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UNBOUND Energy Vortex : What am I doing wrong ?

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  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    There's a whole thread on stratics detailed with vollums. Fresh popped they require 0 taming.

    Don't take my word but I think 1 level up is something like 35/35 tame lore leaving plenty of character skill for more offense. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    edited February 2023
    Urge said:
    There's a whole thread on stratics detailed with vollums. Fresh popped they require 0 taming.

    Don't take my word but I think 1 level up is something like 35/35 tame lore leaving plenty of character skill for more offense. 
    Well, @PlayerSkillFTW post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87491/#Comment_87491 says clearly that his Template is using " 120 Swords/GM Tact/GM Anat/GM LJ/GM Necro/GM SS/GM Bush ".

    I see no mention whatsoever of 35/35 Tame and Lore being in that Template to control a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum....
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

    Holy hell


  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    Urge said:
    That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

    Holy hell


    Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....


  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    edited February 2023
    popps said:
    Urge said:
    That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

    Holy hell


    Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....


    It take a little finagling to get the single round of training done and then bonded to the sampire, but it’s possible to do.  The trickier part is often keeping it alive in combat.  It’s obviously not super tanky, so you need mods targeted on the sampire to avoid the vollem taking too much damage.

    The thread below has a screenshot of how I trained mine with 1 level of advancement.

    https://community.stratics.com/threads/sampire-with-lesser-hiryu.417073/#post-3046266
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    Merus said:
    popps said:
    Urge said:
    That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

    Holy hell


    Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....


    It take a little finagling to get the single round of training done and then bonded to the sampire, but it’s possible to do.  The trickier part is often keeping it alive in combat.  It’s obviously not super tanky, so you need mods targeted on the sampire to avoid the vollem taking too much damage.

    The thread below has a screenshot of how I trained mine with 1 level of advancement.

    https://community.stratics.com/threads/sampire-with-lesser-hiryu.417073/#post-3046266
    What I have been so far unable to understand, is how does one keep a Vollum healed up with a Sampire that has no vet and no Magery....

    Sure, the Sampire attacks the UEV first and then calls in the Vollum but MoBs do retarget at times and there is always the chance of a 2nd UEV coming over or a Crazy Mage wandering in the area and targeting the Vollum...

    And the Sampire cannot even cast Invisibility spell to break aggro on the Vollum....

    And each time that the Vollum dies, it becomes a waste of time to get it ressed and back into the fight...

    Question is, for a Sampire, the Vollum is an asset, or is it more of a liability ?
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    popps said:
    Merus said:
    popps said:
    Urge said:
    That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

    Holy hell


    Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....


    It take a little finagling to get the single round of training done and then bonded to the sampire, but it’s possible to do.  The trickier part is often keeping it alive in combat.  It’s obviously not super tanky, so you need mods targeted on the sampire to avoid the vollem taking too much damage.

    The thread below has a screenshot of how I trained mine with 1 level of advancement.

    https://community.stratics.com/threads/sampire-with-lesser-hiryu.417073/#post-3046266
    What I have been so far unable to understand, is how does one keep a Vollum healed up with a Sampire that has no vet and no Magery....

    Sure, the Sampire attacks the UEV first and then calls in the Vollum but MoBs do retarget at times and there is always the chance of a 2nd UEV coming over or a Crazy Mage wandering in the area and targeting the Vollum...

    And the Sampire cannot even cast Invisibility spell to break aggro on the Vollum....

    And each time that the Vollum dies, it becomes a waste of time to get it ressed and back into the fight...

    Question is, for a Sampire, the Vollum is an asset, or is it more of a liability ?
    You’re taking this too far, as usual.  Playing the game is playing the game.  Some will do it better than others.  Keeping the vollem alive isn’t a game mechanic issue, it’s a player skill/strategy issue.  If you suck at it, maybe it’s more of a liability.  Running your sampire into a herd of diseased blood elementals with the vollem in tow is probably going to get it killed.  If you practice a little awareness of surroundings and positioning, maybe you get better and it’s more of an asset.  
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,924
    edited February 2023
    Park a 4x bard at the gate, then lure the UEV over to discord and AI it to death. 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 613
    edited February 2023
    Here's the Disco+AP Vollem that my Sampire uses.



    Merus said:
    You’re taking this too far, as usual.  Playing the game is playing the game.  Some will do it better than others.  Keeping the vollem alive isn’t a game mechanic issue, it’s a player skill/strategy issue.  If you suck at it, maybe it’s more of a liability.  Running your sampire into a herd of diseased blood elementals with the vollem in tow is probably going to get it killed.  If you practice a little awareness of surroundings and positioning, maybe you get better and it’s more of an asset.  
    Pretty much this ^. I sit on top of the UEV with my Sampire to keep it targeting me, as my Vollem attacks it. I control the positioning of me and my Vollem to keep it from getting attacked. Bringing it into a Champion Spawn thick with mobs is a bad idea, but for single target fights where i have an easier time controlling aggression with positioning, the Vollem is an asset. Even on some fights with AoE, like when Artio, the Goddess of Nature would spawn during the Spring Fever Champ spawn, i would stand on top of her and attack her, sick my Vollem on her, get him to Discord her, then move him away and tell him to stay, and keep her far enough away from him that her AoE wouldn't hit him, but still on screen so his Discord would stay on her.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited February 2023
    “Not sure if there’s something wrong with this website or if they’re shadowbanning popp’s threads. They don’t appear to be moving to most recent for me when someone comments.

    some really interesting info here, so you can control 4 slot 120 discordance vollem without any taming/lore skill?”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    edited February 2023
    Yoshi said:
    “Not sure if there’s something wrong with this website or if they’re shadowbanning popp’s threads. They don’t appear to be moving to most recent for me when someone comments.

    some really interesting info here, so you can control 4 slot 120 discordance vollem without any taming/lore skill?”
    That is what I still do not understand.... I thought, that the Vollem being used was a 1 or at most 2 slots Vollem which had only undergone training to get 120 Discordance but now I see that it is a 4 slot Vollem and I am getting even more confused....

    @PlayerSkillFTW , could you please, kindly clarify whether you have any Taming/Lore on your Sampire or whether you are being able to control a 4 slots trained up Vollem with no Taming and Lore whatsoever ?

    Thank you very much.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    @popps ;  , @Yoshi and others. 
    1 rule: anyone can control any pet with 30 and lower taming requirement. Trained or not trained.    Be it horse , beetle or Lowand Boura.   
    2. Vollems start (current ones) with 3 slots , innate magery , dragon breath , etc.    See uo-ch for more. And they have around  -21 (minus 21) taming requirement. 
    3. advanced training costs around 21 taming requirement on first improvement and each improvement (resist, skill , powerscroll, stat) also adds 2.5 (sometimes 2 sometimes 3) or so.  Each time you press "apply training" requirement will incease. Doesnt matter you add 5 HP regen or 20. 

    If after training  and allocating what you need you are still below  30 - than anyone can control pet. 
    This way  Yoshi can make himself 2 battle dogs with Nausea and Vicious bite for his PvP adventures.  By the way , dog will have 2280 points to allocale on first training level. Not 1500 like other pets do.
    To train vollem/dog/ferret (to activate training) you  need 10+ taming /lore. Buy from stables or use jewels. To finish it and assign points you need 30+.  After training finished and your pet is below 30 - you can drop it. If you are greedy and went above 30 - then you ruined pet. 

    There are lots of dogs, cats and rats in Brit on Test Server. go and try. 
    Mr Pickles on below picture is in training , after 2 improvements he has 3 taming difficulty. And 2088 points to use for it. 

  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    edited February 2023
    Gwen said:
    @ popps   , @ Yoshi and others. 
    1 rule: anyone can control any pet with 30 and lower taming requirement. Trained or not trained.    Be it horse , beetle or Lowand Boura.   
    2. Vollems start (current ones) with 3 slots , innate magery , dragon breath , etc.    See uo-ch for more. And they have around  -21 (minus 21) taming requirement. 
    3. advanced training costs around 21 taming requirement on first improvement and each improvement (resist, skill , powerscroll, stat) also adds 2.5 (sometimes 2 sometimes 3) or so.  Each time you press "apply training" requirement will incease. Doesnt matter you add 5 HP regen or 20. 

    If after training  and allocating what you need you are still below  30 - than anyone can control pet. 
    This way  Yoshi can make himself 2 battle dogs with Nausea and Vicious bite for his PvP adventures.  By the way , dog will have 2280 points to allocale on first training level. Not 1500 like other pets do.
    To train vollem/dog/ferret (to activate training) you  need 10+ taming /lore. Buy from stables or use jewels. To finish it and assign points you need 30+.  After training finished and your pet is below 30 - you can drop it. If you are greedy and went above 30 - then you ruined pet. 

    There are lots of dogs, cats and rats in Brit on Test Server. go and try. 
    Mr Pickles on below picture is in training , after 2 improvements he has 3 taming difficulty. And 2088 points to use for it. 

    @Gwen ;

    Then, Entropy, the Disco+AP Vollem that is shown in the Post above, had all that training from its native 3 slots to the 4 shown ?

    I read 503 Strength 303 Hit Points, 150 Dexterity/Stamina, 125 Intelligence/138 Mana, Physical/Fire/Energy Resistances 80, Poison 33, Cold 30 and enhancements in Discordance 120 and Armor Pierce all done from slot 3 to slot 4 in 1 training ?

    And the Picture still does not show the 3 Regens....

    It would be nice to know what the 3 Regens for the ENTROPY Vollem are at.

    How many Training Points are in 1 from slot to slot train up ? 1,200something ?

    And, the Taming requirement is still under 30 ?

    I do not know what to say.....
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    popps said:

    I do not know what to say.....


    Wait till he learns prepatch vols are only 2 slots! 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    edited February 2023
    Urge said:
    popps said:

    I do not know what to say.....


    Wait till he learns prepatch vols are only 2 slots! 
    Ah, so, if I am understanding it correctly, we are NOT talking about a Vollem that every player can use... but of some rare, exclusive pet that some players might have, but that most other players cannot?

    I see.... it then hardly can help the average player, I would imagine....

    Furthermore, Gwen mentioned that, in order to be able to control the per without Taming and Animal Lore skills, like for example for a Sampire, the Taming requirement for that trained up per should be below 30.

    Now, is it then possible that, even for a pre-patch Vollem that started at 2 slots, when undergone 2 levels of training to 4 slots, that Vollem would still be under 30 as a Taming requirement ?
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited February 2023
    "this thread is actually really interesting, it's a shame it's shadowbanned

    i imagine having a prepatch 2 slot one wouldn't benefit you if you can still only put it through one round of training"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    Yoshi said:
    "this thread is actually really interesting, it's a shame it's shadowbanned

    i imagine having a prepatch 2 slot one wouldn't benefit you if you can still only put it through one round of training"
    Idk the exact numbers but around 65/65 is 100% control for a 5 slot. I'm sure someone could build a very effective temp around that in pvm or pvp. 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    Estimated numbers can be found here. Someone posted different results happened with different a different vol. 


    https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    edited February 2023
    Urge said:
    Estimated numbers can be found here. Someone posted different results happened with different a different vol. 


    https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/
    Well, thanks for that link.

    It looks like that, this Post in that Thread https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/post-2890243 , indicates as Taming/Lore requirements : 

    Vollem
    2 slots 0 skill
    3 slot 6 skill -> 49
    4 slot 49 -> 70
    5 slot 70 -> 82

    Since that Vollem named ENTROPY shows in the picture posted as a 4 slots Vollem, I therefore seem to understand that a Sampire, in order to control it, would need to accomodate within the Template 49 -> 70 in Skill.

    Not sure if that means per  skill, like 49 -> 70 for Animal Taming + 49 -> 70 for Animal Lore or that is in between the 2 Taming/Lore skills.

    It still is, either way, quite a lot of skill points to have to "squeeze" in a Sampire Template to bring a Vollem along in the fight....

    YET, the picture taken of the Lore for ENTROPY Vollem, shows the Taming requirement as 27.0. which is a whole lot less skill points as 49 -> 70 ......

    @PlayerSkillFTW , please, could you help us understand the discussion better, clarifying whether your Sampire actually has any Animal Taming and Animal Lore and how much, in order to be able to control your Entropy Vollem ?

    Thank you so much.

    EDIT.

    Further reading that Stratics Thread, there is this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/post-2890251 indicating that a 4 Slot Vollem shows as Requirement 34.0 .
    Not sure if that means only in the Animal Taming skill or in both, Taming and  Animal Lore....

    And this Post https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/post-2890255 right after the one just linked, mentions...

    This is interesting. The guy I mentioned now has one at 3 slots with 120 discord, resists, etc and it only requires 22 taming.

    While these 2 other posts seems to be in line with the picture of ENTROPY showing how that 4 slots Vollem might only have a Taming requirement of 27.0, I am even more confused now.... apparently, the range for Taming/Lore "requirements" can vary significantly from Vollem to Vollem even when the number of slots and, thus, advancement in training for those Vollems, is the same....

    It looks like to me, that not all Vollems are made equal, they do not have same Taming requirements under the same conditions, and things can vary significantly from Vollem to Vollem ?

    Hence, if so, telling to a fellow player to go hunt a Monster with a Sampire and a Vollem is not exactly "that" much feasible and easy, when it would require a particular and rare Vollem, in order to be something doable...
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    You could dig up your own posts on Stratics where you basically asked the same questions 2 years ago and ironically was answered by playerskill there as well. 


  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 613
    edited February 2023
    My Sampire has 0 Taming/Lore (doesn't have JoAT, and doesn't use skill jewelry), and is able to control his Vollem just fine.
    That Vollem was a current 3 slot Vollem, that i slot leveled to 4 and gave abilities to (it does have 0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR). I had to be careful not to add too many selections, or his Taming requirement would've went above 30.0, and i wouldn't be able to control him then if it did.
    My Sampire's Vollem provides 120 Discord (which is a very powerful debuff), and also applies Armor Pierce, which makes the victim take 10% more damage from all sources for 3 seconds (further increasing my damage output).

    My Prospector (Mining/LJ/Fishing) char uses a pre-patch 2 slot Vollem that was leveled to 3 slots, so it can guard him as he uses a 1 slot Fire Beetle and 1 slot Giant Beetle at the same time. The Vollem is Magery+AI, and kills basically anything i come across as i harvest resources.
    Downside to pre-patch is, that a pre-patch Vollem leveled once, doesn't end up with as high of a Base Damage as a current Vollem leveled once (Base Damage from slot leveling is limited to the slot count).
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    edited February 2023
    My Sampire has 0 Taming/Lore (doesn't have JoAT, and doesn't use skill jewelry), and is able to control his Vollem just fine.
    That Vollem was a current 3 slot Vollem, that i slot leveled to 4 and gave abilities to (it does have 0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR). I had to be careful not to add too many selections, or his Taming requirement would've went above 30.0, and i wouldn't be able to control him then if it did.
    My Sampire's Vollem provides 120 Discord (which is a very powerful debuff), and also applies Armor Pierce, which makes the victim take 10% more damage from all sources for 3 seconds (further increasing my damage output).

    My Prospector (Mining/LJ/Fishing) char uses a pre-patch 2 slot Vollem that was leveled to 3 slots, so it can guard him as he uses a 1 slot Fire Beetle and 1 slot Giant Beetle at the same time. The Vollem is Magery+AI, and kills basically anything i come across as i harvest resources.
    Downside to pre-patch is, that a pre-patch Vollem leveled once, doesn't end up with as high of a Base Damage as a current Vollem leveled once (Base Damage from slot leveling is limited to the slot count).
    @PlayerSkillFTW

    Thank you for your clarification, it surely helps a lot to better understand.

    I still have a few more questions, if i can ask, to further understand.

    You mention in this last reply, "I had to be careful not to add too many selections, or his Taming requirement would've went above 30.0, and i wouldn't be able to control him then if it did. ".

    I was not aware of the fact that one can "estimate", while undergoing the "Planning" of a pet's Training, how each and every single decision may impact that pet's Taming Requirement.

    In the Pet Training PLANNER, I cannot see, when planning a given investment of training points on ones own pet, "how" that sending of points would then affect the Taming requirement for that pet.

    And also the UO CAH "Pet Planner" at https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-planner , that I know of, does not have among its features the ability to see how a Planned Training for a pet would eventually impact its Taming Requirements.

    So, may I ask how you were able to "monitor", while you were planning the Vollem Training, adding what and how many points would then have had what impact on its final Taming Requirement ?

    You cleared also that the Vollem was a 3 slot so, it only underwent 1 training stage.

    From the Picture you have posted of ENTROPY, I can see that in 1 Training stage it was added:

    Resists 80/80/30/33/80  --> how many training points spent here ?
    Hit Points 303 --> how many training points spent here ?
    Strength 511 --> how many training points spent here ?
    Dexterity/Stamina 150 (but this should not require any sending of training points if done before the training).
    Discordance 120 + Armor Pierce Enhancements. 501+100=601 points
    0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR as you kindly clarified in your last post. 48+360=408 points

    Without knowing what the starting intensity was of your 3 slots Vollem (i.e. the starting stats to which you then applied the 1 stage training to bring it to where it is now), it is not possible to figure out whether your 3 slots Vollem was a very high (and rare to get) Intensity Vollem or just an ordinary, average one.

    But, to reach that training in just 1 stage of Training seems a whole lot of points considering that the Enhancements and Regens alone already used up 1,009 training points and that 1 Training Stage gives a total, if I remember correctly, of about 1,500 training points.

    Thus, how could you be able, with 491 points left, to fit in all those Resists, Hit Points and Strength, assuming that you raised the Dexterity to 150 before actually starting the 1 stage Training of Entropy ?

    Thank you so much for the kind help and clarification to better understand.
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 613
    popps said:

    So, may I ask how you were able to "monitor", while you were planning the Vollem Training, adding what and how many points would then have had what impact on its final Taming Requirement ?

    You cleared also that the Vollem was a 3 slot so, it only underwent 1 training stage.

    From the Picture you have posted of ENTROPY, I can see that in 1 Training stage it was added:

    Resists 80/80/30/33/80  --> how many training points spent here ?
    Hit Points 303 --> how many training points spent here ?
    Strength 511 --> how many training points spent here ?
    Dexterity/Stamina 150 (but this should not require any sending of training points if done before the training).
    Discordance 120 + Armor Pierce Enhancements. 501+100=601 points
    0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR as you kindly clarified in your last post. 48+360=408 points

    Without knowing what the starting intensity was of your 3 slots Vollem (i.e. the starting stats to which you then applied the 1 stage training to bring it to where it is now), it is not possible to figure out whether your 3 slots Vollem was a very high (and rare to get) Intensity Vollem or just an ordinary, average one.

    But, to reach that training in just 1 stage of Training seems a whole lot of points considering that the Enhancements and Regens alone already used up 1,009 training points and that 1 Training Stage gives a total, if I remember correctly, of about 1,500 training points.

    Thus, how could you be able, with 491 points left, to fit in all those Resists, Hit Points and Strength, assuming that you raised the Dexterity to 150 before actually starting the 1 stage Training of Entropy ?
    I first tested the build on TC to ensure that the Vollem's final build would be under 30.0 Taming requirement.

    DEX/Stam were trained up to 125 naturally, then boosted to 150 with slot leveling. STR and HP were untouched. The only resists i touched was bringing Physical/Fire/Energy to max of 80. Discordance+120 Discord Scroll+AP were 701 points total.

    I actually could've gotten slightly more mana regeneration rate on that Vollem if i went for 700 INT, instead of 30 MR.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,013
    popps said:

    So, may I ask how you were able to "monitor", while you were planning the Vollem Training, adding what and how many points would then have had what impact on its final Taming Requirement ?

    You cleared also that the Vollem was a 3 slot so, it only underwent 1 training stage.

    From the Picture you have posted of ENTROPY, I can see that in 1 Training stage it was added:

    Resists 80/80/30/33/80  --> how many training points spent here ?
    Hit Points 303 --> how many training points spent here ?
    Strength 511 --> how many training points spent here ?
    Dexterity/Stamina 150 (but this should not require any sending of training points if done before the training).
    Discordance 120 + Armor Pierce Enhancements. 501+100=601 points
    0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR as you kindly clarified in your last post. 48+360=408 points

    Without knowing what the starting intensity was of your 3 slots Vollem (i.e. the starting stats to which you then applied the 1 stage training to bring it to where it is now), it is not possible to figure out whether your 3 slots Vollem was a very high (and rare to get) Intensity Vollem or just an ordinary, average one.

    But, to reach that training in just 1 stage of Training seems a whole lot of points considering that the Enhancements and Regens alone already used up 1,009 training points and that 1 Training Stage gives a total, if I remember correctly, of about 1,500 training points.

    Thus, how could you be able, with 491 points left, to fit in all those Resists, Hit Points and Strength, assuming that you raised the Dexterity to 150 before actually starting the 1 stage Training of Entropy ?
    I first tested the build on TC to ensure that the Vollem's final build would be under 30.0 Taming requirement.

    DEX/Stam were trained up to 125 naturally, then boosted to 150 with slot leveling. STR and HP were untouched. The only resists i touched was bringing Physical/Fire/Energy to max of 80. Discordance+120 Discord Scroll+AP were 701 points total.

    I actually could've gotten slightly more mana regeneration rate on that Vollem if i went for 700 INT, instead of 30 MR.
    I actually could've gotten slightly more mana regeneration rate on that Vollem if i went for 700 INT, instead of 30 MR.

    @PlayerSkillFTW

    Thank you for the further explaination which helps understand better the training choices.

    if going for 700 Intelligence instead of 30 MR would have given you a slightly higher regeneration rate, why did you choose otherwise ?

    What was your thinking against it ?
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