Samp's Don't Need Nerfing They Need Better Manners

JackFlashUk

Popps. As requested above. SHOW us your char template.  As always ask endless questions but never include your template. Guarantee that’s where the problem is but why won’t you share it ?

Pawain

JackFlashUk said:

Popps. As requested above. SHOW us your char template.  As always ask endless questions but never include your template. Guarantee that’s where the problem is but why won’t you share it ?

It is a top secret killing machine that can mine the dungeon and cook the mobs while darning his socks.

Seth

 

that is overpowered...

Lord_Frodo

OMG  How in the world can anybody be so absolutely clueless about STATS that has been playing UO for even 1 year.

JackFlashUk

Once again he scurries off to hide when he is challenged. Prob now thinking up the next dumb topic to debate to death 

Grimbeard

I think it's because they run in everywhere everytime (Leroy Jenkins clearly a sampire) this messes with everyone's targeting even other sampire so maybe slow down? 

keven2002

Based on Kyronix reply to me in the monster density thread; it is encouraged to be Leroy Jenkins and run ahead of others to rack up kills. He also said If people don't like that they should probably play a single player game (which UO is not). 

I find it pretty ironic that this is their stance though because if they truly wanted to allow full competition they would open up Fel so that the Leroy Jenkin's of the world would also need to compete with someone PKing them for being a jerk. However they only give the most competitive shards 1 weekend out of 3 months where Fel is open.

LilyGrace

keven2002 said:

Based on Kyronix reply to me in the monster density thread; it is encouraged to be Leroy Jenkins and run ahead of others to rack up kills. He also said If people don't like that they should probably play a single player game (which UO is not). 

I find it pretty ironic that this is their stance though because if they truly wanted to allow full competition they would open up Fel so that the Leroy Jenkin's of the world would also need to compete with someone PKing them for being a jerk. However they only give the most competitive shards 1 weekend out of 3 months where Fel is open.

Kyronix said:

@ keven2002 - Every time you've posted I've looked on Origin and have found large swaths of unkilled mobs roaming about the dungeon.  I appreciate the feedback, but the only way for this to be a situation where you don't have to compete against other players is for this to be a single player game - which we are not.  

That's a bit of embellishing you're doing there.  Honestly, I've only skimmed the 'monster density' thread, but it sort of looks like everyone's right, really.

For sure some, because of their build, play style (I substituted play style for douche-baggery), and skill level can charge ahead of others like they own the joint and kill everything pretty much instantly instead of sharing the space. All they leave behind for others is the stuff they're proud not to kill, and use as an excuse for not grouping to help fellow players. LOL! Lame

But there are also players with those same builds who cooperatively share the space, making it fun to group. Especially when it's time to clean the dungeon up because there's nowhere left to go where paras haven't been stacked up.

I admit I was irritated in the moment when I started this thread. Seeing the same names days in a row, all different times of day, who were uber rude in ways already described, and it got under my skin.

If we were all in Felucca there very well may be players who'd have something to say about how the former behave. And they might level the playing field. But there'd also be players like me getting their butts handed to them fairly often by both mobs and pvpers.  I suppose it would depend on the day! 

On that same front though, why can't both Felucca and Tram dungeons be a full-time part of these events? I'm sure there's been explanations for this. Is it because it would be twice as difficult to canvas the dungeons to stop exploiters and cheaters? That would be my guess.

keven2002

@LilyGrace - On ATL the Devs bumped up the spawn to the point of "sufficient". I find there to be enough "swaths" of monsters spawning all over the place to counteract the number of people. Would I prefer more spawn? Absolutely but I understand not everyone is an experienced veteran with high end suits so I didn't think much of it until I hopped on Origin.

When I started doing Deceit on Origin it was an immediate and clear difference on spawn density which even when using my basic warrior with an average suit was child's play. The fact that someone else created a thread on the topic and literally everyone else there posting the same general thinking (not only about Origin but other shards too) tells me that it's not me being a super efficient killing machine, the spawn density is actually light. I have yet to see someone say that the spawn is too much. Instead of giving the paying customers more spawn like they asked for (especially to help out with a little dungeon courtesy) we were told "No" and that it's a multi-player game so play accordingly. So I apologize in advance for coming through killing everything in front of you and decreasing your drops and overall enjoyment. I will also apologize for using multiple clients to toggle between to increase my drops (and further decrease yours) on Origin given that it's so incredibly easy; there is virtually no threat of dying. 

Fact remains that the Devs yet again speak out of both sides of their mouth. They say something about competition yet won't open it up to Fel for the whole event. They do things like create "anti-AFK" penalties but keep spawn density low to encourage that type of play. The story line is about fighting back the followers of the archlich Juo'nar in Deceit but we are essentially facing greater threat/competition from other players; not the spawn. 

The end result is that people are being encouraged and actually rewards for being selfish and not playing as a group/team to simply go run ahead of someone else to kill things ahead of them; leaving only corpses on the screen as they follow through. It should be simple enough to increase the density as requested so that everyone can get involved and group play would occur naturally but until then people have no reasons not to be selfish and act like jerks. At this point, I can't even blame the players anymore since the Devs have been directly asked to increase the spawn and they have declined.

LilyGrace

 Kev, thank you for taking the time to explain thoroughly re spawn rate. I've definitely noticed a difference in the density of the spawn from shard to shard. Even with the player population looking roughly the same from shard to shard (that I visited), some shards have players wandering through empty levels of light to no spawn at all. While others have monsters spawning quickly. 

I don't understand why that is so.  I can understand the frustration of those looking to find mobs and finding none.  :-/ 

keven2002

Kyronix said that it's determined by population (assuming of the dungeon). I understand that if the dungeon is empty that it's not going to have the same spawn rate as ATL does but the problem I'm seeing is that even when I'm the only person there, when I enter Deceit on level 1 on Origin I'll see a good density of spawn to kill but as soon as I clear that hallway and the rooms; I have to basically run to level 2 before I find another "swath".

So from the fountain room all the way down to level 2 I might see a total of 8 monsters after I just killed like 25-30. I'm going to post my latest experience for Origin in the spawn density thread but overall it was basically as you noted... after killing accumulated mobs I'd have to basically change levels to find another; otherwise if I'm running screen to screen it's only 1 monster here and 1 over there. Extremely boring.

JohnKnighthawke

I've seen bad behavior on GL but not as much as it seems other shards have. Either we're just lucky or I haven't been noticing things.

keven2002

On ATL you can't notice it too much because there are so many people running all around. I have noticed it a few times though where I'll be on my tamer (elf using a triton) and a sampire will run past with their string of paragons which almost always seem to lock on me. Kind of annoying but usually I'm able to hit my recall macro when I see that to get to safety. 

Ophelia

Yeah it is annoying when a sampire has an entire dungeon to maneuver, but somehow think they are doing a service by stopping on every player they see and killing the mobs around them and then running onward.  

Personally when I get really annoyed by someone constantly doing this, I start following them for a while and use chainlightning with the appropriate mob slayer book as they attempt to whirlwind. See how they like less life leeching for a while. 

It would be nice for the developers to work some sort of solution to sampires being so OP during these events. Or maybe its time to disable the alt follow button for players.

Estel_Randir

Same old behavior as the old days just in a different form.

In the very old days of UO when fame/karma titles actually meant something (bragging rites). The fame/karma from killing a mob came from the killing blow. You would see the following behavior constantly in the following example that actually happened to me. I finally worked up the courage & confidence to take on tougher mobs. So here I am down in Shame excited about my first solo killing of a blood elemental for that sweet high karma / fame boost. Some jerk comes up & stands there watching. The last second before the mob dies, they blast the mob getting the killing blow and therefore the glory/fame/karma for my hard work. I got nothing.

Today? Different year, same behavior. We have numerous people come through Deceit stopping just long enough to whirlwind, AoE spell, or lightning strike everyone's mobs for one hit and moving on to the next group of mobs nearby. They do this the entire time they are in the dungeon. They will even come into a room where you are with one mob left just so they can tag it. Why? So they can do just enough damage to get credit for drops while you finish them off. You do the work, they attempt to take the credit.

Also annoying is the "other" set of players who will wait until you jump into a room full of mobs that they cannot handle and after you grab the aggro, 2 seconds later they rush into the room hitting all the mobs aggroed on you.

You cannot change the behavior of these players. No one owns a mob & it is not illegal to kill steal in UO (although purposely following a person around and literally attacking everything they do is actionable harassment). If you destroy the skill set, these people will simply find a new one to be jerks with. Nerfing templates is not the answer. Maybe if you have to do 51% damage on a mob in order to get "drop rights" this might curb the behavior. That way the person already attacking the mob has the advantage. But that penalizes co-operation when killing paragons. If you wont get any credit towards a drop, most people would not bother helping.

No easy solutions. I simply watch where these players are in the dungeon and try my best to kill the group of mobs before they get the opportunity to tag them. Does not always work out.

Riner

I hadn't really noticed until @popps made the observation but like every 3rd normal mummy I come across takes me at least 2 hits to kill. In addition, I find that poison elementals are taking 3 to 4 hits and normal spectral armors take at least 5 hits plus any misses. I know I have seen people kill them in 4 hits and really want to know what their tactic is? I mean this is costing me literal seconds each time I have to make an extra swing. I am barely getting 12 to 14 drops an hour on my sampire and yet I've heard others saying they are getting 15 to 18 drops. At this rate I'll be lucky to get a thousand drops by the end of December, and I'm sure others will be getting many more. Please share your tactics with me I really don't want to take the time to think it though myself. Thanks!!

Seth

The real problem is these dungeons are too  small and Dev resort to limiting spawn to control drops.

The current Treasures Event was based on Treasures of Tokuno, an entire facet.

Pls stop this small area event and give us entire facet.

Treasures of Eodon, Trammel, Ish, Malas, etc. Even entire Abyss and Underworld.

Classic dungeon was designed for Day 0 template not 2022.

Why not Treasures of Felucca? That will be Fun!

They need more creativity and believe in Abundance... Instead of focusing on Scarcity and Limitations - Create Fun and then Nerf it, Lmao 

This is a Game, we want Fun.

keven2002

Estel_Randir said:

No easy solutions. I simply watch where these players are in the dungeon and try my best to kill the group of mobs before they get the opportunity to tag them. Does not always work out.

I think the solution is very easy and has been asked by many people. Open up Fel.

Suddenly someone want's to be a jerk and go into a room full of stuff ahead of you? Just energy field them in or better yet just wait until they are low and kill them. Suddenly there becomes repercussions for actions...imagine that.

It's a bit ironic that Kyronix talks about these events being competition yet only has them open in Tram and only has a limited spawn rate. I think that events in Tram where players for all intent and purpose cannot interfere with other players should really only be a competition against the mobs (not other players).

Don't want to open it in Fel? Ok make these events work similar to the Void Pool where more and more waves of spawn are sent as they are killed until the eventual point where there is nobody alive in the dungeon and then it resets. People would learn to work together pretty quick if it meant playing as a team gets more drops for longer (again speaking on Tram only).

Urge

Seth said:

Pls stop this small area event and give us entire facet.

Treasures of Eodon, Trammel, Ish, Malas, etc. Even entire Abyss and Underworld.

Why not Treasures of Felucca? That will be Fun!

This is a Game, we want Fun.

I was going to say it's so we can police ourselves on the boxers and unattended but then i remembered...

Seth

Urge said:

Seth said:

Pls stop this small area event and give us entire facet.

Treasures of Eodon, Trammel, Ish, Malas, etc. Even entire Abyss and Underworld.

Why not Treasures of Felucca? That will be Fun!

This is a Game, we want Fun.

I was going to say it's so we can police ourselves on the boxers and unattended but then i remembered...

The space has to be large enough. Our characters are all so powerful and the classic dungeon seems smaller than my own houses added together - even for one player. We need a huge space so people stop complaining about others repeatedly run past and "stealing" the spawn.

These classic dungeons were built in 1997. We started with Vanquishing weapons only... and my mage wear underwear to pvp...

Urge

I know what you're saying but i was saying they did that so we wouldn't have people tucked away afk in little spots nobody goes to unnoticed but judging from the blatant actions in the confined classic dungeons it really doesn't matter. 

Riner

Seth said:

 We need a huge space so people stop complaining about others repeatedly run past and "stealing" the spawn.

This is part of the problem that people repeat this misconception. As long as people do enough damage to qualify for looting rights doesn't matter if one or ten people hit the damn thing. As much as it would be nice to have a larger area to hunt in for these events, we need more education of the player base on the idea that you gain from others hitting the spawn as it takes less time to die. I spend a lot of time killing paragons and see people run by because they don't want someone saying, "Hey! You're stealing my kill!" Please help educate others and don't repeat this falsehood.

Seth

Urge said:

I know what you're saying but i was saying they did that so we wouldn't have people tucked away afk in little spots nobody goes to unnoticed but judging from the blatant actions in the confined classic dungeons it really doesn't matter. 

Yup, it doesn't matter now since it seems messed up about afk and scripters.

I still prefer to focus in the game - I don't want to pay Sub and have to deal or talk about some sampires or multiboxers running pass me in big groups etc etc.

So a larger area means less likely they would affect me. If I find an AFK blocking a good spot i will report him after I try to talk to him.

Less chance of me dragging paragons on others too.

@Riner I might understand what you mean, but my point was more about how to make this current Treasures more playable and less problematic...

Grimbeard

A simple solution is in dungeon have forced walk 70% of my deaths are sampires running by which retargets the paragon also simply have next event in wind...

JohnKnighthawke

keven2002 said:

Estel_Randir said:

No easy solutions. I simply watch where these players are in the dungeon and try my best to kill the group of mobs before they get the opportunity to tag them. Does not always work out.

I think the solution is very easy and has been asked by many people. Open up Fel.

Suddenly someone want's to be a jerk and go into a room full of stuff ahead of you? Just energy field them in or better yet just wait until they are low and kill them. Suddenly there becomes repercussions for actions...imagine that.

Objectively speaking, based on actual pre-Trammel experience, and non-Trammel experience after Trammel was created, it's actually the jerks who have greater access to assistance, in the form of other jerks, than anyone with an anti-jerk mission.So, no, this wouldn't help. The idea of consequences for bad actions is just not consistent with what actually happened.

As to Kyronix saying this event should be a competition, I didn't actually notice him saying that. And I haven't been working the event like that. I've been playing it as "us against the spawn," like you said. (To me one of the many good things about Trammel is that the environment and monsters are objective obstacles. You either live or die, either get what you want or don't. There's no rolling into Global Chat to angrily explain why you actually won despite losing because your opponent's victory somehow didn't count.)

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I'm still doing ok, somehow. Kyronix please don't tweak it to further reward competitive behavior.