Multiclient vs Boxing response

Urge

"There still seems to be some confusion between Multiboxing and Multi-clienting .  We are adding this to the support section of UO.com, but let me try to explain the difference once again.  Multiboxing is illegal, this is when you use a 3rd party program to control more than one character with one input stream.  If you log in 2+ clients  but do not use one input stream to control all your clients that is multi-clienting and it is legal.  In other words, if you are running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters you are good to go."

I'm going to respond to this as it's still confusing and leaves too much in the grey area. Most multi-client actions are to help a main character, namely in some form of battle.

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

Garth_Grey

This is only confusing to those that didn't pay attention in pre-school.

Bilbo

Urge said:

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

You do understand that technically this is illegal also as you are not in control of all your chars at all times and that your chars are doing something in-game.  At no time are you allowed to be AFK while your char is actively doing something and by switch between clients your keyboard is not connected to all open clients %100 of the time.  To answer your question, yes you could be banned.

Garth_Grey

Urge said:

"There still seems to be some confusion between Multiboxing and Multi-clienting .  We are adding this to the support section of UO.com, but let me try to explain the difference once again.  Multiboxing is illegal, this is when you use a 3rd party program to control more than one character with one input stream.  If you log in 2+ clients  but do not use one input stream to control all your clients that is multi-clienting and it is legal.  In other words, if you are running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters you are good to go."

I'm going to respond to this as it's still confusing and leaves too much in the grey area. Most multi-client actions are to help a main character, namely in some form of battle.

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

Ok my experience with this is, at least on the CC which I rarely use now, if you alt tab to another window, you come out of combat mode, this doesn't happen on the EC. So if you're saying you hit alt tab and re-enter combat each time, I suppose one could assume that would be ok, of course if you're alt tabbing and you're still in combat, well...you're using other methods aren't you ? **wink**

Bilbo

Even auto defend is illegal if you are AFK.

Urge

Garth_Grey said:

Urge said:

"There still seems to be some confusion between Multiboxing and Multi-clienting .  We are adding this to the support section of UO.com, but let me try to explain the difference once again.  Multiboxing is illegal, this is when you use a 3rd party program to control more than one character with one input stream.  If you log in 2+ clients  but do not use one input stream to control all your clients that is multi-clienting and it is legal.  In other words, if you are running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters you are good to go."

I'm going to respond to this as it's still confusing and leaves too much in the grey area. Most multi-client actions are to help a main character, namely in some form of battle.

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

Ok my experience with this is, at least on the CC which I rarely use now, if you alt tab to another window, you come out of combat mode, this doesn't happen on the EC. So if you're saying you hit alt tab and re-enter combat each time, I suppose one could assume that would be ok, of course if you're alt tabbing and you're still in combat, well...you're using other methods aren't you ? **wink**

I've never done it, hence the theoretical example and the question following for a concrete example. If it were deemed condoned then gameplay options would open.

Also after reading this I tried hitting tab and switching windows. Other account will remain in war mode. Same if opening a paperdoll and hitting the war button.

If I wanted to use "other methods" I wouldn't be asking if it were legal now would I? **wink wink**  

Urge

Bilbo said:

Even auto defend is illegal if you are AFK.

That's what I was asking. Is it considered AFK if you're there on one character?

Garth_Grey

Urge said:

Garth_Grey said:

Urge said:

"There still seems to be some confusion between Multiboxing and Multi-clienting .  We are adding this to the support section of UO.com, but let me try to explain the difference once again.  Multiboxing is illegal, this is when you use a 3rd party program to control more than one character with one input stream.  If you log in 2+ clients  but do not use one input stream to control all your clients that is multi-clienting and it is legal.  In other words, if you are running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters you are good to go."

I'm going to respond to this as it's still confusing and leaves too much in the grey area. Most multi-client actions are to help a main character, namely in some form of battle.

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

Ok my experience with this is, at least on the CC which I rarely use now, if you alt tab to another window, you come out of combat mode, this doesn't happen on the EC. So if you're saying you hit alt tab and re-enter combat each time, I suppose one could assume that would be ok, of course if you're alt tabbing and you're still in combat, well...you're using other methods aren't you ? **wink**

I've never done it, hence the theoretical example and the question following for a concrete example. If it were deemed condoned then gameplay options would open.

Also after reading this I tried hitting tab and switching windows. Other account will remain in war mode. Same if opening a paperdoll and hitting the war button.

If I wanted to use "other methods" I wouldn't be asking if it were legal now would I? **wink wink**  

You must be in the EC then, because I know for a fact tabbing back and forth into a 2nd client, negates the combat mode. Maybe it's a win10/hppc thing, but I doubt it.

Urge

Garth_Grey said:

Urge said:

Garth_Grey said:

Urge said:

"There still seems to be some confusion between Multiboxing and Multi-clienting .  We are adding this to the support section of UO.com, but let me try to explain the difference once again.  Multiboxing is illegal, this is when you use a 3rd party program to control more than one character with one input stream.  If you log in 2+ clients  but do not use one input stream to control all your clients that is multi-clienting and it is legal.  In other words, if you are running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters you are good to go."

I'm going to respond to this as it's still confusing and leaves too much in the grey area. Most multi-client actions are to help a main character, namely in some form of battle.

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

Ok my experience with this is, at least on the CC which I rarely use now, if you alt tab to another window, you come out of combat mode, this doesn't happen on the EC. So if you're saying you hit alt tab and re-enter combat each time, I suppose one could assume that would be ok, of course if you're alt tabbing and you're still in combat, well...you're using other methods aren't you ? **wink**

I've never done it, hence the theoretical example and the question following for a concrete example. If it were deemed condoned then gameplay options would open.

Also after reading this I tried hitting tab and switching windows. Other account will remain in war mode. Same if opening a paperdoll and hitting the war button.

If I wanted to use "other methods" I wouldn't be asking if it were legal now would I? **wink wink**  

You must be in the EC then, because I know for a fact tabbing back and forth into a 2nd client, negates the combat mode. Maybe it's a win10/hppc thing, but I doubt it.

Look under interface in your options. I have the box checked to hold down tab for combat. A quick tap will put my character into combat and leave it but if I hold down it will go in combat and out once I release. CC win 7.

Garth_Grey

I had that setting too. The reason I know this is I dual client a lot with the same intentions as you. If I put player 1 in combat mode and have him attack, I can then switch to player 2 and do something else, however if I alt/tab back to player one at any time, he comes out of agro. Always has.

Urge

Garth_Grey said:

I had that setting too. The reason I know this is I dual client a lot with the same intentions as you. If I put player 1 in combat mode and have him attack, I can then switch to player 2 and do something else, however if I alt/tab back to player one at any time, he comes out of agro. Always has.

I either split screen or use taskbar to switch windows.

Bilbo

Urge said:

Bilbo said:

Even auto defend is illegal if you are AFK.

That's what I was asking. Is it considered AFK if you're there on one character?

If you are there on one char only and you are not AFK or on another client then it is ok

CovenantX

Garth_Grey said:

You must be in the EC then, because I know for a fact tabbing back and forth into a 2nd client, negates the combat mode. Maybe it's a win10/hppc thing, but I doubt it.

  To prevent that, go into macroes and delete "Toggle Peace/War mode" macro (it's set on Tab by default btw) lol

Pawain

Bilbo said:

Urge said:

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

You do understand that technically this is illegal also as you are not in control of all your chars at all times and that your chars are doing something in-game.  At no time are you allowed to be AFK while your char is actively doing something and by switch between clients your keyboard is not connected to all open clients %100 of the time.  To answer your question, yes you could be banned.

So while my toon is fighting Navrey on the screen to my left and I am writing this post on the right, I am unattended.  You should page on me.  Lets see how far that goes.

When my cook is making 50 dough and I decide to eat a sandwich at my desk I am unattended macroing?

Better page on me daily because I do a lot of things while I am not pressing keys or looking at my toon.

Bilbo

Pawain said:

Bilbo said:

Urge said:

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

You do understand that technically this is illegal also as you are not in control of all your chars at all times and that your chars are doing something in-game.  At no time are you allowed to be AFK while your char is actively doing something and by switch between clients your keyboard is not connected to all open clients %100 of the time.  To answer your question, yes you could be banned.

So while my toon is fighting Navrey on the screen to my left and I am writing this post on the right, I am unattended.  You should page on me.  Lets see how far that goes.

When my cook is making 50 dough and I decide to eat a sandwich at my desk I am unattended macroing?

Better page on me daily because I do a lot of things while I am not pressing keys or looking at my toon.

Did anybody say anything about paging, now you are just being an ass.

Pawain

Bilbo said:

Pawain said:

Bilbo said:

Urge said:

I'll provide a theoretical example of let's say a champ spawn. When the champ is up I would have my main attack. I would also have two helper archer or tamer accounts that I manually walk in, toggle war mode and attack then switch back to my main. The above response says it's legal since I'm only controlling one account at a time BUT, could i still be baned under unattended gameplay since I'm only controlling one account at a time?

You do understand that technically this is illegal also as you are not in control of all your chars at all times and that your chars are doing something in-game.  At no time are you allowed to be AFK while your char is actively doing something and by switch between clients your keyboard is not connected to all open clients %100 of the time.  To answer your question, yes you could be banned.

So while my toon is fighting Navrey on the screen to my left and I am writing this post on the right, I am unattended.  You should page on me.  Lets see how far that goes.

When my cook is making 50 dough and I decide to eat a sandwich at my desk I am unattended macroing?

Better page on me daily because I do a lot of things while I am not pressing keys or looking at my toon.

Did anybody say anything about paging, now you are just being an ass.

My unattended toon thinks I am.



I cant be attending both at the same time and type on one.

Bilbo

@Pawain did @Mervyn get a hold of your password or something.  Maybe you two need to get a room to yourselves.  You are both starting to be just alike, I did not say a damn thing about paging but like your buddy you go and throw some BS into the mix.

Pawain

We are the same person.  Notice how you never see one without the other.

You are telling people they can get banned in the time it takes to hit Alt + Tab.

Someone has to page before a GM is going to check.

Tanager

Quote:  "If you log in 2+ clients  but do not use one input stream to control all your clients that is multi-clienting and it is legal.  In other words, if you are running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters you are good to go."

The original poster's example is legal. He is moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters. Just because that character does not need a lot of button smashing to control does not make it illegal.

If I take two characters hunting, have one "all kill" and then go stand in a corner then tab to my main character for the active combat - this is legal. I am moving between each window to control them. I am just not moving very often.

If I set one character at my house to make a stack of potions using the vet alchemy station, then manually switch to a different character who is out sailing his ship to the next SOS location via tillerman's map, and a 3rd character is actively farming Miasma - this is legal.

In these examples, I could get paged on by a zealous player who does not get an immediate response from me if I am not paying attention to that particular window at that particular time. But I AM sitting here at my PC, I am not Away From the Keyboard. There are no illegal scripts - or, indeed, ANY outside program at all being used. I would be moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters.

Pawain

I agree with Tanager and that is what UOs stance is.  Why are people constantly muddying the water.

I pay for two accounts and if I want to use two windows or two PCs, what is the difference?

Uriah_Heep

Y'all make my head hurt lol.  Just go play the game and ahve fun, and quit being keyboard lawyers...

Garth_Grey

I'm just tired of the Captain Obvious's explaining the differences...preschool, like I said.

Fat

Those that cannot tell the difference have nothing to worry about

Tanager

It might seem obvious, but there are players who truly believe that running 2 clients at the same time on the same PC is illegal, and that doing so will get their account(s) banned. They page on other players for this unlawful behavior. If that player happens to be not paying attention to that window for a few minutes, the recent zero-tolerance, no questions asked policy could get their account banned even tho they were not running any illegal programs, and doing everything well within the rules of the game. Therefor, it DOES matter to people who are not cheating.

I think this is from the days 20 years ago when Windows could not handle 2 instances of the same program at the same time. Windows changed, but UO's code did not, and so if people were running 2 clients on one PC then they were using a certain illegal program to do so. Eventually CC was updated to allow multiple instances, but it still gives a little warning to say it is not approved and some people take that to mean it is outright illegal. (EC gives no such warning, because, for the most part, the code has no trouble utilizing the same files for different instances of the program.)

It seems logical how that warning message might confuse newer players. Older players who are coming back recently (as well as many older players who have just not gotten the memo) are still hung up on the old code/policy. It does no harm to make sure by asking, so the name calling is a bit uncalled for imo.

Urge

Tanager said:

It might seem obvious, but there are players who truly believe that running 2 clients at the same time on the same PC is illegal, and that doing so will get their account(s) banned. They page on other players for this unlawful behavior. If that player happens to be not paying attention to that window for a few minutes, the recent zero-tolerance, no questions asked policy could get their account banned even tho they were not running any illegal programs, and doing everything well within the rules of the game. Therefor, it DOES matter to people who are not cheating.

This is exactly why I was asking. I know the difference in running 3rd party as opposed as manual but it still wasn't clear if I could have two performing actions. Judging by this thread, we're still divided on what the right answer really is.

Bilbo

Ask @Kyronix, @Mesanna It is time this is settled once and for all.  It use to say about unattended pets but I can't find that anywhere now.  UO.Com goes to EA rules, where is a link to the UO ToS

Garth_Grey

Tanager said:

It might seem obvious, but there are players who truly believe that running 2 clients at the same time on the same PC is illegal, and that doing so will get their account(s) banned. They page on other players for this unlawful behavior. If that player happens to be not paying attention to that window for a few minutes, the recent zero-tolerance, no questions asked policy could get their account banned even tho they were not running any illegal programs, and doing everything well within the rules of the game. Therefor, it DOES matter to people who are not cheating.

I think this is from the days 20 years ago when Windows could not handle 2 instances of the same program at the same time. Windows changed, but UO's code did not, and so if people were running 2 clients on one PC then they were using a certain illegal program to do so. Eventually CC was updated to allow multiple instances, but it still gives a little warning to say it is not approved and some people take that to mean it is outright illegal. (EC gives no such warning, because, for the most part, the code has no trouble utilizing the same files for different instances of the program.)

It seems logical how that warning message might confuse newer players. Older players who are coming back recently (as well as many older players who have just not gotten the memo) are still hung up on the old code/policy. It does no harm to make sure by asking, so the name calling is a bit uncalled for imo.

If I were referring to you I would have called you out by name, since I sort of know you.

CovenantX

You guys seem to be confusing "Unattended" with "Unattended Macroing"..

as long as your character (or pet) isn't performing any actions, you can be unattended and should be 100% legal.

If it is performing any actions, you need to be able to respond to a GM if one were to appears, at least that's how it looks to me by my analysis of its wording. 

@Bleak @Kyronix , Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but... if it doesn't work that way, it should.

Tanager

I was not referring to anyone in particular... just to the several folks who were calling the original poster as well as some responders stupid and other unpleasantness. The overall vibe I was getting was that they felt it was a dumb question with an obvious answer.

In reality, the official statement is not very specific, and there is still room for debate. I think the Devs need to give explicit examples such as turning a pet loose and just tabbing back every 5 minutes or so to loot. What about a well geared melee char in a little room slaying an endless supply of spawn to farm artifact drops - but they check in every 10 minutes or so. No scripts, no macros, just multi-client semi-attention.

I interpret "running multiple clients and are moving between each window one by one to independently control the characters" to mean that I can have one client performing an action while another client is performing its own actions. Otherwise, what am I controlling? And in that case, at least one account is performing its actions ''unattended''. There are many excruciatingly repetitive processes in UO that require zero attention once the action is set in motion. The player just needs to be able to respond to a GM within a reasonable amount of time if they are suspected of scripting or full-on AFK farming. That is fine with me.

The concern I have now is that ''reasonable amount of time'' may have been dropped to 1 minute.

Petra_Fyde

Tanager said:

I think this is from the days 20 years ago when Windows could not handle 2 instances of the same program at the same time. Windows changed, but UO's code did not, and so if people were running 2 clients on one PC then they were using a certain illegal program to do so. Eventually CC was updated to allow multiple instances, but it still gives a little warning to say it is not approved and some people take that to mean it is outright illegal. (EC gives no such warning, because, for the most part, the code has no trouble utilizing the same files for different instances of the program.)

It seems logical how that warning message might confuse newer players. Older players who are coming back recently (as well as many older players who have just not gotten the memo) are still hung up on the old code/policy. It does no harm to make sure by asking, so the name calling is a bit uncalled for imo.

Slight correction here?  If I remember right the message doesn't say 'not approved', it says 'not supported'. Not the same thing. Not supported means you do it at your own risk and if it breaks your pc, they're not responsible. 

My pc doesn't really like it much, so I only do something like that very briefly for things like passing items back and forth between my different crafters for things like imbuing luck and then enhancing with spined, or imbuing with ssi and then enhancing with ash (break it and start again). In these cases my characters are side by side and although I'm only controlling one at once, I can see both.

I know people who do champs with one character while their protector is hidden nearby, they do so on 2 monitors or split screen. They control one character, but can see both. 
If you were to leave a character unattended farming or crafting extensively while off doing something else and the character was totally unobserved for a considerable period of time my opinion would be that you were running a risk. 

Paging on 'unattended' is not something that happens in minutes. First the person has to discover the unattended character, determine it is unattended, page and wait for a response, then a GM has to respond and further establish that the character is not attending.  

Multiboxing is an entirely different thing, anyone doing it knows full well that they are doing something illegal. It can't be done without special software and it means all characters are controlled by one keyboard at the same time and working on concert, whatever actions the characters do they do together at the same time. If they cast a spell, they cast the same spell at the same time on the same target.

Pawain

They do not want you calling them when your PC can't handle multiple UO accounts running at the same time.

Here is the message:  Im waiting for my other toon. 

Notice the word  FEATURE!!!