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Improve Swing Speed Calculation

JawetzelJawetzel Posts: 6
edited February 16 in General Discussions
I wish UO calculated swing speed based off of a lower stat number than 30s. 

Right now it takes into account ssi and increments of 30 stam. I propose it use either 5 or 10 stam increments in the calculation.

A 4s swing speed weapon behaves in the following ways: 
Need 150 stam and 45 ssi for 1.75s swings
Need 120 stam and 55ssi for 1.75s swings 
Need 150 stam and 60ssi for 1.5s swings

The issue example: 
if you had 175 stam and 55ssi it would swing at 1.75s, when the math would say its clearly a 1.5s swing if stam rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10. instead of the nearest 30.

  1. Should UO use a lower increment in stamina numbers to calculate swing speed?9 votes
    1. Yes, use 5 Stamina Increments
      44.44%
    2. Yes, use 10 Stamina Increments
      22.22%
    3. No, this is not a good idea
      33.33%
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Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,572
    I have always wondered why Stamina amount needed to be so much higher than SSI to move up a notch.  I'm all for it recognizing smaller amounts of Stamina.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 16
    You shouldn't be able to reach max swing speed on 2 handers.. it makes the sampire a joke build.. and no sense for PvP.. if u wanna help them 2 hander boost their special ability dmg in PvE.

    A huge problem from this heresy OP'ness of all those items.. they need to work on that balance.

    A dagger hardcap swing speed is the same as a dbl axe? got it..
    The shield for a warrior (PvE TANK) is almost useless? got it..
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 416
    edited February 16
    would make the game feel a little more "mushy" if that makes sense.  i prefer to know what i need, get there, not have many options in between.  it would be a ton more calculations which means more lag for a game that already doesnt run great. 

    its really easy to hit the 60 ssi cap now, i wouldnt want to have that cap increased and have people running around with really low dext, max health massive manna.  is there even a cap for mana?  if i could have say 90 dex, id have 250 mana easy.  but one benefit to going over the 60 ssi cap is for mobs with cacophony overcap ssi can make up for some of the reduction.

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,581
    Smoot said:
    would make the game feel a little more "mushy" if that makes sense.  i prefer to know what i need, get there, not have many options in between.  it would be a ton more calculations which means more lag for a game that already doesnt run great. 

    its really easy to hit the 60 ssi cap now, i wouldnt want to have that cap increased and have people running around with really low dext, max health massive manna.  is there even a cap for mana?  if i could have say 90 dex, id have 250 mana easy.  but one benefit to going over the 60 ssi cap is for mobs with cacophony overcap ssi can make up for some of the reduction.

    There is a 251 cap on mana 
  • JawetzelJawetzel Posts: 6
    I think the concept here is getting missed in comments.

    I'm not saying weapons should be any faster or slower than they are.

    I'm saying I want the math to math more accurately. Going from 60 to 80 stam should show a swing speed increase if the math between the weapon speed, the SSI equipped, and the stam comes out to be 2.25s swing instead of 2.5s swing.
  • VioletViolet Posts: 424
    There is a reason swing speed is done at .25 second intervals.
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 416
    Grimbeard said:

    There is a 251 cap on mana 
    thx, i didnt know.  but if you could easily get that much mana, hit point increase should probably be increased too.  right now because you need it for dex keeps mana lower.

  • usernameusername Posts: 1,021
    edited February 18
    Violet said:
    There is a reason swing speed is done at .25 second intervals.
    Correct, likely a server fps (tick) rate. Aka this request is impossible without a complete rewrite of server/client code. I suppose the OP wouldn't know that as he doesn't use 1st party clients.
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
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  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    edited February 18
    Jawetzel said:
    I wish UO calculated swing speed based off of a lower stat number than 30s. 

    Right now it takes into account ssi and increments of 30 stam. I propose it use either 5 or 10 stam increments in the calculation.

    A 4s swing speed weapon behaves in the following ways: 
    Need 150 stam and 45 ssi for 1.75s swings
    Need 120 stam and 55ssi for 1.75s swings 
    Need 150 stam and 60ssi for 1.5s swings

    The issue example: 
    if you had 175 stam and 55ssi it would swing at 1.75s, when the math would say its clearly a 1.5s swing if stam rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10. instead of the nearest 30.


    I'm not sure what you're asking for here. When I do the math for 175 stam and 55 ssi on a 4s weapon by hand I get the following.

    Formula from UOGuide: ((Base Weapon Speed - Stamina Ticks) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase))) = "x" ticks

    4s x 4 = 16 tick base speed
    175 / 30 = 5.833 stamina ticks
    16 - 5.833 = 10.167
    100 / (100 + 55) = 0.645
    10.167 * 0.645 = 6.557

    6.5 ticks is 1.5 second swing speed, so since it's over that threshold by a little bit, it goes up to 1.75 seconds. Which seems to be the case. I don't understand how "the math would say its clearly a 1.5s swing if stam rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10."

    Can you post the exact formula you wish it used instead?

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,572
    edited February 18
    I haven't done formulas, but the OP is correct, you put stamina in a calculator and the next faster level will not occur until you increase the stamina by 30.   Not 25, not 29.

    Violet verifies that it cant be changed because of the game mechanics limitations.  So, we are stuck with it.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18
    The problem with Nythrax formula is he ain't round the numbers down.. the client do not keep a flag on "complex" fraction.. it simplify; by rounding down.. like with strength does .5 but here .25

    Edit: I could be wrong (high fever, here)  :s
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    edited February 18
    KroDuK said:
    The problem with Nythrax formula is he ain't round the numbers down.. the client do not keep a flag on "complex" fraction.. it simplify; by rounding down.. like with strength does .5 but here .25

    Edit: I could be wrong (high fever, here)  :s

    It's not a "complex fraction" but rather a plain old decimal. I don't know how many decimal places the client uses internally but since my result matches the same 1.75s the game itself produces there doesn't seem to be any "problem" at all.

    You don't need to post if you don't have anything to say.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,572
     :D 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    Pawain said:
    I haven't done formulas, but the OP is correct, you put stamina in a calculator and the next faster level will not occur until you increase the stamina by 30.   Not 25, not 29.

    Violet verifies that it cant be changed because of the game mechanics limitations.  So, we are stuck with it.

    Yeah but he also says he doesn't want speeds to increase across the board, nor does he make any reference to speeds that don't break down into .25s increments. He seems to think the above scenario should result in 1.5s rather than 1.75s for some reason. So it's just really unclear what he even wants. lol
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,572
    I never really paid attention to the Whys,  but I have noticed that Stamina needed to increase a lot vs SSI to make a change.  Now I know why and the magic number 30.

    This brings us to why the Paladin sword is 5s!   You can not get fastest speed on 4.25 and above.

    It works great as a WW weapon but it is sooo slow.  
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18

    I'm not sure what you're asking for here. When I do the math for 175 stam and 55 ssi on a 4s weapon by hand I get the following.

    Formula from UOGuide: ((Base Weapon Speed - Stamina Ticks) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase))) = "x" ticks

    4s x 4 = 16 tick base speed
    175 / 30 = 5.833 stamina ticks
    16 - 5.833 = 10.167
    100 / (100 + 55) = 0.645
    10.167 * 0.645 = 6.557

    6.5 ticks is 1.5 second swing speed, so since it's over that threshold by a little bit, it goes up to 1.75 seconds. Which seems to be the case. I don't understand how "the math would say its clearly a 1.5s swing if stam rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10."

    Can you post the exact formula you wish it used instead?

    ((Base Weapon Speed - Stamina Ticks) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase))) = "x" ticks

    BWS: 4x4= 16                                                100 / (100+55) = .645
    ST: 5

    16-5= 11

    so 11 * 0.645= 7/4 = 1.75..


    so your 1.63 swing speed... is actually 1.75. without even rounding anything else DOWN.

    Be polite MOFO, I was trying to help your dumb dumb math skill, that could have been confusing for others that actually read and consider a Trammy SampieTard.. even high fever i can see it was non sense..

    Paiwan is such a Beta ^^
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • JawetzelJawetzel Posts: 6
    edited February 18
    So heres my confusion, I'm looking at uoguide formula 
    ((Base Weapon Speed - Stamina Ticks) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase)))

    it outputs the following numbers: 

    4s wep/150 stamina/60% SSI = 1.719 seconds
    4s wep/175 stamina/55% SSI = 1.640 seconds

    when i look at the results from the uoguide or the stratics calculator (im assuming they are both actually using the stratics formula where a Floor is applied 
    Floor((Weapon Speed - Floor(Stamina/30)) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase % item bonus))) / 4

    this calculation outputs 

    4s wep/150 stamina/60% SSI = 1.5 seconds
    4s wep/175 stamina/55% SSI = 1.75 seconds

    Based on the numbers, I would expect 175 stam and 55 ssi to be just as fast, if not faster than 150stam and 60 ssi, and thats what I would like to see change.  

    if that means slowing down the 150 down to 1.75 and making them both 1.75 - I'm just wanting the system to make intuitive sense. 
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18
    Jawetzel said:
    4s wep/150 stamina/60% SSI = 1.5 seconds

    Have u try the calculator.. u'd need 180 stam with the 60% to reach 1.5..
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • JawetzelJawetzel Posts: 6
    KroDuK said:
    Jawetzel said:
    4s wep/150 stamina/60% SSI = 1.5 seconds

    Have u try the calculator.. u'd need 180 stam with the 60% to reach 1.5..
    stratics: 
    https://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/combat.php

    150 stam > 4s weapon > 60 ssi - outputs 1.5s speed 

    uoguide 
    https://www.uoguide.com/Swing_Speed

    choose soul glaive > 60 ssi > 150 stam - outputs 1.5s speed

    Knuckleheads 
    https://www.knuckleheads.dk/tools/ssi

    choose soul glaive > 60 ssi > 150 stam - outputs 1.5s speed
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    Weird.. try the halberd (another 4s)
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18
    I think u pinpoint the problem.

    Ok, i've look at the gargoyle passive.. maybe this is the problem we ain't considering, while the calculator does.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • JawetzelJawetzel Posts: 6
    KroDuK said:
    Weird.. try the halberd (another 4s)
    I think uo guide thinks its 4.25
    • Halberd base swing speed is 4.25 seconds, or 17 ticks.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18
    Is it? ok I give up i'm too sick for this poo poo.. but keep digging. (cuz i look on uo guide it says 4 seconds for halberd)

    Edit: something sure.. no 2 hander should reach maximum speed (heresy).. except the range weapon.. it would be a nice step forward for a better balance.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    edited February 18
    KroDuK said:
    so your 1.63 swing speed... is actually 1.75. without even rounding anything else DOWN.

    Be polite MOFO, I was trying to help your dumb dumb math skill, that could have been confusing for others that actually read and consider a Trammy SampieTard.. even high fever i can see it was non sense..

    Paiwan is such a Beta ^^

    In other words it ends up at the same 1.75s regardless, you just wanted to post it all again while rounding the numbers off because you bet that's how the engine does it and you love posting worthless drivel. Okay.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18
    If u take the time to do the formula by hand like a big boy.. use the correct value.. u just added more confusion.. me and @Jawetzel prove we work better without your BAD math.

    The result mean nothing if u can't do the formula.. I lost all consideration I had for you.. you are no better than Paiwan.. Micro P energy.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    Jawetzel said:
    Based on the numbers, I would expect 175 stam and 55 ssi to be just as fast, if not faster than 150stam and 60 ssi, and thats what I would like to see change.  

    if that means slowing down the 150 down to 1.75 and making them both 1.75 - I'm just wanting the system to make intuitive sense. 

    The amount of time deducted from your swing for every 30 stamina is 0.25s, which is already the smallest amount of time the game can process. There's nowhere else to go, no smaller amount of time that could be deducted for smaller amounts of stamina.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 18
    Jawetzel said:
    KroDuK said:
    Weird.. try the halberd (another 4s)
    I think uo guide thinks its 4.25
    • Halberd base swing speed is 4.25 seconds, or 17 ticks.
    weird, but I believe you.. I try with a composite bow (4s) to end up at 1.5 like your soul glaive. (not affected by gargoyle passive.) for your 150 stam and 60 SS on a 4s range weapon.

    They did a Nythrax even on the calculation page on uo guide..




    Only the all swordmanship weapon shows 4.25s. (with lower dmg)


    At 4.25 speed the formula I end up at 1.935.. I round DOWN at 1.75??.. (unlike Nytro with his 1.63 lvl at 1.75) for 55 SS and 175 stam. Something is off and i'm too sick to figure it out.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    KroDuK said:
    If u take the time to do the formula by hand like a big boy.. use the correct value.. u just added more confusion.. me and @ Jawetzel prove we work better without your BAD math.

    The result mean nothing if u can't do the formula.. I lost all consideration I had for you.. you are no better than Paiwan.. Micro P energy.

    My math is completely correct. Obviously there's no such thing as a partial tick as far as the game engine is concerned, but the point of running the numbers without trimming any decimals is that it still generates the correct result.

    Also, a halberd is in fact 4s with 18 - 21 damage. Try logging in and mousing over one. Everything you've been posting is worthless gibberish, as usual. Just a bunch of complete meaningless drivel about gargoyle racials and incorrect weapon speeds so you can pretend you're doing something complex or useful. If you want to entertain the rest of us, try another video of your trash pally struggling to kill basic mobs.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 943
    edited February 19
                                                                    
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to play/automate the game.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 582
    edited February 19
    Congrats on your first-ever post with no horrifying spelling or grammar mistakes. I wouldn't have thought you had it in you. By the way, I know you haven't felt clear-headed enough to solve this baffling mathematical conundrum yet, so let me give you a little spoiler: Everything works exactly as it's supposed to and you're just really dumb. Hope that helps.
This discussion has been closed.