PvP Updates Discussion Thread

Kyronix

Rules of the Thread

• Be respectful.  Keep your PvP in the game, if you can't participate in civil discussion about actionable gameplay changes send an e-mail with your thoughts instead to uo@broadsword.com
• Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@broadsword.com
• You need to provide actionable feedback.  Actual changes we can implement.  The community is then encouraged to discuss those changes in an attempt to build a consensus.

Happy posting!

styx

How about add Teleport Rings to the ingame store?

make as a new item called "The Ring of Escape" and charge us like 500/1000 Sovs for each

Marcus

Okay necromancy.

I think Strangle should not be removed by apples, cleansing winds or chiv anymore.  It is impossible to get a full duration strangle to ramp up damage over time with so many cleanse effects.

Vampiric Embrace should be a powerhouse form that doesnt have Garlic burn and grants 100% poison immunity even to lethals and cure potions can still be used.

Probably more but I feel necromancy can be a bit more then a corpse skin applier.

PapaCrunch

styx said:

How about add Teleport Rings to the ingame store?

make as a new item called "The Ring of Escape" and charge us like 500/1000 Sovs for each

How about you buy them off vendors like everyone else has too? You have just as much capability to purchase rings as everyone else in the game and that goes for every player. Go on Vendor search type in tele ring and go buy them. Its not a item only particular people have access to everyone can buy them anytime they want. There is a ton on ATL for sale right now. Make some gold and go buy them like everyone else does.

Lynk

1.) Make mastery and pet related debuffs reduce resist caps rather than resist reduction.  In current state they are useless in PvP.  E.g - onslaught, grasping claw, armor corruption.

2.) Make Tele rings paralyze the user while waiting for cursor to appear, similar to how magic wands function.  

3.)  Increase diminishing returns on evasion or halve the duration, or both.

4.) Make the no cool down timer for wrestling tied to the mastery, but without mastery apply the same timer as usual.  Also implement a mana based form of the old unbreakable stun punch from pre aos as a wrestling mastery.

5.) Turn in for item events should be done in fel only to prevent scripting of the events.  Your player base is the most effective and numerous enforcement tool.

6.) Dismount immunity cool down of 60 seconds in conjunction with treating pet statues like pet balls, where there is an interruptible freezing period to get the pet to pop up.  

7.)  Let lances dismount while mounted regardless of whether or not your opponent has a Lance in their hand.  Should also force you to be on foot if landed.

8.)  Include wrestling In the skill list to qualify for mana discount on special moves.

9.)  Implement some automation so that if hexadecimal strings are passed through guild or alliance chat an automatic log is created for further review by a GM.  

10.) The only people using EJ accounts are using them for nefarious purposes.  

Sylas_Stormguard

Awesome to see an interest taken in this.

1. Rebalance weapons to give non-bokuto weapons a purpose to be used. (This will help pvm diversity as well potentially) Suggestions:

2. What exactly is the point of parry when every template has parry? Why not just give all chars parry and delete the skill? This is a skill point increase problem , just a thought, probably not actionable.

3. Add action timers between dismounting and toggling specials (and make dismount toggled abilities deselect when you remount) - to combat scripted dismounts and give counterplay

4. Necromancy sucks in pvp-
Suggested changes- 
Give spiritspeak mana regen similar to focus
Make debuffs harder to remove (tie removing these curses to necromancy skill)
Make mounts summoned by animate dead permanent until dismounted
Make the aoe for poison strike 1 tile wider
Maybe make the necromancy mastery passive increase the difficulty to remove debuffs
Mostly small changes that would make these immensely more popular choices imo.

5.
Make equipped spell channeling weapons/shields reduce damage output
Make equipped spellbooks/wands increase damage output
Make spellbooks non disarmable
-To create diversity and give a benefit to not using parry/hybrid templates on casting classes

6
Make disabling abilities unbreakable apart from apples for at least a small duration.
-Too many absolutely useless weapons and abilities because they are just instantly broken with trap boxes
(Paralyze/Sleep/nerve strike etc.)

I agree with most of Links ideas as well

Marcus

7.)  Let lances dismount while mounted regardless of whether or not your opponent has a Lance in their hand.  Should also force you to be on foot if landed.

This sounds good if it replaced one of the Fencing Mastery abilities. I don't think Swordsmanship needs access to this ability.

4. Necromancy sucks in pvp-
Suggested changes- 
Give spiritspeak mana regen similar to focus
Make debuffs harder to remove (tie removing these curses to necromancy skill)
Make mounts summoned by animate dead permanent until dismounted
Make the aoe for poison strike 1 tile wider
Maybe make the necromancy mastery passive increase the difficulty to remove debuffs
Mostly small changes that would make these immensely more popular choices imo.

 just my opinion however

Spiritspeak could use a buff I agree especially the on use portion but mana regen should come from elsewhere.

In regards to debuffs I disagree. Corpse Skin is to powerful and needs to be removed on demand. Mindrot / Blood Oath / Evil Omen are fine as is. It's really just strangle that shouldn't be cleansed because this spell ramps up Damage Over time and you need it to stay on to get value out of it.

I don't think personally increasing the poison strike aoe does a whole lot. I think maybe making the poisoning bonus just become a passive so it would have a 9% chance to also apply a poison to the target.

The necromancy Mastery passive I feel needs to improve forms: specifically Vampiric Embrace since the rest all require you to be on foot they are not viable. Forms are the bulk of the Necromancy kit and Vampiric Embrace needs to be strong.  This also give the necromancer additional Mana Regen so no need for Spirit Speak to do the same. 

Immunity to all Poison, no Garlic burn and ability to chug potions and since its linked to Mastery you can add a spirit speak requirement so Sampires don't get the benefits for free. 

Mysticism cleansing winds Heals, Cures and Removes curse all in one cast. I don't think asking for Poison immunity should be a stretch.  Mystics can also counter Vamp Form with Purge Magic.

6 Make disabling abilities unbreakable apart from apples for at least a small duration.
-Too many absolutely useless weapons and abilities because they are just instantly broken with trap boxes
(Paralyze/Sleep/nerve strike etc.)

I think its an issue mostly with Trap Boxes.  They really shouldn't have infinite uses (again my opinion) but you should need to be selective when to use the trap box to break an effect not have it scripted to auto open whenever you are under a breakable effect.

Also probably unpopular opinion but I think Mortal Strike is a toxic ability. Completing preventing heals seems a litttle extreme and should just be like a 75% healing debuff.

username

Kyronix said:

Rules of the Thread

• Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@ broadsword.com

I'm happy to see this is on the radar. These clients needed to be addressed several years ago.

CovenantX

A few things, some of which have already been mentioned by others.

1) Dart Trapped Containers should deal a minimum of 15 damage to the user, regardless of the tinker's skill level when the item was crafted.

2) Parry chances should be reduced when paired with Magery, scaling respectively with evasion chances as well.  -and Parry should no longer count against Focus Spec.

3) Teleport charged items should either have a 30second global cooldown... Or a cast time, similar to wands -as someone else mentioned. -i kinda like the frozen/cast time more tbh.

4) Weapon Mastery should grant an additional weapon special, chosen by the player.

5) Parry Mastery - Shield-bash, should no longer proc Glenda's Bone Breaker.

6) Focus spec should be restored to 30% SDI cap, non-focus spec should remain at 20% SDI.

7) Spell-books should no longer be affected by weapon special Disarm.

8) Splintering Weapon should no longer cause a target to bleed, instead it would only slow a targets movement speed.

9) Armor Ignore pvp cap should be 35 for ranged weapons and 1-handed melee weapons, 40 for 2-handed weapons.

10) Onslaught should reduce both the targets current & cap resistance to the users damage type, instead of just the current resistance.

11) Reinforced Refinements should reduce your minimum DCI with your DCI cap, currently these refinements increase your resistance cap +1, and reduce your defense chance increase cap by -1 per modification,  essentially allowing you to build your suit with less over-all DCI because you're never in the negative.   

12) Casting Focus should no longer proc against player sourced attacks.

13) Poison Immunity should only proc to those with 80.0 or higher in poisoning skill.

14) VvV Mounts should only decay 'readiness' upon death & add method/command to show the user how much readiness the mount has remaining, so there are no surprise pet disappearances mid fight... it's super annoying.

15) Add City Trade Deal buffs to Silver Traders -100 silver /24hr buff. -so it's easily accessible by all fel players  Red and otherwise.

16) Hit Lower Attack should be made consistent with Hit Lower Defense, currently you can over-cap hit chance, to completely negate the affects of HLA (this will be much more widely used, later as new/better HCI items are added to the game, somewhat rare to run into anyone over-capped now)

17) Add a cap to the amount of "Bonus Skill points" that can be added via items. - I'd recommend +80.0 to be the hard skill cap, allowing for an even 800.0 skill points.   -I suppose this would effect more than just pvp, but I feel this is a fair Skill Bonus cap.

18) Allow weapon specials to be used with modified skill, in required Weapon skill & Tactics,  -this one is more of a quality of life change, as most of the time jewelry & other items with tactics & in some cases, weapon skill are worthless because of the real skill requirement.

19)  Hit Dispel & Magery 'Dispel" should function as purge-magic and remove 1 buff from the target, when used on a non-summoned target/player.

username said:

Kyronix said:

Rules of the Thread

• Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@ broadsword.com

I'm happy to see this is on the radar. These clients needed to be addressed several years ago.

  Absolutely, That was going to be my #1 by far if I hadn't read that first.  -I guess we'll see what happens.

Juju

shuriken-fukija spam have to be fixed, we need a cooldown between them

Potion

Balance and QoL updates are definitely important but that cannot be the only thing that gets looked at.

Yew Gate cannot remain the main source of content for Felucca. We need actual new content to generate buzz and excitement to actually be able to lure people back to the game and while addressing 3rd party programs and some balance updates might attract a few we need to get fresh new content into the game that makes people want to log in again.

The most important thing is we need to stop pretending all Shards can be treated equally this mentality is crippling the game. It is so unrealistic to believe that this game being 25 years old will ever see an amount of returning players let alone PvPers to populate over 25 shards. 

It is a harsh reality that might upset a few but it's better to do it now then wait until after New Legacy comes out and you realize that not as many players came as expected and then you need to force those players to relocate in the future upsetting even more. The Dev's need to pick a handful of shards and build them up with increased focus to Felucca content.  If by some miracle the game does see an unprecedented amount of players more servers can always be included.

Just look at trammel events that EM's put on they draw significant amount of cross shard players to them most simply after the rewards.  This exact same concept should absolutely apply to Felucca.  We need pvp events this gives guilds a date and time to get together log in and know they will have a good time pvping. But you can't have events on 25 shards because it diminishes the value of the event, events will overlap and you just spread the small amount of players we have out way to thin trying to participate on as many shards as possible.  It is important to give people more guaranteed content that you can co-ordinate with your guild to play that night and know that other people will be on to play against.  To often people log on and nothing is happening and then go play other games or do other things.

Champion Spawns.  We either need new ones with a new big bad harrower boss. Or at the very least the old champs and harrower need to be updated to make them feel fresh. Preferably new Spawns/Harrower would be best in an attempt to rekindle the original feeling of champ spawns and the success they had for the PvP community.  And again this needs to only be available on selected shards (5 is ideal). Shard bound isn't good enough especially if any rewards are consumed on use. The feeling of doing a spawn should feel like a huge risk and you will be contested at anytime. Putting in the work to collect all the components to summon a harrower should be a significant investment and then summoning one should bring everyone to the party to fight over it. Not everyone is a fan of a 'choke point' fight but for the game to appeal to more players needs giants guilds clashing for supremacy and going head to head in all out brawls. 

In the future it would be nice to see Official hosted tournaments showcasing the best on best.

Guilds need to face Adversity. They might be forced to improve their teamwork to be more competitive. Maybe they need to recruit more players to match what other guilds are fielding. Maybe smaller guilds need to make temporary alliances to take on other groups. 

Potion

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Sylas_Stormguard

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Lord_Frodo

He is not talking about the 720 cap he is talking about the total cap.  LEAVE THE TOTAL CAP ALONE.

Potion

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

Trismegistos

I am wondering that some postings are coming from a profile which has a low digit number of total postings.

And that some of the postings are reading like a wishlist. Yes they ask for recommandations, but if i want a change i have to justify why this or that has to be changed or not has to be changed. and if you give a reason, non PvP player have the chance to get a clue how to become better.

As i wrote before, why should murderer should have a town bonus from a town of virtue? It should be harder to kill someone than to try to stay alive. Most of their victims arent skilled or equipped as the hunters are. So in a world which is based on virtues the blue ones should be supported.

When i read something "Your player base is the most effective and numerous enforcement tool." i think it will end in some rulez the turn in NPC and the others can buy the stuff from a vendor.

Everyone should have the chance to get as much items as he/she can based on his time, knowledge, equippment and skills. This is ok while they are not disturbing others.

Even you won't find me often on the felucca facet, i will watch this thread.

AtomicBetty

Trismegistos said:

I am wondering that some postings are coming from a profile which has a low digit number of total postings.

And that some of the postings are reading like a wishlist. Yes they ask for recommandations, but if i want a change i have to justify why this or that has to be changed or not has to be changed. and if you give a reason, non PvP player have the chance to get a clue how to become better.

As i wrote before, why should murderer should have a town bonus from a town of virtue? It should be harder to kill someone than to try to stay alive. Most of their victims arent skilled or equipped as the hunters are. So in a world which is based on virtues the blue ones should be supported.

What does post count matter? Feedback still valid regardless of how many posts the user makes.

Why does town bonus only need to come from towns of virtue? Why can't Bucs Den have a town bonus? If you believe in virtues being supported why can't those that oppose those same virtues also be supported?

Regardless it sounds like it won't matter as it will probably be linked to VvV in the future which is fine. Just hopefully the point cost isn't to excessive and maybe they also allow a seven day buff (in addition to 24hour) so farming points daily doesn't become a chore

Lord_Frodo

Potion said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

NO  This will mess with EVERY type of player in UO.  Stop asking for changes that hurts %90 of the player base for the %10 PvPers.

Potion

Lord_Frodo said:

Potion said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

NO  This will mess with EVERY type of player in UO.  Stop asking for changes that hurts %90 of the player base for the %10 PvPers.

Does not effect 90% of the playerbase very few players use over 100 skill point increase.  And there is a skill cap for a reason.  Characters are not meant to do everything so even if a person does use over 100 skill point increase from items doesn't mean they should.

You are just clueless and have no idea what you are talking about.  But feel free to show me your suit and template that utilizes over 100 skill point increase.

Seth

@Kyronix

Just going to say this, if I am going to return to PvP again.

Pls don't nerf templates.

If one template is "OP", then upgrade other templates to challenge this. 

Bukuto mage too OP? 
Then make Archer, Stun Mage, Para Mage, etc equally OP.

Then, it's up to each player skills to see who is a better player, to counter each other.

Don't nerf everything until it's so... boring.

The cheap process is to simply nerf mindlessly.

It's better to level the playing field by adding "countering methods" and make all templates viable to counter each other.

Covfefe

how would a hard cap on +skill actually work though?

say you have jewels with +30 skill you do use, and +15 a skill you don't want, how would the system decide the 30 skills of the 45 you could have?

CovenantX

Covfefe said:

how would a hard cap on +skill actually work though?

say you have jewels with +30 skill you do use, and +15 a skill you don't want, how would the system decide the 30 skills of the 45 you could have?

   I would hope the devs could add a priority system for skill point increase, maybe the higher the skill increase to a specific skill gives those skills priority over lower +skills,  could tie it to skills that have at least 0.1 'real skill' allocated,

 

or perhaps a context menu with a list of all the skills (kinda like a 2nd skill list) with arrows up/down, , but only for bonus +skills, then when you equip an item that has +20 Magery & 20 Peacemaking, you could have the arrow for peacemaking pointing down, so that skill won't count against you for the skill increase (but it would count against you in terms of a useless item property).   

I'm sure there would be instances where you'd still have to adjust your 'real skill' to fit certain items in your suit though.   particularly when you're over the skill cap with several skills you do use on items, and it may apply the bonuses to the ones that aren't as important, preventing a more important skill from being capped out.

.There definitely needs to be a hard cap on +skill points though.   balancing things in all aspects of the game is going to be much harder if you're only limited in +skill by the items that you can acquire.

Cookie

Trismegistos said:

I am wondering that some postings are coming from a profile which has a low digit number of total postings.

I'm recognising them as pvpers, the real players of this game, who know the mechanics and play the game rather than posting on forums, they have know pvp is mess up, and are posting.

You are right, some of the points need to be backed up more. But in many cases, they assume forum readers understand the game mechanics, but they are completely mistaken.

AtomicBetty

Longshot, probably.

You should ask the posters that attempt to provide suggestions if they would be interested in joining a Slack group and have more direct discussions to cover feedback. So better communication can be had and if area's of concern are raised, or thoughts on how that would be beneficial are had they can defend their suggestions and maybe put it in a point of view that you haven't thought about?

Spend like a week, a month just talking about everything raised on the forums, internal suggestions and see if actual meaningful change can happen over time.

Covfefe

I don't think you need a skill cap, sounds like a lot of hard work.

If they did what Covenant said:

11) Reinforced Refinements should reduce your minimum DCI with your DCI cap, currently these refinements increase your resistance cap +1, and reduce your defense chance increase cap by -1 per modification,  essentially allowing you to build your suit with less over-all DCI because you're never in the negative. 

that would be -15 skill anyway, as skill on jewel will instead need to be replaced by DCI.

Lord_Frodo

Potion said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Potion said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

NO  This will mess with EVERY type of player in UO.  Stop asking for changes that hurts %90 of the player base for the %10 PvPers.

Does not effect 90% of the playerbase very few players use over 100 skill point increase.  And there is a skill cap for a reason.  Characters are not meant to do everything so even if a person does use over 100 skill point increase from items doesn't mean they should.

You are just clueless and have no idea what you are talking about.  But feel free to show me your suit and template that utilizes over 100 skill point increase.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG  There are a lot of players that use added skill points to go over 820.  All my warrior types, Tamers and Bards have 820+ skills and I do not have to prove anything, you prove that they don't other than saying so.  The DEVs are free to look at every bodies Chars to prove you are full of BS.

Lord_Frodo

@Potion There is a new page of PvP jewelry on Stratics so every PvPer can have 820+skills.  If something is there for all then it is BALANCED you just choose not to do it and want every body  nerfed.  Oh wait I know why you want this, you got beat by someone with a more leet suit than you.

CovenantX

Covfefe said:

I don't think you need a skill cap, sounds like a lot of hard work.

If they did what Covenant said:

11) Reinforced Refinements should reduce your minimum DCI with your DCI cap, currently these refinements increase your resistance cap +1, and reduce your defense chance increase cap by -1 per modification,  essentially allowing you to build your suit with less over-all DCI because you're never in the negative. 

that would be -15 skill anyway, as skill on jewel will instead need to be replaced by DCI.

    That's exactly right.  everyone would need +45 dci on their suit in order to reach their dci cap with reinforced refinements.

   I would say the +skill-cap would be more of a preventative measure, before skill point increase gets too far out of hand,   I know it would affect some people's current suits, but the majority of players seem to be around +80 to 100 +skill.    

I'd support a cap of 100, or even 120 +skill, but it does have to be capped somewhere.  otherwise the meta is just going to be the same thing with more skill crammed into it, eventually items without +skill would be useless in the end.

Urge

AtomicBetty said:

Longshot, probably.

You should ask the posters that attempt to provide suggestions if they would be interested in joining a Slack group and have more direct discussions to cover feedback. So better communication can be had and if area's of concern are raised, or thoughts on how that would be beneficial are had they can defend their suggestions and maybe put it in a point of view that you haven't thought about?

Spend like a week, a month just talking about everything raised on the forums, internal suggestions and see if actual meaningful change can happen over time.

I fully plan on quitting the game when my subs ends so take my words however you will but i love UO pvp. I spent the better part of 15+ years doing it and would love to hear it become massive again. 

I would highly advise against an insider group. A closed pvp focus group was tried in the past. It ended with a select few having a personal hand in changes with insider information giving them time to have the next ready made FotM temp when those changes were made public. 

It may be cold to say but pvpers know more about how mechanics work together than any dev ever will. We all know how long it takes pvp related changes to happen here. Any change that results in an absurd OP temp being born usually ends with mass people tramming out or quitting entirely before any adjustments are made.

If i was a dev knowing how much better suits and mods have become i'd probably revisit nerfs of the past and adjust accordingly.

Nerfs force people to play what works. You need balance but also diversity where there's options to play other templates that could be equally as effective and also fun to that specific player. From 2003-2012 an average weekday was 100+ person dungeon fights. We all played different templates that we enjoyed playing. 

Nerfs just off the top of my head:
-Stealth archers destroyed (annoying but funny to have an entire guild pop out)
-Ai cap
-Pet damage cap
-Archers and throwers miss more than hit
-Comp bow increased swing speed
-Increased mana for spamming specials
-Tying hiding and stealth to deathstrike damage killed a lot of fun hybrid ninja temps

The list goes on and on.