When using a Mage Weapon, melee or ranged (Archery), do Slayer Talismans work ?

popps

As we know, Slayer Talismans only work for Warriors, melee or ranged, they do not work for spellcasting which needs the slayer on the spellbook and hold it in the spellcaster's hand.

Mage Weapons allow a spellcaster to hold the weapon and use Magery skill "as if" it was a melee/ranged Warrior skill to fight.

Question is, do Slayer Talismans then also work with Mage Weapons as they work for Warrior ?

I mean, with Mage Weapons, the Mage is fighting as a Warrior, right ? So, I would imagine, that Talismans should work, but the question is, do they ?

Also, what about Tactics ?

As we know, Tactics is needed with melee/ranged weapons and skills in order to do damage just like Evaluate Intelligence is needed for Magery or Spirit Speak for Necromancy in order to do damage, for example.

But what about Mage Weapons ? Does Evaluate Intelligence still apply for damage calculations when using melee "Mage" weapons or would the Tactics skill be needed for the Mage, in addition to Evaluate Intelligence, in order to do some damage with a Mage Weapon ?

Thank you.

Garret

  Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply, the difference only that you use magery for hit/deff calculation and almost every mage weapon decrease magery so you need compensate magery skill from skill bonuses and you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics).
  For example you have weapon with -15 magery and you have 100 real magery after you equip weapon your skill goes down to 85, if your target have 100 wepon skill it will not count you have 100 skill vs 100 skill it will count like you have 85 skill vs 100 skill so you have to equip bonus skill equipment (jewelrys mostly).
  If you have -0 mage weapon so no need skill bonus compensation.
  After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
  Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types.
  Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when you use spell chanell + mage weapon types.
   When you invest in to mage weapon it is hard to combine lrc/lmc/mr build with all melee caps that you require to fight properly so mostly players use mage weapon only for deffence calculation, so you will have another layer of protection on your mage.
  With 0 weapon skill on character monsters will have 100% chance to hit you in melee range even if you have dci so there is choice (if you need another layer of deffence, if you choose to play without protection and wish have less spell interrupts on you for example) or you invest full skill in to wrestling to equip books, or mage weapon, or another weapon skill.

P.S.
It is hard but possible, but very very situationally.

P.P.S another pro tip/secret inside this screen, if you know you know.

popps

Garret said:

  Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply, the difference only that you use magery for hit/deff calculation and almost every mage weapon decrease magery so you need compensate magery skill from skill bonuses and you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics).
  For example you have weapon with -15 magery and you have 100 real magery after you equip weapon your skill goes down to 85, if your target have 100 wepon skill for example it will not count you have 100 skill vs 100 skill it will count like you have 85 skill vs 100 skill so you have to equip bonus skill equipment (jewelrys mostly).
  If you have -0 mage weapon so no need skill bonus compentation.
  After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
  Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types.
  Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when you use spell chanell + mage weapon types.
   When you invest in to mage weapon it is hard to combine lrc/lmc/mr build with all melee caps that you require to fight properly so mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation, so you will have another layer of protection on your mage.
  With 0 weapon skill on character monsters will have 100% chance to hit you in melee range even if you have dci so there is choice (if you need another layer of deffence, if you choose to play without protection and wish have less spell interrupts on you for example) or you invest full skill in to wrestling to equip books, or mage weapon, or another weapon skill.

P.S.
It is hard but possible, but very very situationally.

P.P.S another pro tip/secret inside this screen, if you know you know.

Thank you for the reply.

You mention that Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types, does this mean that using a Mage Weapon without having the tactics skill will do hardly any damage, as we know that it is Eval Int that does damage for Magery spells and Tactics that does it for Warrior skills ?

You also say, that Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when I use spell chanell + mage weapon types but I was not interested in the damage from spells but, rather, in the damage from yielding and using the Mage "Weapon"...

In regards to the damage done when yielding and using a "Mage Weapon", in what way is the damage done factored in ?

Do Slayer Talismans work ? If the suit has Damage Increase, will this be factored in ?

And if the Mage using a Mage Weapon does not have any Tactics skill, but has Eval Int, how will the damage done yielding and using the Mage Weapon be calculated ?

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

JackFlashUk

popps said:

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

Why?

popps

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

Why?

Perhaps, because there might be scenarios where a Mage, yielding and using a Mage weapon, might have to fight MoBs "toe to toe", so to speak, rather then from a distance as a spellcaster, because of too close quarters, from example ?

Garret

popps said:

Garret said:

  Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply, the difference only that you use magery for hit/deff calculation and almost every mage weapon decrease magery so you need compensate magery skill from skill bonuses and you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics).
  For example you have weapon with -15 magery and you have 100 real magery after you equip weapon your skill goes down to 85, if your target have 100 wepon skill for example it will not count you have 100 skill vs 100 skill it will count like you have 85 skill vs 100 skill so you have to equip bonus skill equipment (jewelrys mostly).
  If you have -0 mage weapon so no need skill bonus compentation.
  After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
  Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types.
  Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when you use spell chanell + mage weapon types.
   When you invest in to mage weapon it is hard to combine lrc/lmc/mr build with all melee caps that you require to fight properly so mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation, so you will have another layer of protection on your mage.
  With 0 weapon skill on character monsters will have 100% chance to hit you in melee range even if you have dci so there is choice (if you need another layer of deffence, if you choose to play without protection and wish have less spell interrupts on you for example) or you invest full skill in to wrestling to equip books, or mage weapon, or another weapon skill.

P.S.
It is hard but possible, but very very situationally.

P.P.S another pro tip/secret inside this screen, if you know you know.

Thank you for the reply.

You mention that Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types, does this mean that using a Mage Weapon without having the tactics skill will do hardly any damage, as we know that it is Eval Int that does damage for Magery spells and Tactics that does it for Warrior skills ?

You also say, that Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when I use spell chanell + mage weapon types but I was not interested in the damage from spells but, rather, in the damage from yielding and using the Mage "Weapon"...

In regards to the damage done when yielding and using a "Mage Weapon", in what way is the damage done factored in ?

Do Slayer Talismans work ? If the suit has Damage Increase, will this be factored in ?

And if the Mage using a Mage Weapon does not have any Tactics skill, but has Eval Int, how will the damage done yielding and using the Mage Weapon be calculated ?

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

- "Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types."

- "After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
(Slayers on weapon and tali works the same as for normal weapon)"

- "Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types."

I write examples how and why you use mage weapon even with screen of my build.

- "mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation".
- "you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics)".
 - "Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply".

Is it clear now ? Im not rude but you have to read before asking same questions, no offence.

JackFlashUk

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

Why?

Perhaps, because there might be scenarios where a Mage, yielding and using a Mage weapon, might have to fight MoBs "toe to toe", so to speak, rather then from a distance as a spellcaster, because of too close quarters, from example ?

Perhaps?

So you don't actually know, just another Kleenex exercise for you?

Why are you wasting everyone else's time with hypothetical nonsense?

just play the game your way and stop thinking of topics just so you can pleasure yourself

After all this time you have played or appeared to have played you should have all your chars sorted trained and you should be enjoying the game your way


So, WHY are you always looking for ways to ask stupid questions?


You just think of ways to create discussion topics FOR NO REASON

@Mariah why do you guys allow such boring time wasting?

Garret

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

Why?

Perhaps, because there might be scenarios where a Mage, yielding and using a Mage weapon, might have to fight MoBs "toe to toe", so to speak, rather then from a distance as a spellcaster, because of too close quarters, from example ?

Perhaps?

So you don't actually know, just another Kleenex exercise for you?

Why are you wasting everyone else's time with hypothetical nonsense?

just play the game your way and stop thinking of topics just so you can pleasure yourself

After all this time you have played or appeared to have played you should have all your chars sorted trained and you should be enjoying the game your way


So, WHY are you always looking for ways to ask stupid questions?


You just think of ways to create discussion topics FOR NO REASON

@ Mariah why do you guys allow such boring time wasting?

  This type of build could have use, i personaly use this for running double discord mastery + attack(bonus dmg) + leach bonus mana + trigger discord mastery more so i can infinitely upkeep my discord mastery when pet is fighting and tanking fat monsters.
  So tamer bard can't go with weapon skill but you can utilize magery for this.

popps

Garret said:

popps said:

Garret said:

  Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply, the difference only that you use magery for hit/deff calculation and almost every mage weapon decrease magery so you need compensate magery skill from skill bonuses and you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics).
  For example you have weapon with -15 magery and you have 100 real magery after you equip weapon your skill goes down to 85, if your target have 100 wepon skill for example it will not count you have 100 skill vs 100 skill it will count like you have 85 skill vs 100 skill so you have to equip bonus skill equipment (jewelrys mostly).
  If you have -0 mage weapon so no need skill bonus compentation.
  After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
  Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types.
  Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when you use spell chanell + mage weapon types.
   When you invest in to mage weapon it is hard to combine lrc/lmc/mr build with all melee caps that you require to fight properly so mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation, so you will have another layer of protection on your mage.
  With 0 weapon skill on character monsters will have 100% chance to hit you in melee range even if you have dci so there is choice (if you need another layer of deffence, if you choose to play without protection and wish have less spell interrupts on you for example) or you invest full skill in to wrestling to equip books, or mage weapon, or another weapon skill.

P.S.
It is hard but possible, but very very situationally.

P.P.S another pro tip/secret inside this screen, if you know you know.

Thank you for the reply.

You mention that Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types, does this mean that using a Mage Weapon without having the tactics skill will do hardly any damage, as we know that it is Eval Int that does damage for Magery spells and Tactics that does it for Warrior skills ?

You also say, that Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when I use spell chanell + mage weapon types but I was not interested in the damage from spells but, rather, in the damage from yielding and using the Mage "Weapon"...

In regards to the damage done when yielding and using a "Mage Weapon", in what way is the damage done factored in ?

Do Slayer Talismans work ? If the suit has Damage Increase, will this be factored in ?

And if the Mage using a Mage Weapon does not have any Tactics skill, but has Eval Int, how will the damage done yielding and using the Mage Weapon be calculated ?

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

- "Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types."

- "After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
(Slayers on weapon and tali works the same as for normal weapon)"

- "Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types."

I write examples how and why you use mage weapon even with screen of my build.

- "mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation".
- "you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics)".
 - "Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply".

Is it clear now ? Im not rude but you have to read before asking same questions, no offence.

Thank you, so, if I understand you correctly, a Mage Weapon does not make a Mage a Warrior by no means...

I mean, no real damage done for not having any Tactics skill and Eval Int not being factored in for the Mage Wedapon damage calculations, slow swinging for having low dexterity and stamina, no weapons specials, no damage increase as Mages do not usually have damage increase on their suits but have LRC, MR, Mana Increase and spellcasting properites rather then Warriors properties... and perhaps also the slayer damag on a Talisman does not apply to the Mage Weapon (certainly it does not for spells) ?

So, considering then, that only when holding in hand a spellbook, a slayer that might be on the spellbook applies to Magery spells, if the Mage is holding a Mage Weapon instead of the spellbook... "bye bye" to slayer bonus as well...

Bottom line is, I fail to see why Mage Weapons even exist, considering the very, but very limited help which they give to Mages yielding and using them.

Garret

popps said:

Garret said:

popps said:

Garret said:

  Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply, the difference only that you use magery for hit/deff calculation and almost every mage weapon decrease magery so you need compensate magery skill from skill bonuses and you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics).
  For example you have weapon with -15 magery and you have 100 real magery after you equip weapon your skill goes down to 85, if your target have 100 wepon skill for example it will not count you have 100 skill vs 100 skill it will count like you have 85 skill vs 100 skill so you have to equip bonus skill equipment (jewelrys mostly).
  If you have -0 mage weapon so no need skill bonus compentation.
  After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
  Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types.
  Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when you use spell chanell + mage weapon types.
   When you invest in to mage weapon it is hard to combine lrc/lmc/mr build with all melee caps that you require to fight properly so mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation, so you will have another layer of protection on your mage.
  With 0 weapon skill on character monsters will have 100% chance to hit you in melee range even if you have dci so there is choice (if you need another layer of deffence, if you choose to play without protection and wish have less spell interrupts on you for example) or you invest full skill in to wrestling to equip books, or mage weapon, or another weapon skill.

P.S.
It is hard but possible, but very very situationally.

P.P.S another pro tip/secret inside this screen, if you know you know.

Thank you for the reply.

You mention that Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types, does this mean that using a Mage Weapon without having the tactics skill will do hardly any damage, as we know that it is Eval Int that does damage for Magery spells and Tactics that does it for Warrior skills ?

You also say, that Slayer dmg from talisman and weapon will not add bonus dmg for spells when I use spell chanell + mage weapon types but I was not interested in the damage from spells but, rather, in the damage from yielding and using the Mage "Weapon"...

In regards to the damage done when yielding and using a "Mage Weapon", in what way is the damage done factored in ?

Do Slayer Talismans work ? If the suit has Damage Increase, will this be factored in ?

And if the Mage using a Mage Weapon does not have any Tactics skill, but has Eval Int, how will the damage done yielding and using the Mage Weapon be calculated ?

Basically, I am trying to understand whether and in what capacity a Mage Weapon permits a Mage to become a Warrior and do damage "as a Warrior", not as a Mage...

Thank you.

- "Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types."

- "After everything will be the same as melee, you need hit chance, you need Di, you need ssi for max swing, you need slayer, you need more str/tactics/anatomy to hit harder.
(Slayers on weapon and tali works the same as for normal weapon)"

- "Eval int will not give any bonuses for mage weapon types."

I write examples how and why you use mage weapon even with screen of my build.

- "mostly players use mage weapon for deffence calculation".
- "you will not be able to use special attacks of this type weapon (for specials you need only real weapon skill + tactics)".
 - "Mage weapon act like normal weapon, so all dmg bonuses is apply".

Is it clear now ? Im not rude but you have to read before asking same questions, no offence.

Thank you, so, if I understand you correctly, a Mage Weapon does not make a Mage a Warrior by no means...

I mean, no real damage done for not having any Tactics skill and Eval Int not being factored in for the Mage Wedapon damage calculations, slow swinging for having low dexterity and stamina, no weapons specials, no damage increase as Mages do not usually have damage increase on their suits but have LRC, MR, Mana Increase and spellcasting properites rather then Warriors properties... and perhaps also the slayer damag on a Talisman does not apply to the Mage Weapon (certainly it does not for spells) ?

So, considering then, that only when holding in hand a spellbook, a slayer that might be on the spellbook applies to Magery spells, if the Mage is holding a Mage Weapon instead of the spellbook... "bye bye" to slayer bonus as well...

Bottom line is, I fail to see why Mage Weapons even exist, considering the very, but very limited help which they give to Mages yielding and using them.

Every time u post you miss part of answer. I give you real examples why and when you can use it.

1. It is deffence layer  - les intterupts - less heal heeded
2. For equivalent of full weapon deffence option skill you need only compensate from 0 to 25 magery so you save up to 120 skill points.
3. Also if you invest a bit in gear and jewelry you can get fighter mage without special moves but decent melee hits for extra mana (mana leach) for examples.
4. Also weapons is able to have luck /mr (UP TO 9 MR) on it so it will help to boost ur build + defence layer.
5. You can combine fight phases so u equip book and spend a lot of mana for hard hit spells then you regen bonus mana with hit mana leach.

vortex

This can be easily tested yourself no need to ask...

Petra_Fyde

a small point:
Yield: to give up, as to superior power or authority:
Wield: to use (a weapon, instrument, etc.) effectively; handle or employ actively.

Pawain

Some tamers will use a mage bow on the Roof if they don't like to constantly cast.  Casting would do more damage, but you only have to push 1 button to keep shooting.

Urge

popps said:

I mean, no real damage done for not having any Tactics skill

Bottom line is, I fail to see why Mage Weapons even exist, considering the very, but very limited help which they give to Mages yielding and using them.

Dead wrong on this one. 

One of my dedicated navrey characters uses a -mage 100% fire, slayer, magical shortbow with hit fireball and mana leech. The character is a discord tamer with a fire beetle and enough stam/ss to hit max swing. 

Damage is 80 straight and 115 when everything procs. I wouldn't call that no real damage by any means. 

It's slightly OP if you know how to set it up. 

Grimbeard

Urge said:

popps said:

I mean, no real damage done for not having any Tactics skill

Bottom line is, I fail to see why Mage Weapons even exist, considering the very, but very limited help which they give to Mages yielding and using them.

Dead wrong on this one. 

One of my dedicated navrey characters uses a -mage 100% fire, slayer, magical shortbow with hit fireball and mana leech. The character is a discord tamer with a fire beetle and enough stam/ss to hit max swing. 

Damage is 80 straight and 115 when everything procs. I wouldn't call that no real damage by any means. 

It's slightly OP if you know how to set it up. 

The over under on how many paragraph popps will generate off this is 22

vortex

Grimbeard said:

Urge said:

popps said:

I mean, no real damage done for not having any Tactics skill

Bottom line is, I fail to see why Mage Weapons even exist, considering the very, but very limited help which they give to Mages yielding and using them.

Dead wrong on this one. 

One of my dedicated navrey characters uses a -mage 100% fire, slayer, magical shortbow with hit fireball and mana leech. The character is a discord tamer with a fire beetle and enough stam/ss to hit max swing. 

Damage is 80 straight and 115 when everything procs. I wouldn't call that no real damage by any means. 

It's slightly OP if you know how to set it up. 

The over under on how many paragraph popps will generate off this is 22

Put me down for $20 on over

Rorschach

Can I get in on that action?

KroDuK

popps said:

Bottom line is, I fail to see why Mage Weapons even exist, considering the very, but very limited help which they give to Mages yielding and using them.

                                 

I would drop 120 vet for 120 tactics, equip a Hit chance Ring/bracelet with HC and magery to compensate for the magery lost cuz of the mage weapon; 120 magery = 120 weapon skill.

I was using archery mage weapon with HC; dismount, AI or mortal strike stuff.. combine with a rune beetle and a unicorn.. it was a "one shot" build. using mage weapon



As of today, I could upgrade my old mage build.. with the OPness u can get.. before I was limited.. and my first thought would be to try a mage weapon build if I wanna play this mage.



I could get something else instead of fencing.. (the only thing i'd lost would be parrying.. sometime I would swap resist for parrying.. ex: when dueling a dexer.)

I was limited cuz I wanted HC/DC with certain mods on my weapons; like hit mana leech or hit spell dmg.. today I could totally get that with mage weapon.


Mage Weapon is a great tool giving you more options on your templates.

Urge

Rorschach said:

Can I get in on that action?

It's part of tomorrow's parlay on Draftkings.

Tim

Question I've always had but too lazy to look it up myself
If a character with the required skill will a mage weapon use that skill or mage skill?

Oreogl

Tim said:

Question I've always had but too lazy to look it up myself
If a character with the required skill will a mage weapon use that skill or mage skill?

I’ve always thought it deferred to the highest skill.

Grimbeard

I'm worried popps has been typing his response for 37 hours now...