STOP the Events Drops Shard Bounding folly!

Riner

Ivenor said:

Riner said:

I do find the doom and gloom of the game ending due to shard bound items humous. Other games have lasted as long without any cross-server trading. Why it should condemn UO to a lingering death, yet other games manage to live on is a mystery to me. 

Because "Vuolsi così colà dove si puote ciò che si vuole / e più non dimandare." (Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy", Inf. V 22-24).

I.e.: aren't the PLAYERS that want to end UO.

On this last part we will have to agree to disagree, as I believe if either EA or Broadsword wanted UO closed it would have been shut down already. Other than legacy - of the game not the server - there would be no reason to keep it running. I do agree however that often the choices made, and support offered by Broadsword does make it appear that they wish it was gone. 

Ivenor

Riner said:

Ivenor said:

Riner said:

I do find the doom and gloom of the game ending due to shard bound items humous. Other games have lasted as long without any cross-server trading. Why it should condemn UO to a lingering death, yet other games manage to live on is a mystery to me. 

Because "Vuolsi così colà dove si puote ciò che si vuole / e più non dimandare." (Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy", Inf. V 22-24).

I.e.: aren't the PLAYERS that want to end UO.

On this last part we will have to agree to disagree, as I believe if either EA or Broadsword wanted UO closed it would have been shut down already. Other than legacy - of the game not the server - there would be no reason to keep it running. I do agree however that often the choices made, and support offered by Broadsword does make it appear that they wish it was gone. 

I totally agree with the parts of your post with which I don't disagree...

JenniferMarie

Welp, Riner actually said what I was thinking yesterday when I posted my warning about arguing over this ...

In all seriousness, though, if people keep beating the dead horse of Shard Bound vs. Not Shard Bound, watch the Devs shut down cross-shard transfers and trade - forcing people to stay in their lanes permanently and having to create all new characters and start over completely from scratch if they want to go to another shard.

Which is exactly what all other video games do - you want to change servers? You have to start over, and most of those games don't give you an option of "choosing" a server when you create a character, you get automatically thrown into whatever server has the best connection for you based on where you live. (Playing D3 or Immortal, I can't choose to play on a European server, I get thrown into a United States Server.)

Perhaps just accept that many new live dynamic events are going to have many - if not total - Shard Bound rewards and adjust your play style accordingly to achieve whatever it is you personally want to achieve. A handful of people taking advantage of cross shard transfers/trade to ridiculously drive up market rates on items while using bots or multiboxing to relentlessly farm on less populated shards are the reason this whole scenario exists - so turn your anger towards them and not the Dev team who are trying to curtail all of that.

Ivenor

JenniferMarie said:

(...)

Perhaps just accept that many new live dynamic events are going to have many - if not total - Shard Bound rewards and adjust your play style accordingly to achieve whatever it is you personally want to achieve. 

(...)

To put it simple: no, never.

I (general) pay to play, and I (general) decide how the game has to be implemented by the devs, the wage of which comes form my money.

If the decisions they take (IMO against the vast majority of player's opinion and catering only to a MINORITY of loud whiner) are not of my tastes, at a certain point I will cast the final vote with my wallet stopping playing, as HUNDREDS of players have done in the last couple of years.

Did you oversight my observation that ATL TOO is starting to depopulate, with TENS of 18x18 up for sale from MONTHS? Or you could take a look at the HUGE number of EMPTY Auction Safes that are around nowday, or the declining number of posts in this Forum (and in the "other one" too), und so weiter...

The Game is not dying by itself, but maybe "someone" is KILLING it.

Urge

Yeah they're not the only game in town anymore. 

There are even some freebies getting dangerously close to providing me with more fun OUT there.

Riner

Ivenor said:

JenniferMarie said:

(...)

Perhaps just accept that many new live dynamic events are going to have many - if not total - Shard Bound rewards and adjust your play style accordingly to achieve whatever it is you personally want to achieve. 

(...)

To put it simple: no, never.

I (general) pay to play, and I (general) decide how the game has to be implemented by the devs, the wage of which comes form my money.

If the decisions they take (IMO against the vast majority of player's opinion and catering only to a MINORITY of loud whiner) are not of my tastes, at a certain point I will cast the final vote with my wallet stopping playing, as HUNDREDS of players have done in the last couple of years.

Did you oversight my observation that ATL TOO is starting to depopulate, with TENS of 18x18 up for sale from MONTHS? Or you could take a look at the HUGE number of EMPTY Auction Safes that are around nowday, or the declining number of posts in this Forum (and in the "other one" too), und so weiter...

The Game is not dying by itself, but maybe "someone" is KILLING it.

Couple of things here.

From today's general chat, Selling Malas Desert 18x18 1.2p Totally Unblocked! Awesome! Gating in Luna! Thanks! Hardly seems to come from a shard with tens of 18x18 up for sale for months. If perhaps they have been, people should rethink their current pricing. 

Secondly, you make the assumption from your narrow view that the numbers on Atlantic are decreasing, which may or may not be true. That those people have left the game, again you have no way of knowing this. That this is caused by shard bound items and dissatisfaction of other game policies, and not the new freedom experienced by the lifting of covid restrictions, which was a boom to online gaming in general.  Finally, that this will lead to the total demise of UO. This sounds very much like all of those who see the end of the world right around the corner. 

I'd rather assume that those who do know exactly how many are playing each shard, how many are leaving the game, or how many are moving to someplace less crowded are making decisions which best serve the complete community, not just a few folks from a packed shard who voice their opinion here. Frankly, what have we seen, around a dozen people who are complaining about this issue here? That doesn't even come to 1% of the population of Atlantic not to mention the rest of the servers. Who exactly is the MINORITY of loud whiners?

I'm pretty sure this subject has been beat to death at this point with both sides making solid arguments for their position. Perhaps it will influence the Dev team to reconsider the shard bound property, perhaps not. Maybe they will decide to make a trading shard that everything shard bound can go to for cross server movement and leaves account bound. In the end those with a financial interest in seeing this game does well will continue to decide what they think works best for everyone, right or wrong. 

Ivenor

Riner said:

Ivenor said:

JenniferMarie said:

(...)

Perhaps just accept that many new live dynamic events are going to have many - if not total - Shard Bound rewards and adjust your play style accordingly to achieve whatever it is you personally want to achieve. 

(...)

To put it simple: no, never.

I (general) pay to play, and I (general) decide how the game has to be implemented by the devs, the wage of which comes form my money.

If the decisions they take (IMO against the vast majority of player's opinion and catering only to a MINORITY of loud whiner) are not of my tastes, at a certain point I will cast the final vote with my wallet stopping playing, as HUNDREDS of players have done in the last couple of years.

Did you oversight my observation that ATL TOO is starting to depopulate, with TENS of 18x18 up for sale from MONTHS? Or you could take a look at the HUGE number of EMPTY Auction Safes that are around nowday, or the declining number of posts in this Forum (and in the "other one" too), und so weiter...

The Game is not dying by itself, but maybe "someone" is KILLING it.

(...)
In the end those with a financial interest in seeing this game does well will continue to decide what they think works best for everyone, right or wrong. 

That's your basic error: thinking that these people still exist (at least if you refers to the BS side...).

And about the number of 18x18 for sale on ATL... take a stroll around any facet and count them.

JenniferMarie

No one has ever stopped consumers from "voting with their wallets" by not paying for something that no longer satisfies a need/want/desire. If you're not happy, by all means ...

But just remember - the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease. Sometimes, it just convinces the wagon driver to tear the thing down and move on.

Ivenor

JenniferMarie said:

No one has ever stopped consumers from "voting with their wallets" by not paying for something that no longer satisfies a need/want/desire. If you're not happy, by all means ...

But just remember - the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease. Sometimes, it just convinces the wagon driver to tear the thing down and move on.

They are already tearing down all the circus: haven't anyone heard anything from them from October, 19?

JenniferMarie

no idea

Arnold7

Maybe a good time to end this discussion.  Topic has been beat to death don’t need to do the same to the players.

Ivenor

JenniferMarie said:

no idea

Exactly.

Ivenor

Arnold7 said:

Maybe a good time to end this discussion.  Topic has been beat to death don’t need to do the same to the players.

The “good time” to close it would be AFTER one of our Overlords had given some ANSWERS. But reality being what it is is more probable that a Headless One will learn to sing than to receive ANY RATIONAL EXPLANATION for the darn SB, so I suspect that we will hear shortly from our beloved Moderators…

Ivenor

Urge said:

Yeah they're not the only game in town anymore. 

There are even some freebies getting dangerously close to providing me with more fun OUT there.

Seth

Urge said:

Yeah they're not the only game in town anymore. 

There are even some freebies getting dangerously close to providing me with more fun OUT there.

Yeah, they don't fix bugs that destroys fun, but like to think they are doing good to "fix" things for those few whiners but in fact they just destroyed proven systems like shard transfer that kept the game alive longer for 20 over years and paying their salary to this point. In fact i kept my other account alive looking forward for the 14 year Shard Transfer Shield reward soon but now it feels like I have paid $10 x14x12 $1680 for nothing because they stopped us from using them.

Thanks to those who keep singing mindlessly about how good is shard bound. You are all liars about how good this is.

I would not be playing this game if not for shard transfers as I would have to start all over from another shard because of missing item. Oh yes, which shard to pick if not for shard transfers - obviously everyone will pick the most Populated because that is where you are likely to find those RARE shardbound items.

Its time to leave the game, soon, since low pop shard isn't going to work and high pop shard is just too laggy.

They won't stop UO overnight. They will start by cutting off all the Low Pop shards because its no longer economical to sustain and players will gradually leave because of SHARD BOUND crap.

Ivenor

Seth said:

Urge said:

Yeah they're not the only game in town anymore. 

There are even some freebies getting dangerously close to providing me with more fun OUT there.

Yeah, they don't fix bugs that destroys fun, but like to think they are doing good to "fix" things for those few whiners but in fact they just destroyed proven systems like shard transfer that kept the game alive longer for 20 over years and paying their salary to this point. In fact i kept my other account alive looking forward for the 14 year Shard Transfer Shield reward soon but now it feels like I have paid $10 x14x12 $1680 for nothing because they stopped us from using them.

Thanks to those who keep singing mindlessly about how good is shard bound. You are all liars about how good this is.

I would not be playing this game if not for shard transfers as I would have to start all over from another shard because of missing item. Oh yes, which shard to pick if not for shard transfers - obviously everyone will pick the most Populated because that is where you are likely to find those RARE shardbound items.

Its time to leave the game, soon, since low pop shard isn't going to work and high pop shard is just too laggy.

They won't stop UO overnight. They will start by cutting off all the Low Pop shards because its no longer economical to sustain and players will gradually leave because of SHARD BOUND crap.

"First they came for the Low Pop Shards

And I did not speak out

Because I didn't play in a Low Pop Shard..."

CovenantX

The only thing the devs need to stop doing is not having the Treasure's Of- events not being activated in fel for the full duration of the event on Every shard.

I'd like to see the dungeon revamps start up again as well, add spawns with bosses to each dungeon based on the dungeons theme (both trammel & fel, as well as other facets)

Shame =  elemental based-spawn.  it doesn't have to be a traditional champ spawn, but the rewards should be solely obtainable in those dungeons, perhaps based on the opposing slayer groups..

Undead vs Repond

Arachnid vs Reptile

Demon vs Elemental/Fey

I feel like they lost interest after trammel despise revamp, cause of the backlash,  the problem with it (IMO) is that there's nothing to do in the entire dungeon except kill the boss.  3 levels of dungeon for 1 boss.  the rest of the revamps are good, but the loot the 'revamped' mobs drop have a serious lack of quality when compared to legacy mobs in other non-revamped areas.

for example a 'blood elemental' in wind, ilshenar, & from t-maps are super weak but very often drop both higher quality & quantity of items than the blood elementals in shame.

Ivenor

CovenantX said:

The only thing the devs need to stop doing is not having the Treasure's Of- events not being activated in fel for the full duration of the event on Every shard.

I'd like to see the dungeon revamps start up again as well, add spawns with bosses to each dungeon based on the dungeons theme (both trammel & fel, as well as other facets)

Shame =  elemental based-spawn.  it doesn't have to be a traditional champ spawn, but the rewards should be solely obtainable in those dungeons, perhaps based on the opposing slayer groups..

Undead vs Repond

Arachnid vs Reptile

Demon vs Elemental/Fey

I feel like they lost interest after trammel despise revamp, cause of the backlash,  the problem with it (IMO) is that there's nothing to do in the entire dungeon except kill the boss.  3 levels of dungeon for 1 boss.  the rest of the revamps are good, but the loot the 'revamped' mobs drop have a serious lack of quality when compared to legacy mobs in other non-revamped areas.

for example a 'blood elemental' in wind, ilshenar, & from t-maps are super weak but very often drop both higher quality & quantity of items than the blood elementals in shame.

I could even agree, but... what has this to do with Shard Bounding?

CovenantX

Ivenor said:

I could even agree, but... what has this to do with Shard Bounding?

 Nothing really to do with shard-bound items.

I don't really have a problem with shard-bound being a thing personally, except Shard-bound wasn't added early enough. -Ideally, it should have been done at or shortly after shard-transfers came out.

Shard-bound isn't on enough items from other sources. not just "Treasure's of" events, or the odd-ball mastery (which doesn't really count on consumable items) & VvV items.

 Inflation is so high in UO because there's such a vast amount of gold in circulation, not enough players for it to circulate between and very little gold is being removed (deleted) from the game.  shard-bound doesn't really have an impact on that.

Urge

Seth said:

Yeah, they don't fix bugs that destroys fun, but like to think they are doing good to "fix" things for those few whiners but in fact they just destroyed proven systems like shard transfer that kept the game alive longer for 20 over years and paying their salary to this point. In fact i kept my other account alive looking forward for the 14 year Shard Transfer Shield reward soon but now it feels like I have paid $10 x14x12 $1680 for nothing because they stopped us from using them.

Thanks to those who keep singing mindlessly about how good is shard bound. You are all liars about how good this is.

I would not be playing this game if not for shard transfers as I would have to start all over from another shard because of missing item. Oh yes, which shard to pick if not for shard transfers - obviously everyone will pick the most Populated because that is where you are likely to find those RARE shardbound items.

Its time to leave the game, soon, since low pop shard isn't going to work and high pop shard is just too laggy.

They won't stop UO overnight. They will start by cutting off all the Low Pop shards because its no longer economical to sustain and players will gradually leave because of SHARD BOUND crap.

Almost read my mind. It's not just the shard bound. I have a grocery list of gripes that have been steadily growing for a while now. 

username

JenniferMarie said:

Welp, Riner actually said what I was thinking yesterday when I posted my warning about arguing over this ...

In all seriousness, though, if people keep beating the dead horse of Shard Bound vs. Not Shard Bound, watch the Devs shut down cross-shard transfers and trade - forcing people to stay in their lanes permanently and having to create all new characters and start over completely from scratch if they want to go to another shard.

Which is exactly what all other video games do - you want to change servers? You have to start over, and most of those games don't give you an option of "choosing" a server when you create a character, you get automatically thrown into whatever server has the best connection for you based on where you live. (Playing D3 or Immortal, I can't choose to play on a European server, I get thrown into a United States Server.)

Perhaps just accept that many new live dynamic events are going to have many - if not total - Shard Bound rewards and adjust your play style accordingly to achieve whatever it is you personally want to achieve. A handful of people taking advantage of cross shard transfers/trade to ridiculously drive up market rates on items while using bots or multiboxing to relentlessly farm on less populated shards are the reason this whole scenario exists - so turn your anger towards them and not the Dev team who are trying to curtail all of that.

They will never shut down cross shard transfer.
The largest games all allow cross server transfer.
The biggest point you're missing in your attempted scare tactic posts is that these games don't have shard bound items, they have ACCOUNT BOUND ITEMS. Yes, we should have more account bound items in the game, do you disagree?

Skett

I disagree completely 

Ivenor

Skett said:

I disagree completely 

I totally agree with your disagreement!

ANY kind of Bounding limits FREE TRADE, and free trade (“legit” or not, ingame or outgame) is what keeps UO afloat!
One must be blind as a Malas Vampire Bat to be unable to see this!

JenniferMarie

Account Bound ... Shard Bound ... no limits on trade between accounts and shards ... doesn't really matter much to me. I don't play UO to gain stuff to sell, that's just a side benefit that increases the gold I have to buy things I want to collect.

I personally play UO to create unique houses, deco the way I want, craft, and do the things in game that I like: a few older quests, roof, live dynamic events, graveyards at Halloween, Krampus at christmas, etc ...

But the biggest reason I play UO is the friends I've made in game and the time we spend together doing stuff, talking in Discord, and just having some fun.

So continue the arguments about Shard Bound vs. No Shard Bound during every event. I'll go back to having fun and remove myself from the headache.

Ivenor

JenniferMarie said:

Account Bound ... Shard Bound ... no limits on trade between accounts and shards ... doesn't really matter much to me. I don't play UO to gain stuff to sell, that's just a side benefit that increases the gold I have to buy things I want to collect.

I personally play UO to create unique houses, deco the way I want, craft, and do the things in game that I like: a few older quests, roof, live dynamic events, graveyards at Halloween, Krampus at christmas, etc ...

But the biggest reason I play UO is the friends I've made in game and the time we spend together doing stuff, talking in Discord, and just having some fun.

So continue the arguments about Shard Bound vs. No Shard Bound during every event. I'll go back to having fun and remove myself from the headache.

I'm a Deco buff myself, "specialized" in Armor Sets, and that's exactly why I'm against ANY form of Bounding, Shard of Account.

In any case, good game to you!

AtomicBetty

CovenantX said:

The only thing the devs need to stop doing is not having the Treasure's Of- events not being activated in fel for the full duration of the event on Every shard.

I'd like to see the dungeon revamps start up again as well, add spawns with bosses to each dungeon based on the dungeons theme (both trammel & fel, as well as other facets)

Shame =  elemental based-spawn.  it doesn't have to be a traditional champ spawn, but the rewards should be solely obtainable in those dungeons, perhaps based on the opposing slayer groups..

Undead vs Repond

Arachnid vs Reptile

Demon vs Elemental/Fey

I feel like they lost interest after trammel despise revamp, cause of the backlash,  the problem with it (IMO) is that there's nothing to do in the entire dungeon except kill the boss.  3 levels of dungeon for 1 boss.  the rest of the revamps are good, but the loot the 'revamped' mobs drop have a serious lack of quality when compared to legacy mobs in other non-revamped areas.

for example a 'blood elemental' in wind, ilshenar, & from t-maps are super weak but very often drop both higher quality & quantity of items than the blood elementals in shame.

Every shard except atlantic is dead you need to move on and accept that.  Turning treasure events in felucca on every shard damages the game

CovenantX

AtomicBetty said:

Every shard except atlantic is dead you need to move on and accept that.  Turning treasure events in felucca on every shard damages the game

   No.... the unpunished scripting is what damages the game, not sure how anyone would miss the obvious... There's only what, 5-10 threads about it?

That's the point of the items being shard-bound, so people can't bot the hell out of the multitude of dead shards and expect to cash-out easy.  it works to an extent. as i said in my post earlier that you quoted, it would have been far more successful if it had been done before everyone made the move to one shard.

 How exactly would turning the events on in fel damage the game?  please don't disappoint,

Seth

CovenantX said:

AtomicBetty said:

Every shard except atlantic is dead you need to move on and accept that.  Turning treasure events in felucca on every shard damages the game

   No.... the unpunished scripting is what damages the game, not sure how anyone would miss the obvious... There's only what, 5-10 threads about it?

That's the point of the items being shard-bound, so people can't bot the hell out of the multitude of dead shards and expect to cash-out easy.  it works to an extent. as i said in my post earlier that you quoted, it would have been far more successful if it had been done before everyone made the move to one shard.

 How exactly would turning the events on in fel damage the game?  please don't disappoint,

Turning in fel won't damage the game.

Shard bound and then forcing turning in fel on every shard damage the game. As said before, it will wear down the players on low pop. My group of 6 players are down to 2. Good luck @Mesanna.

This isn't a troll, it's a gentle warning of what is to come when you slowly destroyed a proven system created by our smart predecessors for over 20 years ago

Seth

Then now for ToT i don't have time to play on 2 of the 3 shards that I usually play. So I am forced to buy from others, and they are so expensive if I am lucky to find anyone selling. 

If they are non whatever-bound, i can just share 1 equipment between all my 3 accounts on all 3 shards. I don't play multibox so I login only one char at a time.

NO to shard bound. It's destroying my game!

CovenantX

Cheating is destroying the game, That and some very poor decisions the dev team makes to limit the amount of potential fun half the player-base needs to keep them playing, in fact without the out-of-control cheating going on, most of the issues wouldn't even exist, certainly nowhere near the extent they exist right now.

Pvpers are the first to quit, always have been, as it's literally the ONLY aspect of the game that requires players to directly interact with each other.  

Third-party client use, that is supposed to be a ban-able offense goes completely unpunished for several years doesn't seem to have any changes coming anytime soon either.

Forum rules don't allow people to post names of these programs (as if everyone hasn't already f***ing known each and every one of them for years now already- LOL) it's been beyond ridiculous for quite some time.

Seth said:

Then now for ToT i don't have time to play on 2 of the 3 shards that I usually play. So I am forced to buy from others, and they are so expensive if I am lucky to find anyone selling. 

If they are non whatever-bound, i can just share 1 equipment between all my 3 accounts on all 3 shards. I don't play multibox so I login only one char at a time.

NO to shard bound. It's destroying my game!

No time to play 2 of the 3 shards & you don't want to buy from other players... that's quite the predicament.  I don't mind buying from other players... because well for one, when you're bored as F**K from the same event over and over without fel-activity, i'd rather just buy everything instead of waste my time doing boring content. that's just me though. as i said, primary reason for me playing UO is pvp.

Seth said:

Turning in fel won't damage the game.

Shard bound and then forcing turning in fel on every shard damage the game. As said before, it will wear down the players on low pop. My group of 6 players are down to 2. Good luck @ Mesanna.

This isn't a troll, it's a gentle warning of what is to come when you slowly destroyed a proven system created by our smart predecessors for over 20 years ago

    I know turning it on in fel won't damage the game.  I fully support the idea of fel drops being cursed as well.  there's gotta be some risk/reward for killing other players after all, other then time of course..

 If anything it'll add more powerscrolls* and more drops to the market for people to buy... which does bring the prices down, and it promotes cross-shard play with the pvp that it brings.

*if the event dungeon even has a champion spawn (not always applicable)

 your group of 6 players down to 2, all caused by shard-bound items?  the only way that could be true is the only point for them farming the event is to make gold or $.