various "clean" items inablility to PoF & Antique items vs repair/PoF.

CovenantX

"Clean" items which are unable to use PoF (Powder of Fortifying) on the item.

Rings, Bracelets, Clothing & Talismans.  (only applies if the item has Durability)

irregardless of the aforementioned items not displaying [Replica] or [Brittle] cannot have Powder of fortifying applied to them. (Clean & Antique)  Fix please!

Anything not on the list above spawning without the negative properties are functioning properly as they should it, justifies the rarity of such items.

Bug 2 - Antique items are able to have Powder of Fortifying applied, but you're penalized by using it more than you would be by repairing the item via repair deed or by repairing it using the appropriate skill & crafting tool.

Example:

Antique Item starts with 255/255, wears down to 0/249, successful "repair" = 248/248

Antique Item starts with 255/255, wears down to 0/249, one PoF application = 200/200

What exactly is the point in that?

Is it intended?

Faeryl

Per UOguide on the Antique property:

"It can have Powder of Fortifying applied 3 times. Each powder will set the max durability to 250 then 200 and finally 150 after each use."

It is intentional. As for reason, I'm not entirely sure. Likely because antique items are supposed to be old and worn down... more likely to break with prolonged use.

Also, just have to point this out because it makes me cringe... irregardless is not a word.

Mervyn

Yes Covenant, are you having a day off?

can you give examples of the items that you found that cannot be PoFed? Because if you’re talking about vvv items/jewels, I beleive they are excempt from being able to be PoFed.

DJAd

Lots of the new artifacts have no tags (brittle, imbued etc.) but cannot be POF'd. Cameo being one example I can think off. Other artifacts (protector of the battle mage) CAN be POF'd along with many others. It's very inconsistent and shouldn't be. Quite often you see jewels on vendor search with the description "can POF and last forever". How confusing is that to new or even returning players. 

Mervyn

i tell you what is an issue for PoFing antique items, and that is resale. If you purchase from another player a damaged antique piece of equipment. You have no way of knowing if it has been PoFed once, twice, three times a lady. 

Mervyn

So Enchantress’ Cameo cannot be PoFed, this is the bug we are reporting, any more specific items?

DJAd

Mervyn said:

So Enchantress’ Cameo cannot be PoFed, this is the bug we are reporting, any more specific items?

I think most of the new artifacts are "clean" but cannot have POF applied. Many of the shadowguard ones (if not all) and I'm not sure about the doom drops. They either need to add the brittle tag or allow them to be powdered to maintain consistency.

CovenantX

Mervyn said:

i tell you what is an issue for PoFing antique items, and that is resale. If you purchase from another player a damaged antique piece of equipment. You have no way of knowing if it has been PoFed once, twice, three times a lady. 

 You're right, what I'm saying is, even if the item reaches 10/75, if you powder it at that point regardless if it has EVER had powder applied to it before, it then becomes 25/25, whereas if you just repair the item it would become 74/74, there's no reason to ever apply powder of fort to Antique items.

I guess the antique thing doesn't really matter though, because no one uses Antique items that can be PoF'd anyway.  #1 would have to be fixed for #2 to apply. (Jewelry)

as for "Clean"I was referring to artifacts like the ones from Shadowguard, Corgul (soulbinder ring), Scalis (coral bracelet), and any jewelry you find randomly in corpse loot that's "Clean" ie not Brittle, not cannot be repaired (which doesn't spawn anymore), not imbued etc.

this would also include future artifacts that drop as the same item types, if the items have durability.

Mervyn

So coral bracelet and soulbinder ring cannot be PoFed, we’re adding this to the list. As for shadowguard items, please can we be more specific? (there is already another thread where some specific items are missing the self repair description https://forum.uo.com/discussion/987/self-repair-description-missing-on-some-roof-encounter-artifacts#latest)

and i I have not come across any clean loot items that cannot be PoFed. Perhaps if you can post some pics.

CovenantX

Mervyn said:

So Enchantress’ Cameo cannot be PoFed, this is the bug we are reporting, any more specific items?

Specific items & places they originate.

Shadowguard Artifacts:

Wamaps bone Earrings  (earrings)

Ozymandias' Obi (Obi)

Anon's Boots (Leather Boots)

Shanty's Waders (Thigh boots)

Hawkwind's Robe (Robe)

Jumu's Sacred Hide (Cloak)

Enchantress' Cameo (Talisman)

Totem of the Tribe (Talisman)

Minax's Sandals (Sandals)

Corgul the Soulbinder Artifacts:

Ring of the Soulbinder (Ring)

Scalis Artifacts:

Enchanted Coral Bracelet (Bracelet)

SA Artifacts:

Mystic's Garb (Gargish Robe)

SA Mini spawn Artifacts:

Demon Bridle Ring (Ring)

Token of Holy Favor (bracelet)

Covetous Artifacts:

Bracelet of Protection (Bracelet)

Doom Artifacts:

Bracelet of Primal Consumption (Bracelet)

Items generated via random loot generator.

Ring   ("Clean" all directions & types)

Bracelet ("Clean" all directions & types)

I'll post more if I remember or find something I missed.

DJAd

Mervyn said:

and i I have not come across any clean loot items that cannot be PoFed. Perhaps if you can post some pics.

Clean loot armour is working (can POF). Clean jewels you cannot. 

It's more the newer artifacts as covenant has listed. I'm not sure about the new doom artifacts (scholars halo etc.)

The_Higgs_1

Pls fix this so I don't have to hear @CovenantX complain about it anymore.  He goes on endless rants.   LOLOL

Petra_Fyde

Bug 2 is not a bug, it's user error.
PoF is not meant to be used in place of repairs.
You should repair the item until it reaches a point where it won't last long enough for a play session. Say 60/60? THEN you apply PoF taking it back up to 200/200. Repair until it reaches too low to play with again, PoF to 150/150

CovenantX

Petra_Fyde said:

Bug 2 is not a bug, it's user error.
PoF is not meant to be used in place of repairs.
You should repair the item until it reaches a point where it won't last long enough for a play session. Say 60/60? THEN you apply PoF taking it back up to 200/200. Repair until it reaches too low to play with again, PoF to 150/150

So, you confirmed bug 2 is a bug, because it doesn't work the way you're saying it does..

if an Antique item reaches 60/60, you apply PoF to the item (for the very first time) the antique item then becomes 10/10. There is no point in which the antique item "reverts" from a lower maximum durability to a higher maximum Ever.

The patch notes suggest it should work as you describe, which would be 60/60 item should then become 200/200 (it actually goes to 250/250 (from 255/255)) on the first PoF application, 150/150 second, 100/100 third and final, since Antique items are only able to have PoF applied three times,

The only part of the patch notes that is correct is that you can only apply PoF 3x to an antique item.

if it's working as intended that would be another failure to communicate and/or a major disappointment.

However, when there are inconsistencies in the way things work, these kinds of failures will happen frequently.  - The Devs are setting themselves up for it, it also disappoints the players because they should be able to assume properties work the same way regardless of which items spawn with it.

Bug #1 would have to be fixed for bug #2 to be relevant, is solely because the only "Antique" items people use are jewelry.

Mervyn

CovenantX said:

Petra_Fyde said:

Bug 2 is not a bug, it's user error.
PoF is not meant to be used in place of repairs.
You should repair the item until it reaches a point where it won't last long enough for a play session. Say 60/60? THEN you apply PoF taking it back up to 200/200. Repair until it reaches too low to play with again, PoF to 150/150

So, you confirmed bug 2 is a bug, because it doesn't work the way you're saying it does..

if an Antique item reaches 60/60, you apply PoF to the item (for the very first time) the antique item then becomes 10/10. There is no point in which the antique item "reverts" from a lower maximum durability to a higher maximum Ever.

The patch notes suggest it should work as you describe, which would be 60/60 item should then become 200/200 (it actually goes to 250/250 (from 255/255)) on the first PoF application, 150/150 second, 100/100 third and final, since Antique items are only able to have PoF applied three times,

The only part of the patch notes that is correct is that you can only apply PoF 3x to an antique item.

if it's working as intended that would be another failure to communicate and/or a major disappointment.

However, when there are inconsistencies in the way things work, these kinds of failures will happen frequently.  - The Devs are setting themselves up for it, it also disappoints the players because they should be able to assume properties work the same way regardless of which items spawn with it.

Bug #1 would have to be fixed for bug #2 to be relevant, is solely because the only "Antique" items people use are jewelry.

I just tested this and can confirm that PoF is not working as intended for antique items, I wore an antique weapon down from 255/255 to 0/192, applied PoF for the first time and resulted in durability 150/150????

Expected result: for the weapon to show durability of 250/250.

I recommend nobody use PoF on any antique items at all at the moment.

Apologies Covenant for not analysing your initial post describing the problem. I got boggled by the numbers.

Mervyn

Bump,

this one is real serious. 

CovenantX

Bump, Is this ever going to get fixed?

Paithan

@Bleak @Mesanna

CovenantX

@Bleak @Mesanna @Kyronix ;

Two "bug-fix publishes" have gone by both 1 & 2 are still broken.

Archangel

*bump

Mervyn

Regarding PoFing antique items, I'm sorry to say it may be easier to just not allow PoFing of antique items at all.

Because allowing 3 pofs, one at 250, second to 200, and last to 150 as originally intended, you're introducing a new problem, of the owner (or buyer) needing to know how many times the item has already been PoFed.
They're reluctant to add new properties to items (this is the reason they gave for not displaying inherent lower mana cost bonus on non medable armour)
So this is something that i can't see being fixed at least in the short term. 

However there's no reason why Jewelry shouldn't also spawn as Brittle, and be able to PoF non Brittle/Antique jewelry. 

Aragorn

Mervyn said:

Regarding PoFing antique items, I'm sorry to say it may be easier to just not allow PoFing of antique items at all.

Because allowing 3 pofs, one at 250, second to 200, and last to 150 as originally intended, you're introducing a new problem, of the owner (or buyer) needing to know how many times the item has already been PoFed.

You mean if the item is sold at 100/100, you don't know if you apply the powder will it take it back to 150 or 200 or 250, if the system is working as intended? well, I would say in that case don't buy the item if you are skeptical, and only buy a item with max durability > 250. Because only item with max durability > 250 means the item has never been powdered. And for seller better don't repair the item which make the durability drop below 250 otherwise it will lose some market value as less people are willing to buy it. 

Mervyn said:

They're reluctant to add new properties to items (this is the reason they gave for not displaying inherent lower mana cost bonus on non medable armour)
So this is something that i can't see being fixed at least in the short term. 

Well, for weapon we have Last parry chance added (and without anyone asking?) not long ago (compare to the history of UO)  I don't think it's actually difficult to add some description if they want to. Just put it at the end and ppl won't be confused with description and actual item property.

Mervyn said:

However there's no reason why Jewelry shouldn't also spawn as Brittle, and be able to PoF non Brittle/Antique jewelry. 

I think Jewelry was meant to be non powder-able, I know many jewelry can be powdered right now but I tend to believe it's more a bug rather than the intended behavior. So technically there is no brittle jewelry as jewelry itself is brittle by default, and the reason why currently there is no brittle spawn jewelry. 
 

Balin_Wingnut

CovenantX said:

"Clean" items which are unable to use PoF (Powder of Fortifying) on the item.

Rings, Bracelets, Clothing & Talismans.  (only applies if the item has Durability)

irregardless of the aforementioned items not displaying [Replica] or [Brittle] cannot have Powder of fortifying applied to them. (Clean & Antique)  Fix please!

Anything not on the list above spawning without the negative properties are functioning properly as they should it, justifies the rarity of such items.

Bug 2 - Antique items are able to have Powder of Fortifying applied, but you're penalized by using it more than you would be by repairing the item via repair deed or by repairing it using the appropriate skill & crafting tool.

Example:

Antique Item starts with 255/255, wears down to 0/249, successful "repair" = 248/248

Antique Item starts with 255/255, wears down to 0/249, one PoF application = 200/200

What exactly is the point in that?

Is it intended?

All of that is intended. They want items to wear out otherwise there's no point to you ever having to farm them again. SO certain items like rings and talisman and a few others do wear out.

Also that's how POF works for antique items. Check this link 
 https://www.uoguide.com/Antique

Balin_Wingnut

CovenantX said:

@ Bleak @ Mesanna @ Kyronix 

Two "bug-fix publishes" have gone by both 1 & 2 are still broken.

CovenantX said:

Bump, Is this ever going to get fixed? 

Dude its intended. Just check Uoguide. A simple google would have told you thats how they are supposed to work. 

https://www.uoguide.com/Antique

From Uoguide.com page on Powder of Fortifying:

PoF does not work on all items with the Durability item property. UO Community Coordinator Jeremy explained the rationale for the immunity:

"We intend for these items to drop for a while, but don't want to flood the market with them - making them unfortifyable means that they will, eventually, get destroyed if used.... Otherwise, we'd have stacks of them lying around the bank....

This is not a precursor to taking out Powder of Fortification, as some people are speculating.... This is just a means of managing the rarity of these particular items in the game." FoF 9/21/07

• PoF does not work on the Book of Truth event reward, The Redeemer.
• PoF does not work on the Virtue Artifacts.
• PoF does not work on Jewelry.
• PoF does not work on imbued or brittle items.
• PoF does not stack (so collecting it can start taking up alot of bank space).
• PoF can only be applied 3 times to items with the Antique property. Each powder will set the max durability to 250 then 200 and finally 150 after each use.

So of course its not fixed in "2 bug fix publishes". Its not a bug. The devs aren't incompetent, you just didn't bother to make a simple google search.

Balin_Wingnut

Last comment I swear: those artifacts aren't supposed to be POF'able. Cuz they don't want to flood the game with 'em. 5 years from now they want people still going farm Shadowguard cuz the the items wear down and need to be replaced. This keeps the economy from getting to the point where those items are just everywhere cuz every single one that spawned is still in use.

Mervyn

Balin_Wingnut said:

• PoF can only be applied 3 times to items with the Antique property. Each powder will set the max durability to 250 then 200 and finally 150 after each use.

So of course its not fixed in "2 bug fix publishes". Its not a bug. The devs aren't incompetent, you just didn't bother to make a simple google search.

This part I can confirm is not working as intended.

BTW Your source reference UOguide is written by players. (I can edit it to say that PoF is supposed to work on this or that if you want...)

I can also confirm that bugs remain over 2 publishes. I am unable to comment on the dev’s competency.

CovenantX

Balin_Wingnut said:

CovenantX said:

@ Bleak @ Mesanna @ Kyronix 

Two "bug-fix publishes" have gone by both 1 & 2 are still broken.

.So of course its not fixed in "2 bug fix publishes". Its not a bug. The devs aren't incompetent, you just didn't bother to make a simple google search.

   Just so you understand, many shadowguard artifacts are PoF-able, the ones that aren't last forever anyway because they auto-repair to 255/255, so there's never a need for pof (I kinda like that better tbh) but it shouldn't be that way anyway, It's bad design.  

There goes the logic of 'flooding the market', Also, these items prices have been going up pretty much since they've come out.  I guess the market cannot be flooded enough.

the Antique+PoF part is definitely a bug, testing it (like I did) would prove it to you.

I also wouldn't take everything you read on UOguide as accurate, clearly some of the edits were done by people that do no testing as well.

Mervyn

I’ve only known Covenant from forums, from his posts. He is the most knowledgeable person I know on uo game mechanics (current staff members included).

Yoshi

"I was asked to revisit this after players visiting both uoguide and the official wiki complained to me about the (mis)information given on the antique property.

Official documentation states antique as

"Increased durability loss, can be powdered 3 times (excluding jewelry, which cannot be powdered). Each powder will reduce max durability to 250, 200, and 150 respectively. Can be repaired."

Just to clarify,

Currently you cannot apply PoF to jewellery. Currently you can apply PoF one time (not 3)  to antique weapons/armor only if the durability on it exceeds /150. However, do not do this, as you will in effect lose durability,

[Image shows Before PoFing and after PoFing (loss of overall durability)]

Attempting to apply a powder to an item that is below /150 durability will give the following error even if PoF has not been used on it at all before:

(Please note, since the return of uoguide i have been unable to login to the wiki to edit)

Either the official wiki needs to be corrected or this should be recognised as not working as intended.

My suggestion is to simply not allow antique items to be PoFed at all"

quickblade

I think they messed up when they implemented this , instead of making the armor goes from exemple : 0/203 , first pof it should go to 250/250 but instead, it goes down one layer down to 200/200

Yoshi

"no, as demonstrated above, at 221, goes down to 150/150, not 200/200, and can only do it one time"