boring and unbalanced pvp

ezikel

the pvp has become big anything. the splintering weapons should not be able to be combined with focus attack or have a timer on the splintering because getting hit 5 6 times in a short time is crazy. impossible to avoid. can be removed with healing but it does not heal then your almost on dying. so you think you play my game with parry but it causes another problem now the dexxer are no longer able to kill anyone. After that there are the 4/6 greater heal at the speed of small heal, remove curse instant and remove any what a poison the first time.the tamer who is not worth anything in pvp, a fart that is almost no damage and once on foot is a target too easy to kill.bushido mage with evade, already too strong he can evade the drop of 6 person see more he should have a maximum

Mervyn

so every template is overpowered?
the pvp scene is fairly balanced at the moment. There are so many different valid templates being used on the field.

Splintering is tough yes, on another thread someone suggested it should not proc with any special (not just disarm) I quite like that idea. But only because I don’t like complications in game mechanics as it gives new/returning players a huge disadvantage when there’s so much the elite old guard know.

as for F.C. 4/6 chivalry, they can heal yes but they don’t ever kill anyone, well not alone anyway.

ezikel

I do not think he is overpower but I think he has some point corrected. the splintering that annoys me more is proc procrastin times in a short time, that when you heal with healing it removes only the bleed and that the% be augments with focus. for parry it is more the difference between parry, without parry and dexxer that finds balancing badly.with my archer I touch almost all at once someone without parry, mage weapons or skill and a player with parry I touch it can be 1 of 10.

The_Higgs_1

My buddies and I have posted a lot about the nerfing of wrestling/anatomy with parry.  It shouldn't be allowed in today's UO due to the ridiculous gear.   As for splintering, it shouldn't proc with any  special which includes focus attack and if the player is in form as well.  I mean the Glenda can no longer proc with those why does splintering.   The super high loot with people going to 840 skill points is just wrecking the game in pvp and should have a skill point cap or allow people to add the skills without needing ridiculous gear.   Like 95% of all mages are either wrestle parry with ninja or they are bushido parry mages.   Its due to parry being OP in pvp, but at least you can disarm the bushido guys.  I also think the no dachi needs nerfing as well.

Mervyn

i thibk if they got rid of wrestle parry mages, there would be a danger that no matter how skilled a mage, and no matter what template, they could lose to a warrior. This would not be good for the game, if someone has invested 120 skill and 80 dex to parrying, let them be strong against warriors. It’s a paper scissors rock issue. 

I have a parry mage, but it’s not my main. I think that explains it enough.

And what is wrong with no dachi? If you get riding swiped in the first place, you failed to dismount yourself. The clue is with the guy with a big sword running towards you. It’s fairly easily remedied even if you do get hit. 

ezikel

I do not think Parry is the problem, maybe it's more gear but it's too late to change. the world uses parry because a dexxer will touch you 7 8 out of 10. I wanted to play without but I spend my time disarm, bleed, slow walk or dismount. it is true that no-dachi should be reviewed healer full life is not the best idea. a nightmare ta only drop it 100 hp and it's over. would be better heal the same number of grooming received with the no-dachi or after some time you can remounth. splintering with a special move is ok.more than the fact that it procs so easily and several times that causes problem.

The_Higgs_1

That's the point mervyn is that they "could" lose to a warrior.  Right now unless your a complete moron you cant die on a parry mage to a warrior.  Basically the definition of unbalanced.   The warrior runs parry with bushido and can be disarmed to open up his defense.  The wrestle parry char is invulnerable to any of it and keeps high defense all the time.  Its the stupidest thing ever and I don't understand how it hasn't been nerfed yet.

Mervyn

Well, i know warriors are not as simple as they used to be, but a good mage should always be able to beat a good warrior, simply because there's more skill to playing a mage than a warrior. Especially if they've built their whole template to have 80 dex and 120 parry.

Lynk

Pvp is very balanced right now, every template has a counter . There isnt any OP offense that cant be stopped and there isnt any OP defense that cant be beat.  Closest defense is 4/6 chiv and splint lp can beat it.

Splint is not overpowered.  

You can tell that pvp is balanced vecause of the template diversity visible in any fight.

The only OP thing i could be swayed on is evasion, but even that i wouldnt want nerfed because of skill point investment required to get the effectiveness.  

Id like to preface a stfu warshak you dont know what youre talking about for any of his potential responses.

ezikel

link, That's why everyone plays a bush-mage. That's why I am one of them. They have the best defense and the best attack. No mage can kill them and dexxer have to be lucky to kill one. 4/6 Chiv cure dp too easily and too fast. splintering alone is not op but more the combination of focus attack and splintering .and the number of times it procs in a short time. also 120 healing should not only remove bleed but heal too

Lynk

Everyone plays a bush mage?  By your offensive comment I can only think you're talking about bokuto mages capable of nerve striking.  I can think of at least 4 people that play a mystic wrestle shield bashing parry mage.  I can think of about 4 others that main on a swords/poisoning mage.  I can think of at least 3 people that primarily play wrestle/parry/weaving/ninja mages.

Also, any offensive bushido parry mage (whether nerve striking, necro, or myst variant) you cannot fit ninjitsu, which leaves you very vulnerable in outnumbered situations.  When numbers are fairly even or even tilted in your favor, then yes bokuto mages are one of the better builds.  When I'm fighting heavily outnumbered I'd much prefer my weaving/ninjitsu mage all day long. 

There is pretty significant template variety in PvP today.  You can't argue against that.

The_Higgs_1

LOL everyone has parry to avoid bein splintered but yet splinter isn't OP.  OSI pvp is dead has been dead for couple years at least, due to being boxed into basically one of three templates.  Not to mention its zerg or no fights no matter what shard u play on.  Too many egos and no skill in pvp anymore.

Bilbo

The_Higgs_1 said:

LOL everyone has parry to avoid bein splintered but yet splinter isn't OP.  OSI pvp is dead has been dead for couple years at least, due to being boxed into basically one of three templates.  Not to mention its zerg or no fights no matter what shard u play on.  Too many egos and no skill in pvp anymore.

Well I would hope that OSI pvp is dead considering that they closed their doors in 2004 but playing on a free shard all the time I guess you wouldn't know that now would you.

The_Higgs_1

Lol first post in a month and immediately trolled by Bilbo.  Imagine that!!

Cookie

The_Higgs_1 said:

LOL everyone has parry to avoid bein splintered but yet splinter isn't OP.  OSI pvp is dead has been dead for couple years at least, due to being boxed into basically one of three templates.  Not to mention its zerg or no fights no matter what shard u play on.  Too many egos and no skill in pvp anymore.

I'm just going to re-confirm my belief that most people had parry to avoid dismount, not splinter.

Splinter is annoying, but in itself doesn't get you ganked by 5 players in under 1 second. Dismount does, this is the reason everyone takes parry.

Dismount, Splinter, Mortal, Bleed, Deathstrike, Lethal Poison - all at the same time by 5 dexxers, is a bit of a downer tbh, no-one enjoys being wiped out in the blink of an eye by that type of combination just because you were stuck on foot and therefore a sitting duck. When Dismount was just confined to Bolas it was ok - now it is on every pvp weapon type special, it is way too much, and performed way too fast.

I will stop commenting on pvp, because I've now quit, as have most of my team by the looks of it. It's just not fun anymore. No-one can tell me how balanced it is because based on my personal experience, no-one I know pvp's anymore - and we had a large active pvp team, who used to have fun. I've been doing my best to get the message across, but it's time up now.

And If I'm not pvping, I'm not really interested In the game anymore. Maybe it's the summer, maybe it's the world cup, maybe my life has just got more fun, luckily I have found a personal answer, I do now play Siege and enjoy it, it is more old-school UO.

So overall, while I think the OP's post was muddled up, I agree with him, it is a mess.

Mervyn

I will say, it’s fairly unnecessary for splintering to both bleed and slow, should probably just slow. 

The_Higgs_1

Dismount to was never a big deal and I can easily survive dismounts.  Only time dismount is an issue is when you being ganked and when your being ganked it doesn't matter what they use.  Everyone right now either has a shield or a splintering weapon, nothing else is being used.  I hardly see archers or throwers anymore either.  I havnt seen pvp more unbalanced in my entire time in UO other then when the game first started and everything was buggy.   Its just boring and repetitive to fight the same exact thing over and over again.   And in the past few years with the drop in population its the same people on every shard you fight, no one new or different is around.  So much needs to be looked at in pvp to make it worthwhile again, if only they would listen to their intelligent players.

CovenantX

Lynk said:

Also, any offensive bushido parry mage (whether nerve striking, necro, or myst variant) you cannot fit ninjitsu, which leaves you very vulnerable in outnumbered situations. 

There is pretty significant template variety in PvP today.  You can't argue against that.

   There's a decent variety in pvp Mage templates, yes.  not really much variety in dexer templates.  the reason for that would be, Mages can more reliably interrupt other mages, due to much less RNG being involved.

 Parry doesn't stop mages from killing each other, at least not even close to the extent it does when going against a dexer.

Mervyn said:

Well, i know warriors are not as simple as they used to be, but a good mage should always be able to beat a good warrior, simply because there's more skill to playing a mage than a warrior. Especially if they've built their whole template to have 80 dex and 120 parry.

 

  the point is a good mage (Without parry) can already beat a good dexer more often than not.

 you factor parry, the dexer might as well not play UO (judging by the decline in "Dexer" players is evident of that) unless they have more people to counter-balance against a parry-mages defense.   (I can't tell you the last time I saw a solo player, let alone a solo dexer....)

 Get rid of Casting Focus (or at bare minimum change what it does) and the portion of your post talking about "Skill" would hold more weight.  Skill & RNG are pretty much complete opposites of one another.   Seems contradictory to me.

Drop Parry chance down to 20% (from 35%) for Wrestle + Parry & Anatomy + Eval-int + Parry (because they will Always have a hand free for potions, unlike any other character with Parry).

They'd be great steps in the right direction for pvp to make a comeback, that's assuming we're not beyond the point of no return already....

 Btw, Splintering wasn't really an issue (aside from Duration, which was fixed mind you) until it spawned on more weapon types (shame-loot & Global loot)  Which coincidentally is how casters gained access to it... just thought I'd throw that out there.

ezikel

CovenantX said:

Lynk said:

Also, any offensive bushido parry mage (whether nerve striking, necro, or myst variant) you cannot fit ninjitsu, which leaves you very vulnerable in outnumbered situations. 

There is pretty significant template variety in PvP today.  You can't argue against that.

   There's a decent variety in pvp Mage templates, yes.  not really much variety in dexer templates.  the reason for that would be, Mages can more reliably interrupt other mages, due to much less RNG being involved.

 Parry doesn't stop mages from killing each other, at least not even close to the extent it does when going against a dexer.

Mervyn said:

Well, i know warriors are not as simple as they used to be, but a good mage should always be able to beat a good warrior, simply because there's more skill to playing a mage than a warrior. Especially if they've built their whole template to have 80 dex and 120 parry.

 

  the point is a good mage (Without parry) can already beat a good dexer more often than not.

Mervyn said:

I will say, it’s fairly unnecessary for splintering to both bleed and slow, should probably just slow. 

 you factor parry, the dexer might as well not play UO (judging by the decline in "Dexer" players is evident of that) unless they have more people to counter-balance against a parry-mages defense.   (I can't tell you the last time I saw a solo player, let alone a solo dexer....)

 Get rid of Casting Focus (or at bare minimum change what it does) and the portion of your post talking about "Skill" would hold more weight.  Skill & RNG are pretty much complete opposites of one another.   Seems contradictory to me.

Drop Parry chance down to 20% (from 35%) for Wrestle + Parry & Anatomy + Eval-int + Parry (because they will Always have a hand free for potions, unlike any other character with Parry).

They'd be great steps in the right direction for pvp to make a comeback, that's assuming we're not beyond the point of no return already....

 Btw, Splintering wasn't really an issue (aside from Duration, which was fixed mind you) until it spawned on more weapon types (shame-loot & Global loot)  Which coincidentally is how casters gained access to it... just thought I'd throw that out there.

no problem with casting focus.the problem of parry is not only with anatomy ,eval or wrestling. but with all the combinasion.a dexxer can not compete against and when you managed to kill one is more luck

Mervyn said:

I will say, it’s fairly unnecessary for splintering to both bleed and slow, should probably just slow. 

splintering is ok with bleed and slow. but healing should heal and remove the bleed. should not proc too often 

Cookie said:

The_Higgs_1 said:

LOL everyone has parry to avoid bein splintered but yet splinter isn't OP.  OSI pvp is dead has been dead for couple years at least, due to being boxed into basically one of three templates.  Not to mention its zerg or no fights no matter what shard u play on.  Too many egos and no skill in pvp anymore.

I'm just going to re-confirm my belief that most people had parry to avoid dismount, not splinter.

Splinter is annoying, but in itself doesn't get you ganked by 5 players in under 1 second. Dismount does, this is the reason everyone takes parry.

Dismount, Splinter, Mortal, Bleed, Deathstrike, Lethal Poison - all at the same time by 5 dexxers, is a bit of a downer tbh, no-one enjoys being wiped out in the blink of an eye by that type of combination just because you were stuck on foot and therefore a sitting duck. When Dismount was just confined to Bolas it was ok - now it is on every pvp weapon type special, it is way too much, and performed way too fast.

I will stop commenting on pvp, because I've now quit, as have most of my team by the looks of it. It's just not fun anymore. No-one can tell me how balanced it is because based on my personal experience, no-one I know pvp's anymore - and we had a large active pvp team, who used to have fun. I've been doing my best to get the message across, but it's time up now.

And If I'm not pvping, I'm not really interested In the game anymore. Maybe it's the summer, maybe it's the world cup, maybe my life has just got more fun, luckily I have found a personal answer, I do now play Siege and enjoy it, it is more old-school UO.

So overall, while I think the OP's post was muddled up, I agree with him, it is a mess.

yes without parry you are dismounth almost every time. mage weapons or a weapons skill without parry blocks almost nothing. I am neither pro or against. But to put it a little less easy would be good and do something with the no-dachi. Do not have a heal full life, just the same amount of damage and put a timer

drcossack

ezikel said:

yes without parry you are dismounth almost every time. mage weapons or a weapons skill without parry blocks almost nothing. I am neither pro or against. But to put it a little less easy would be good and do something with the no-dachi. Do not have a heal full life, just the same amount of damage and put a timer

I'm Wrestle/Parry for when I fight at Yew Gate and I can't tell you how many times I've been dismounted.  Granted, there are probably multiple people attempting it (I'm not exactly paying attention once I see a # of people on me), so one's going to land.  But dismount itself isn't necessarily the problem - in a 1v1, there are absolutely no issues with it (and, in fact, I would call it borderline useless in such a fight.)

CovenantX

ezikel said:

no problem with casting focus.the problem of parry is not only with anatomy ,eval or wrestling. but with all the combinasion.a dexxer can not compete against and when you managed to kill one is more luck

 The combination is the problem,  If the problem wasn't only Anatomy/Eval or Wrestling + Parry, Wouldn't there be Parry Mages using a Weapon skill & a shield?   Oh, it's because they can be disarmed losing their defensive skill for 5s, While they have a shield & a weapon equipped they're also unable to chug potions.

That just so happens to be the exact same reason Dexers don't run around with a weapon & a shield, aside from the very few 4/6 chivalry users which is the only thing that can heal fast enough to sacrifice Potions for that a dexer has access to.

Weapon skill + hci vs Wrestling/Anatomy+Eval skill + dci.  (No Parry)

Weapon hit / Miss

     50% / 50%

Spell hit / Weapon hit + interruption.

    100% / 50%

Weapon skill + hci vs Wrestling/Anatomy+Eval skill + dci & Parry. (0% CF)

Weapon hit / Miss

        32.5% / 67.5%

Spell hit / Weapon hit +  spell interuption

   100%  / 32.5%

Weapon skill + hci vs Wrestling/Anatomy+Eval skill + dci, Parry & Casting Focus (12%)

Spell hit / Weapon-hit / Hit + spell interruption - Dexer vs Parry-mage

 100%   /   32.5 %      /   28.6%

Weapon skill + hci vs Wrestling/Anatomy+Eval skill + dci, Parry & Casting Focus (17%)

Spell-hit / Weapon-hit / Hit + spell interruption - Dexer vs Scribe-parry-mage (17% CF)

 100%    /    32.5%      / 26.9%

 

The "luck" you refer to is RNG... Casting Focus is an additional layer of RNG (like parry) stacked against a dexer to help the mage win  asting focus has some other things that are advantageous to the caster particularly against dexers or weapon specials in general. - It's part of the problem.

Casting Focus also f***ed-up mage-dueling by adding "dice rolls" (RNG) where it doesn't belong.

 Which is the main reason I prefer for it to be either removed or changed.

Luthander

Spells in comparison to melee never miss that’s always made pvp a mages game ever since 97 imo

Oreogl

Don't forget the difference in swing speed and spell casting.

Acid_Rain

Oreogl said:

Don't forget the difference in swing speed and spell casting.

That’s a 64% difference in casting flamestrike compared to swinging at the cap for those counting. Also very easily interrupted.

hunter11

When I'm swinging four times every five seconds and only connecting close to 30% of the time that seems like no problem 

hunter11

i actually dont see much of a problem on my melee dexxer as i do my archer i seem to hit way less