Could we get Anti-Virtue Titles

Cookie

Many seem confused to me.

Felucca should have the Virtues, as the good, honourable, brave people live there.

Trammel Easy Mode should have the Anti Virtues as the Lazy, Prideful, Cowardly, Slothlike, Deceitful, Shameful, Corrupt, Greedy players play there.

Everyone see's and knows this, but no-one can admit it.

Don't take this as insulting, I'm sure you don't all mean it as an insult when you all mistakenly get it wrong and quote it incorrectly vice-versa.

Mariah

Some posts have been removed, please do not start with the personal attacks and erroneous assumptions about other players.

JohnKnighthawke

Mariah said:

Some posts have been removed, please do not start with the personal attacks and erroneous assumptions about other players.

*looks at the post above yours, then reads this post, and shrugs*

Mariah

While Cookie's post isn't exactly complimentary, it's not 'personal' in that he doesn't name anyone or attack a specific person.  It is somewhat disingenous, most of us are aware that there are both pleasant and unpleasant players on both facets.

 I did kind of wonder how he would classify players like me who have 2 homes, one in Tram and one in Fel.

Riner

@Mariah That would mean you clearly have good days and bad days and are ready for each! 

Cookie

JohnKnighthawke said:

Mariah said:

Some posts have been removed, please do not start with the personal attacks and erroneous assumptions about other players.

*looks at the post above yours, then reads this post, and shrugs*

Maybe I'm role playing, and you don't get it

Maybe I'm trolling, maybe I'm being serious - maybe it is all of the above.

But it was not personal, it was me holding up a mirror to the many who blithely carry-on life with just one viewpoint and think they are right

Like I said, no need to feel insulted, so many posts hold the opposite viewpoint, and do not think they are being insulting.

For an opinion on the original Topic - for sure - have the Anti Virtue titles - but then my point becomes extremely valid - Surely Felucca should have the Virtue Titles, and Trammel the Anti-Virtues ?

Yoshi

"how do you personally attack anyone even by naming them?

I don't think cookie is his real name"

Riner

I tend to find myself in agreement with @Cookie as far as the idea that Virtue Titles should be fought in Fel, as that is where the Virtuous would go to fight evil and that those seeking an Anti-Virtue title would seek it out in Tram, as they would wish to fight those who held positive Virtues. Unfortunately, we a rule set which prohibits those who commit crimes from venturing into Tram and thus they would have no path to an Anti-Virtue title. 

I believe the best alternative is to have shrine wars allowing the titles on both shards.  

JenniferMarie

Just to throw out a point that hasn't been touched upon ... .. ... a lot of people who prefer their toons to be red will use pardons to go blue to get something from Tram (event rewards, shrine titles, etc) and then go to Fel and back to red. That's why pardons exist.

And plenty of other PvPers stay blue and prefer to think of themselves as virtuous people fighting against murderers and the corrupt in Fel.

There are as many different ways to be good or bad or anywhere in between as there are people who play UO - so things like Shrine battles should be both Tram & Fel.

JohnKnighthawke

Cookie said:

JohnKnighthawke said:

Mariah said:

Some posts have been removed, please do not start with the personal attacks and erroneous assumptions about other players.

*looks at the post above yours, then reads this post, and shrugs*

Maybe I'm role playing, and you don't get it

Maybe I'm trolling, maybe I'm being serious - maybe it is all of the above.

But it was not personal, it was me holding up a mirror to the many who blithely carry-on life with just one viewpoint and think they are right

Like I said, no need to feel insulted, so many posts hold the opposite viewpoint, and do not think they are being insulting.

For an opinion on the original Topic - for sure - have the Anti Virtue titles - but then my point becomes extremely valid - Surely Felucca should have the Virtue Titles, and Trammel the Anti-Virtues ?

The proposition on the table was that there were more "jerks" in Trammel due to the nature of the rules set. This proposition is demonstrably incorrect, on the facts. Here is my reply to the earlier post, complete with supporting link.

[[Not correct. In reality what happened was that the jerks banded together for the purposes of being jerks, and forced everyone else out. They then could get away with whatever they wanted with no consequences outside being red and that's easy to remedy by having multiple characters. This essay on UO's early history:

https://massivelyop.com/2022/09/11/the-game-archaeologist-the-legacy-of-ultima-online/

admits that even as the folks who admit it clearly preferred the Fel lifestyle to playing the game and interacting on a consensual basis with other players. Consequences and player justice is a story y'all like to tell but it's just as much a fantasy as UO's lore is.]]

I know I won't convince you or your friend there, but the point is for others.

As to Anti-Virtue tiles in either Felucca or Trammel, I honestly don't care. I've long-supported the idea that everything should be available in both rules sets, just some things should be easier to get in one or the other. (For example, Doom artifacts easier in Trammel, 120 power scrolls easier in Felucca.) And in this manner we can have it both ways: Everything available to everyone but each rules set gets to maintain a sense of ownership over stuff that spawns easier and more-often there.

Lord_Nythrax

Whenever anyone proposes anything be added to the game, someone comes along and says it should only be in Felucca, because playing in Felucca makes you superior, and the gimpy poorly-balanced PVP in UO is actually the crucible of all character and meaning. To the extent that it's anything other than predictable background noise at this point, it's comical.

Nobody cares. Someone has repeated this routine literally every time anything has ever been added to the game in the last twenty-two years and it never happens and nobody ever cares. It's been actual decades at this point, and the part where the developers decide that playing PVP makes you so special and important that they should create exclusive content for you just isn't coming.