you that it was an "IF" situation, something like that shouldn't need to be tested, but here in UO we've had issues similar with other mechanics before, (bypassing skill cooldowns, shiruken/fukiya darts etc etc...) clearly you didn't know, cause your post makes no sense in context.

the rest should be as suggested. because it's just a stupid mechanic for pvp. I don't expect anyone who doesn't pvp to know anything about that though.

I also found it amusing that the amount of HP & Resistances the mount has was relevant at all, the 'cheat death' doesn't take any of that into consideration, nor could the pet be damage while it's ridden anyway.

you could summon up to 5 of them, at one slot each. simple math tells you that.

it is set on a global cooldown, so that part is, at least, not overlooked.

DeanWinchester · June 7

Yea, sounds like alot of these commenters are making comments when they dont actually understand, know or have tested the mechanics of pvp. I respect everyone's opinion. But the sad reality is, if something can be abused in pvp, it will be abused in pvp. Covenant X gave examples. And anyone who has pvp'd in the past 5 years knows how defensive builds are already. I do not think it has much to do with the current "meta". The meta changes daily depending on the tactics employed by the opponents. If one team uses all dexers, the other team will use all all parry mages (just to give an example of the countering of templates). The fact that does not change is this- spellweavings mana shield, bushido evade, along with consumables like heal pots, bandages, seed of life, barrab pot, apples, etc, give almost any template you choose the ability to survive 6+ ppl attacking them at one time. Yes, the CAN and do die. But this usually takes a grave mistake on the part of the player. In my experience pvpers do not want, nor need, any more defense. In fact most pvpers are disillusioned with the fact that ppl cannot be easily killed. In my opinion (based on the opinions I have heard expressed from many other pvps who currently play and those who have quit because they do not like the defensive play style) we do not need yet another skill cool down to bypass for a kill. Far from it. We should be trending in the other direction. Making it easier for pvpers to die, or get a kill. I think that would attract more older players back to the original game.

Pawain · 1:22AM

Yall wonder why they do not make changes to PvP. Pets are always killed in PvP after the rider is dismounted. Mervyn can teach you how.

OMG someone wont die on a kill hit once every 30 minutes. And they must be on the mount.

Yall only want changes that wont effect the game?

Randytheman · 2:44AM

I thought I would just add to the sentiment that the game is already too defensively oriented. It's pretty tough to kill someone who isn't taking some pretty big risks unless you have 4-5+ organized guys all lining up spells and abilities with either some really good RNG or having already blown through several of the defenders cool downs. This leads most groups to try to hit some minimum threshold of people they feel they can comfortably kill someone in the field with. If you could reduce that number of players maybe some groups wouldn't feel the need to pile on so many people to compete.

I'm not talking about dueling in a boxed in arena where you are trapped. I'm talking about in the field where straight line running away is always an option. Also probably people aren't doing arena duels on mounts in most situations anyway.

I think this new cool down is fine if it's limited to players who have taming/lore but otherwise it doesn't really have a place.

CovenantX · 3:36AM

Pawain said:

Yall wonder why they do not make changes to PvP. Pets are always killed in PvP after the rider is dismounted. Mervyn can teach you how.

OMG someone wont die on a kill hit once every 30 minutes. And they must be on the mount.

Yall only want changes that wont effect the game?

Cause most people with a lot of pvp experience in UO can see the negative impacts just reading the patch notes describing the mechanics. (assuming they work as written)

the cooldown doesn't require you to be logged in for it to reset either, so if you somehow manage to die with a 'cheat death' that no one had before, congrats, you can use it again on your next character, and hopefully (for you) you don't die before the cooldown of your previous death is reset. -yea it's going to be dumb AF in pvp.

I personally don't want any changes that is going to make pvp worse. It's bad enough that you don't find any spell-casters without parry/evasion, most people are using clients that shouldn't be usable on official servers for things that would have gotten you banned a long time ago.

Pawain · 5:45AM

If it is not wanted in PvP, and you have to be mounted for it to work in PvM. It is useless if you are a tamer because your pet is fighting.

I doubt a melee toon would use a swampy.

My archer could use it for the Cheat Death.

Id rather it have a hidden ability like a Juvenile Manticore has that takes up no intensity.

Hoof stomp that would do some damage while you are mounted.

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The Clydesdale: Last Stand, Your Thoughts?

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