Wraith form vs vampiric embrace leech inconsistency

McDougle

The leeches with wraith form scale off spirit speak while vampiric embrace leeches do not .
Proposed fixed
Vampiric embrace leeches require spirt speak.

This brings them in line not only with other necro forms but every other skill set that requires a support skill

Yoshi

"this has been suggested before"

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/21370/#Comment_21370

Urge

Agreed. Most powerful solo temp ever in game has had it's day. It's time to move back towards the group Mmo it was designed to be. 

McDougle

Urge said:

Agreed. Most powerful solo temp ever in game has had it's day. It's time to move back towards the group Mmo it was designed to be. 

I 100% agree although wraith archers are just as much an abomination!! I want a bard build where i can use provo mastery without needing music...

McDougle

Urge said:

Agreed. Most powerful solo temp ever in game has had it's day. It's time to move back towards the group Mmo it was designed to be. 

The second part is another huge issue as a sampire can do most everything solo the developers keep creating more and more OP monsters leaving lesser builds in the dust

Urge

I don't mind the whammy so much as its a full complete hybrid. No real difference between that and a mage tamer or archer tamer. 

Archangel

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

Pawain

And they should only be able to wear approved colors!

McDougle

Archangel said:

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

I don't have a  sampire but i do feel there needs to be consistency in the way systems work..

Urge

Archangel said:

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

Samps require zero skill and allow bad players to fight almost any top level boss.

This temp has single handedly destroyed group play allowing anyone to solo anything in game. This dev team has just kept allowing it to happen. 

Pawain

McDougle said:

Archangel said:

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

I don't have a  sampire but i do feel there needs to be consistency in the way systems work..

They have plus and minus.
 
One changes you to a hideous form where you regen mana very fast. You can not ride a mount.

One leeches life on hits and does not have a hideous form and can ride a mount.

Two different things, you choose which you want.  

Things that are different are not consistent nor should they be.

All Magery skills do not scale with Eval.

Learn to play games as they were designed.

How far along are you and Popps with your game?

Urge

Pawain said:

All Magery skills do not scale with Eval.

Learn to play games as they were designed.

How far along are you and Popps with your game?

True but it was never stated if vamp form was designed or an oversight that like almost every other oversight/bug/exploit is "on the list to be looked into".

I did giggle at that last one. 

McDougle

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

Archangel said:

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

I don't have a  sampire but i do feel there needs to be consistency in the way systems work..

They have plus and minus.
 
One changes you to a hideous form where you regen mana very fast. You can not ride a mount.

One leeches life on hits and does not have a hideous form and can ride a mount.

Two different things, you choose which you want.  

Things that are different are not consistent nor should they be.

All Magery skills do not scale with Eval.

Learn to play games as they were designed.

How far along are you and Popps with your game?

And what about horrific beast?? Why do i need 120 xxx skill to make xxx work properly?? Why were all ninja forms crippled 

Pawain

Change them in the game you design.

My Ninja Tiger kills the heck out of stuff.  He don't need specials.

McDougle

Pawain said:

Change them in the game you design.

My Ninja Tiger kills the heck out of stuff.  He don't need specials.

I love change i just love consistency as well..

Seth

McDougle said:

Archangel said:

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

I don't have a  sampire but i do feel there needs to be consistency in the way systems work..

Then don't comment on templates that you never build before. You don't know what we went through and start dreaming of all sampires solo all bosses just because u saw one YouTube. Try it out before you post to nerf the template that you claim can solo kill anything in the game. Solo as in NO bard or healer support. 

Post the videos to prove YOU can do it then you have earned the rights to call to nerf a template that you have tried and tested.

McDougle

Seth said:

McDougle said:

Archangel said:

so you guys are really bad with your sampies and want to nerf everybody that enjoys being succesful using them. Nice. Any other templates that you are bad at and should be stopped? Please unburden your weeping souls if that relieves the misery.

I don't have a  sampire but i do feel there needs to be consistency in the way systems work..

Then don't comment on templates that you never build before. You don't know what we went through and start dreaming of all sampires solo all bosses just because u saw one YouTube. Try it out before you post to nerf the template that you claim can solo kill anything in the game. Solo as in NO bard or healer support. 

Post the videos to prove YOU can do it then you have earned the rights to call to nerf a template that you have tried and tested.

I don't need to have a sampire to want the same rules to apply to all skill dependency 

dvvid

Not all magery spells are affected by evaluating intelligence. 

Not all necromancy spells are affected by spirit speak. 

Same situation for both. Consistent. 

loop

dvvid said:

Not all magery spells are affected by evaluating intelligence. 

Not all necromancy spells are affected by spirit speak. 

Same situation for both. Consistent. 

For consistency, I suppose it would make sense for VE to remove the ability to ride a mount.

I’m not aware of any form spell that lets you ride a mount. Losing out on the mobility and the swamp dragon would be enough of a nerf, in my opinion.

While the effectiveness of the life leech gimmick and the template’s synergies were clearly an oversight, the ship has sailed on the matter, and I don’t know that a nerf is needed anymore than a nerf being needed for tamers, the other most popular template. I think it’s more perception than reality that you need to play a Sampire to be the most effective.

McDougle

Strangely enough the OP never mentioned sampires 

Seth

McDougle said:

Strangely enough the OP never mentioned sampires 

If you are such a newbie pls stop asking for a nerf when you don't even know Sampires are primary users of VE. You don't even know how the name S - ampire came from.

Yoshi

“It wouldn’t make a huge difference to sampires, I’m pretty sure with the amount of damage you deal, would still go from 1hp to 150 in one swing

But i don't think they are going to make any game improvememnts or bug fixes anymore"

AtomicBetty

Vampiric Embrace should also be a viable PvP form and some of its drawbacks removed.

keven2002

Once again with a lack of things to talk about (new content) people dive back into topics that have already been exhausted. 

For all the people that are saying that Sampire can solo anything; go take your Sampire to Scalis or anything else that have tainted life force (which they added in response to Sampires) and let me know how you do. 

If I thought it was actually do something, I'd also pull up the threads from literally like 3-4 months ago about Sampires weren't working very well in Destard and couldn't solo a paragon Shadow / AW / GD. But people are just bored and want to complain so I don't think it's worth my time.

If we are going for consistency, let's make all monsters like the ones that do double damage against pets while only taking half damage from them too because Tamer have been on easy street since the inception of the game. While we are at it let's make a tamer with Vet be required to use anatomy too because my warrior with healing needs anatomy to do anything. Consistency right?

McDougle

See it's not what sampires can or can't do that concerns me it's what my preferred build can no longer do due to being nerfed. As I've said many times pray sampire or wraith archers never become viable in pvp. it was close to being an issue with the bok fixing but you all got lucky...as far as saying the inconsistencies between forms is fine i just don't understand how or why you've become accustomed to accepting such low quality programming that its not only blindly accepted but venomously defended..

keven2002

McDougle said:

See it's not what sampires can or can't do that concerns me it's what my preferred build can no longer do due to being nerfed. As I've said many times pray sampire or wraith archers never become viable in pvp. it was close to being an issue with the bok fixing but you all got lucky...as far as saying the inconsistencies between forms is fine i just don't understand how or why you've become accustomed to accepting such low quality programming that its not only blindly accepted but venomously defended..

Ah so that makes more sense.... so to check my understanding, you are mad because something YOU liked was nerfed (supposedly) and now you want others to have things they liked nerfed. Makes sense. Also find it funny you mention PvP but claim everywhere else that you hate Fel and never go there (ie you don't PvP). More specifically all you claim to do is sail around and pirate/plunder/fish/bard. So why did you feel so compelled to create a thread on life leech which all fall outside of this topic?

Also, you seemed to have changed topics from your OP. First it was leech life using SS but now  that you mentioned "pray a sapire or wraith archer never becomes viable in PvP"; what are you actually complaining about (because these types of chars are NOT currently viable)? SMH.

McDougle

keven2002 said:

McDougle said:

See it's not what sampires can or can't do that concerns me it's what my preferred build can no longer do due to being nerfed. As I've said many times pray sampire or wraith archers never become viable in pvp. it was close to being an issue with the bok fixing but you all got lucky...as far as saying the inconsistencies between forms is fine i just don't understand how or why you've become accustomed to accepting such low quality programming that its not only blindly accepted but venomously defended..

Ah so that makes more sense.... so to check my understanding, you are mad because something YOU liked was nerfed (supposedly) and now you want others to have things they liked nerfed. Makes sense. Also find it funny you mention PvP but claim everywhere else that you hate Fel and never go there (ie you don't PvP). More specifically all you claim to do is sail around and pirate/plunder/fish/bard. So why did you feel so compelled to create a thread on life leech which all fall outside of this topic?

Also, you seemed to have changed topics from your OP. First it was leech life using SS but now  that you mentioned "pray a sapire or wraith archer never becomes viable in PvP"; what are you actually complaining about (because these types of chars are NOT currently viable)? SMH.

Are you not entertained..

LilyGrace

Can someone please take the nerf stick out of McDougle's hand before he gets the only decent melee tank nerfed, and whatever other stuff he's talking about nerfing? 

Urge said:

Agreed. Most powerful solo temp ever in game has had it's day. It's time to move back towards the group Mmo it was designed to be. 

I don't think you're considering how thin the UO population is nowadays on the majority of production shards. Hopefully NL will bring more of the collaborative play that is no longer successful on production shards, primarily due to low population. And by collaborative play I don't necessarily mean PvM always requiring group play. Personally, I'd like to see more interdependence between crafters, trades, fighters, etc.

With everything above set aside, there's always been a segment of the population that prefers solo play but still enjoys being a part of the overall player community. There are lots of players who only care to group occasionally. You'll create a lot of hardship for players if group play is forced on us to the point we can't have solo fun. Or if we're no longer successfully "grouping" with just one or two other players you pal around with.

Talk of nerfing samps seems pretty odd to me anyway, when it's so easy for tamers to solo so much of the game's content (which is not to say they should be nerfed either). There are other templates I read about where players say they can solo most everything in the game.

Of course, Power Player milage may vary on any of these successful solo builds. But just because there are power players that can create such exacting builds doesn't mean everyone can or does. Those who aren't power players will be punished most with the nerfing talked about here.

You seem bored, McDougle. You sound like another often bored player who posts here a lot. :-)

McDougle

LilyGrace said:

Can someone please take the nerf stick out of McDougle's hand before he gets the only decent melee tank nerfed, and whatever other stuff he's talking about nerfing? 

Urge said:

Agreed. Most powerful solo temp ever in game has had it's day. It's time to move back towards the group Mmo it was designed to be. 

I don't think you're considering how thin the UO population is nowadays on the majority of production shards. Hopefully NL will bring more of the collaborative play that is no longer successful on production shards, primarily due to low population. And by collaborative play I don't necessarily mean PvM always requiring group play. Personally, I'd like to see more interdependence between crafters, trades, fighters, etc.

With everything above set aside, there's always been a segment of the population that prefers solo play but still enjoys being a part of the overall player community. There are lots of players who only care to group occasionally. You'll create a lot of hardship for players if group play is forced on us to the point we can't have solo fun. Or if we're no longer successfully "grouping" with just one or two other players you pal around with.

Talk of nerfing samps seems pretty odd to me anyway, when it's so easy for tamers to solo so much of the game's content (which is not to say they should be nerfed either). There are other templates I read about where players say they can solo most everything in the game.

Of course, Power Player milage may vary on any of these successful solo builds. But just because there are power players that can create such exacting builds doesn't mean everyone can or does. Those who aren't power players will be punished most with the nerfing talked about here.

You seem bored, McDougle. You sound like another often bored player who posts here a lot. :-)

I do not believe people understand my objection these things should not work the way they do they are bugs or exploits we use.  i just want them to work consistently across all forms and skill sets...pointing out others that do not work correctly in defense of them is to me just insane. I understand that I'm not going to change anyone else's perception and shall not run up this hill anymore . And yes and I'm not the only restless bored dissatisfied player I'm just vocal about it I'd recommend you simply ignore my post and worry about the quiet ones who are simply closing accounts...

Seth

McDougle said:

LilyGrace said:

Can someone please take the nerf stick out of McDougle's hand before he gets the only decent melee tank nerfed, and whatever other stuff he's talking about nerfing? 

Urge said:

Agreed. Most powerful solo temp ever in game has had it's day. It's time to move back towards the group Mmo it was designed to be. 

I don't think you're considering how thin the UO population is nowadays on the majority of production shards. Hopefully NL will bring more of the collaborative play that is no longer successful on production shards, primarily due to low population. And by collaborative play I don't necessarily mean PvM always requiring group play. Personally, I'd like to see more interdependence between crafters, trades, fighters, etc.

With everything above set aside, there's always been a segment of the population that prefers solo play but still enjoys being a part of the overall player community. There are lots of players who only care to group occasionally. You'll create a lot of hardship for players if group play is forced on us to the point we can't have solo fun. Or if we're no longer successfully "grouping" with just one or two other players you pal around with.

Talk of nerfing samps seems pretty odd to me anyway, when it's so easy for tamers to solo so much of the game's content (which is not to say they should be nerfed either). There are other templates I read about where players say they can solo most everything in the game.

Of course, Power Player milage may vary on any of these successful solo builds. But just because there are power players that can create such exacting builds doesn't mean everyone can or does. Those who aren't power players will be punished most with the nerfing talked about here.

You seem bored, McDougle. You sound like another often bored player who posts here a lot. :-)

I do not believe people understand my objection these things should not work the way they do they are bugs or exploits we use.  i just want them to work consistently across all forms and skill sets...pointing out others that do not work correctly in defense of them is to me just insane. I understand that I'm not going to change anyone else's perception and shall not run up this hill anymore . And yes and I'm not the only restless bored dissatisfied player I'm just vocal about it I'd recommend you simply ignore my post and worry about the quiet ones who are simply closing accounts...

If the Dev make such a change as you asked there will be noisy and massive number account closure in the history of Ultima Online.

Stick to your usual complaints and once again to you and popps and anyone else stop messing with popular templates that existed for 20 over years and focus on what matters.

dvvid

We aren’t going to ignore your posts if we don’t like what is suggested. You only want positive replies or none at all?  This is a place for discussions. You bring up a topic and people respond.