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Does anyone know the ratio behind not permitting BOSS keys to be sold on Vendors ?

poppspopps Posts: 4,055
edited July 2022 in General Discussions
I often happen to see on General Chat, players advertising the sale of keys to this or that Boss hunt...

Clearly, if they do it, there is a market demand from players to prefer buying from other players keys to Medusa, Melisande or other Bosses rather then collecting them their own...

Yet, it is not permitted to place these keys on Vendors up for sale...

Does anyone know perhaps what the logic behind this prohibition is ?

I mean, if there is players willing to sell them, and players willing to buy them, why on earth prohibit their sale on Vendors ?

I do not get it.
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Comments

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,334
    Yes the rationale is simple. The keys expire and therefore cannot be placed on a vendor. 

    I'm guessing there is some type of difficulty coding the scenario where a key is placed on a vendor for X gold and nobody buys it so Y days later it expires. It's likely the same challenge as not allowing insured items to be placed on a vendor.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited July 2022
    keven2002 said:
    Yes the rationale is simple. The keys expire and therefore cannot be placed on a vendor. 

    I'm guessing there is some type of difficulty coding the scenario where a key is placed on a vendor for X gold and nobody buys it so Y days later it expires. It's likely the same challenge as not allowing insured items to be placed on a vendor.
    Well, if the icon that one gets when browsing the Vendor Search was to display the current timer on the keys, I do not see the problem... the buyer could not be scammed as they would hoover the mouse onto the icon of the key, read what the timer is at, and then buy the key(s) if that timer fits their needs...

    And when the timer expires, the key vanishes so, it would automatically disappearfrom that vendor's inventory...

    Honestly, I do not see the keys' timer to be of any impediment to having Boss keys be sellable on Vendors...
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,334
    Once again - you asked a question and it's answered. 

    There isn't really a need to debate it.

    IBTL
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited July 2022
    keven2002 said:
    Once again - you asked a question and it's answered. 

    There isn't really a need to debate it.

    IBTL
    I think otherwise since, personally, I consider the timer on the keys and hypothetical coding difficulties that "might" be associated to such a timer existing on keys, not sufficient to explain the prohibition of Boss keys being sold on Vendors....

    I mean, since there is players willing to buy them, and players willing to sell them, even if there might be some "extra" coding difficulties associated to permitting Vendors to sell them, this should still be done, since it would be beneficial to players and to their gameplay.

    I mean, if the end goal of Development is to come forward to players so as to have them more enjoy playing that game, and there is players who could benefit from a Development addition, then I do not see the reason why such addition should not be made available to players....
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    It's working fine why would this need to be fixed 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,185
    McDougle said:
    It's working fine why would this need to be fixed 
       
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited July 2022
    McDougle said:
    It's working fine why would this need to be fixed 
    Perhaps, just perhaps, because those shouting to buy Boss keys, and those shouting to sell Boss keys clutter the General Chat with their asking ?

    Not to mention, the time that both the vendors and the sellers need to waste asking to buy or sell in General Chat and this, only because these keys are prohibited, currently, to be sold through Vendors ?

    This is far from being players' friendly Design, clutters General Chat with buy/sell spammed messages which could be avoided if keys could be sold on Vendors and also force players either interested in buying them or selling them to have to spend countless of their time spamming General Chat rather then playing the game...

    Just perhaps....
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 626
    edited July 2022
    popps said:
    I mean, if there is players willing to sell them, and players willing to buy them, why on earth prohibit their sale on Vendors ?
    Reminds me of a George Carlin quote. "If selling is legal, and ****ing is legal, then why is selling ****ing illegal?"

    Edit: Wow, the filter didn't catch that. I had to bleep it out myself :D
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "probably because they want people to actually play the game instead of buying from script farmers"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    Yoshi said:
    "probably because they want people to actually play the game instead of buying from script farmers"
    Seriously ?

    With all of the scripting going on in Ultima Online across the board, now the one big issue is Boss keys on Vendors?

    Really ?
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,185
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,347
    I see Popps  made it  to Atlantic. Tell us more about your general chat experience. 

    Who is buying anything but exodus keys?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,347
    They are on a timer. If they allowed them on vendors you would buy one and come here and post how the time ran out in 5 min after buying because you think the timer should stand still on a vendor.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,453
    I would agree timer probably prevents them from going on vendor search and that not being on vendor search limits their being farmed.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited July 2022
    Pawain said:
    They are on a timer. If they allowed them on vendors you would buy one and come here and post how the time ran out in 5 min after buying because you think the timer should stand still on a vendor.
    Not if the icon that appears on Vendor Search displays what the current timer is....then buyers could see what the timer is before actually buying the keys....

    Hell. if the timer on Boss keys was the actual concern, an extra warning gump could be showed to the buyer warning that the key being purchased has a timer expiring in X time and requiring an extra, safety confirmation before the purchase was actually done....

    If it was as you say, that is, that Boss keys are not permitted to be placed on Vendors to protect buyers from potential scams, then WHY Scrolls of Valiant Commendation as STILL permitted to be placed and priced on Vendors even when they have already been claimed and are thus useless to buyers ??

    How many players have lost their UO gold in such a way ?

    If there was so much concern about players being scammed to prevent Boss keys to be put on Vendors, then WHY other scams (such as that of claimed Scrolls of Valiant Commendation as well as others) are still possible to exist in Ultima Online ?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,347
    Don't those scrolls have a name on them when used?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited July 2022
    Pawain said:
    Don't those scrolls have a name on them when used?
    They sure do, just like BOSS keys do display what their timer is..... still it happens that players just buying them too quickly overlook that they have been claimed already, and so waste their gold purchasing them inadvertedly...

    That is why I mentioned those scrolls when you mentioned a possible cause for BOSS keys not to be sellable on vendors in order to "protect" players from inadvertedly buying them... because they CAN both be not purchased by a cautious player if they have been claimed, for the scrolls, or the timer is too short for the keys, and, yet, Scrolls of Valiant Commendation do are sellable on vendors, even when already claimed and thus useless, but Boss keys are not permitted to be sold on vendors, regardless of what their timer is.... a double standard ?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    Really @Rorschach why so you let this stuff go ....
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,928
    Well, I don't see a need to change this as I won't sell limited time keys on a low pop shard. However, I also see nothing wrong with allowing it to be sold. 

    As for locking this thread, I am 50 50  :D
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    Seth said:
    Well, I don't see a need to change this as I won't sell limited time keys on a low pop shard. However, I also see nothing wrong with allowing it to be sold. 

    As for locking this thread, I am 50 50  :D
    It's the lack of consistency... 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,347
    No one has answered the question.  I think it's 1:4.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    Pawain said:
    No one has answered the question.  I think it's 1:4.
    We've all answered and he has disputed every time..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,928
    Pawain said:
    No one has answered the question.  I think it's 1:4.
     :D nah I think ratio is 1:10 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited August 2022
    McDougle said:
    Pawain  said:
    No one has answered the question.  I think it's 1:4.
    We've all answered and he has disputed every time..
    An answer that was given, to my understanding, was that Boss keys are prohibited to be sold on Vendors to prevent players being scammed and ending up buying keys with their timer close to expire.

    I am afraid, though, that this answer which was given, does not look to me to be a valid one because, as I mentioned, there is other expamples of items still able to be sold on Vendor Search, which end up with players getting scammed of their UO gold...

    So, the answer given must not be a valid one, by sheer logic of thinking,,,.

    Another reason that was given, is that Boss keys might not be sellable on vendors, because the Developers do not want content to be scripted and there might be a concern that selling Boss keys on vendors could lead to players scripting them.

    Well, considering the VAST amount of content that can be scripted and is allowed to be scripted in UO, the last example of which we had with the Destard Event and the Eggs gathering, honestly, crosses out this as a valid answer also.... I mean, with all that can and is scripted in UO then BOSS keys becomes "the" one scripting issue ?

    Please, give me a break....

    Buttom line is, so far, not a single valid answer has been given that makes sense as to why BOSS keys are prohibited to be sold on Vendors, I am afraid....
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,472
    The simple answer is, because the Devs made that decision.  
    Speculation would suggest that while vendor search is coded to see when an item is sold, and when an item is removed by the seller, it is not coded to notice when it just 'poofs' out of existence with no interaction from any player.
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 1,037
    edited August 2022
    With everything that needs urgent attention in the game WHY do you persist with the endless debating.  The keys have a timer. You are supposed to get them to use them, if you want to sell good luck to you

    Popps just give it a rest will you, this is a nothing topic. Completely useless argument. And as always NOBODY cares about your opinion.   
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited August 2022
    The simple answer is, because the Devs made that decision.  
    Speculation would suggest that while vendor search is coded to see when an item is sold, and when an item is removed by the seller, it is not coded to notice when it just 'poofs' out of existence with no interaction from any player.
    So, it would then be a "coding" issue and not a gameplay generated decision....

    But then, code could be adjusted to also accomodate items going "poof" and, in doing so, come forward to players willing to buy and offering to sell these Boss keys thus freeing up General Chat from these buy/sell spam messages, and freeing up players' gameplay time who no longer would have to spend countless of their in-game time to spam General Chat rather then playing the game...
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,472
    I can't say what the devs would say to your suggestion. But I know very well what I would say if I were in their place. Why should they take time out of their already busy schedule to code this when the most obvious answer is to suggest that the players should, instead of spamming general chat, spend that time PLAYING THE DAMN GAME and go farm the keys themselves.
    And that is my last word on this eminently puerile suggestion.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    Pawain  said:
    No one has answered the question.  I think it's 1:4.
    We've all answered and he has disputed every time..
    An answer that was given, to my understanding, was that Boss keys are prohibited to be sold on Vendors to prevent players being scammed and ending up buying keys with their timer close to expire.

    I am afraid, though, that this answer which was given, does not look to me to be a valid one because, as I mentioned, there is other expamples of items still able to be sold on Vendor Search, which end up with players getting scammed of their UO gold...

    So, the answer given must not be a valid one, by sheer logic of thinking,,,.

    Another reason that was given, is that Boss keys might not be sellable on vendors, because the Developers do not want content to be scripted and there might be a concern that selling Boss keys on vendors could lead to players scripting them.

    Well, considering the VAST amount of content that can be scripted and is allowed to be scripted in UO, the last example of which we had with the Destard Event and the Eggs gathering, honestly, crosses out this as a valid answer also.... I mean, with all that can and is scripted in UO then BOSS keys becomes "the" one scripting issue ?

    Please, give me a break....

    Buttom line is, so far, not a single valid answer has been given that makes sense as to why BOSS keys are prohibited to be sold on Vendors, I am afraid....
    Popps the answer is that the system is working perfectly as is not only are the keys being bought and sold but gasp player interaction is occurring....
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,055
    edited August 2022
    I can't say what the devs would say to your suggestion. But I know very well what I would say if I were in their place. Why should they take time out of their already busy schedule to code this when the most obvious answer is to suggest that the players should, instead of spamming general chat, spend that time PLAYING THE DAMN GAME and go farm the keys themselves.
    And that is my last word on this eminently puerile suggestion.
    With this way of looking at things, perhaps, then we would not have had Vendor Search in the first place...

    After all, going from House to house, vendor to vendor or using the runes dropped on ground or listening to players yelling at Banks was "also" playing the damn game.... wasn't it ?

    Why make it then necessary to have a Vendor Search, if not to "ease up" players' gameplay and make it friendlier and more enhanced ?

    I see it another way which it is, that a game can and should always be "enhanced" and "bettered" in offering players better and friedlier ways to play the game such as, for example, making it possible to "also" place BOSS keys on Vendors up for sale...
This discussion has been closed.