ENDLESS JOURNEY GIVEN TOO MANY RIGHTS

abused by those that script.

Please block them from any dungeons or event etc.

The original purpose of these accts are NOT being used and are freely abused by players that do not want to risk master account action

So PLEASE FOR TH ELOVE OF GOD stop allowing them any access to content. If they want to play, PAY like the rest of us

I for one am fed up with EJ acct scripters and want to enjoy the game without being harassed by these abusers

Comments

  • MerusMerus Posts: 590
    I couldn’t disagree with you more.  

    EJ accounts were meant to be playable accounts without some of the perks, mainly housing/storage.  They are a great way to give potential new players enough exposure to the game that they want to sub.  I can say personally that I introduced a new player to UO via an EJ account at the beginning of this event specifically because I knew they would enjoy gathering eggs for butterflies.  That EJ account upgraded with a 6 month game code this week.  Their word of mouth has another person asking about setting up an EJ account to try it out. EJ accounts do work for bringing in new or bringing back old players.

    Do paying players use EJ accounts too, I can’t speak for everyone but I know I do.  I have 5 subbed accounts and 2 EJ accounts.  Those EJ accounts support my subbed accounts for things like getting a focus on demand on slow shards, for extra stable slots for hued pet storage, etc.  Without the EJ accounts, playing my subbed accounts become less enjoyable and puts them at risk of being shut down.

    Do EJ accounts make it a little easier for cheaters, perhaps. But your problem is with the cheaters.  I promise that between using proxy servers to purchase game codes and RMT, these people have no issues using throw away paid accounts to script for their profits.

    I would support some changes that offer an advantage to paid accounts over EJ accounts that still allow EJ to participate.  For example, I’m cool with the idea that the drop rate killing mobs in Destard would be lower for EJ accounts… or maybe they can only see 1 type (out of the 5) eggs to pick up and turn in.  EJ accounts can still participate, they just have to work harder for the rewards.  

    But trashing EJ accounts because some players abuse them while abusing a host of other things like scripts is excessive.  Much better to find and deal with the root of the problem, which is cheaters and RMT.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 966
    I would not be playing had it not been for the EJ account I had for the seven or eight months it took me to figure out how to play the game.  They are necessary to get new and old players back into the game.  Although I don’t see much evidence that UO is trying to attract new players, I can’t see any potential new players paying a subscription fee for this game when there are so many other play for free games.

    I am sorry these EJ accounts are being abused by players that know what they are doing.  It amazes me that there is a real cash market for most of rewards.  Since EJ accounts can’t have vendors anyway and since they are trial accounts maybe allowing them to experience Destard without getting drops makes sense.  They could still fight the monsters and get the full experience of the game just without the reward.  I know this is an old, old game but it should not be that difficult to put additional limits on EJ accounts that prevent them from being used by experienced players to farm rewards.

    Also, a grandmaster can play the game just fine.  You don’t need anymore than that.  And, you can equip a pretty good suit just with the drops you get or that you buy on vendor search.  Yes, you will do better with all the bells and whistles experienced players have, no question about that. But, EJ accounts don’t need the rewards to experience the game.

  • SkettSkett Posts: 653
    If EJ accounts are to learn the game why can they script/bot eggs or be able to get any event items. I feel they should be blocked from events 
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    edited June 2022
    and then those scripters would just open paid accounts and keep on bothering you, while old returnees and new prospects would be further diminished from the experience. You don't seem to grasp the extent cheaters will go to. I would even go as far as to suspect that the most vocal against EJs are really bigtime scripters with tens of paid accounts, just distracting us all from their shenanigans.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    They should never be allowed to leave haven all issues fixed 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 642
    I guarantee you that Bob,Bill, Ben, peek a boo, hodor, heather, Sarah, hello, cotton eye joe and many many more are not new players learning but 100% vets using EJ so they dont get actioned on their main accts. and recycled if they are caught using crappy lrc suits

    also amazing how they all seem to be behaving in the same automated way

    seem to stay as a ghost a long time instead of running off to get res
    will run to a red trap  in fel with an egg next to them without worrying
    will still try to turn in Eggs at the dungeon entrance whilst attacked by swamp spawn
    lets not talk about the auto insure, open doors, not missing a step accuracy in moving and instant pick up, of course there might be octopuses playing the game
    and of course the insta egg hand in  

    this seems to be following a now well knownscript program that Mesanna has been made aware of 

    anyone that disagrees and wants EJ to continue such events is 100% scripting 

    not to mention how many if these items are now on the illegal $$$$$ sites

    completely indefensible 


  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    McDougle said:
    They should never be allowed to leave haven all issues fixed 

    no, no, they should never be allowed to exist, according to your logic.

    I propose an increase in monthly payment.

    All who don't pay $50 a month should not be allowed to play. PERIOD! And we get to see the public beheading of all others.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Archangel said:
    McDougle said:
    They should never be allowed to leave haven all issues fixed 

    no, no, they should never be allowed to exist, according to your logic.

    I propose an increase in monthly payment.

    All who don't pay $50 a month should not be allowed to play. PERIOD! And we get to see the public beheading of all others.
    What can they not experience to be enticed to subscribe? Haven offers a taste of every aspect of the game ? And is perfect for learning?  If we want uo to be free to play with pay to win perks then lets go fully that route...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 530
    edited June 2022
    It's likely not practical to limit EJ to just new haven.  What would you do about EJ accounts that paid for the Time Of Legends and High Seas expansions?   It's a bit too limited of an experience, and likely hard to implement (I can imagine saying "whack-a-mole").

    Bring this back to what I've suggested in several threads already:

    1. Add an "EJ" tag above EJ players, like the VVV tag.  (then we can all assess what's happening here).
    2. Prevent EJ accounts from being in FEL. (one time murder reprieve, booted to tram on login, gate limits like what prevents murderers entering tram etc)
    3. Prevent EJ accounts from getting event drops (destard, ...)
    4. Prevent EJ accounts from picking up new alternate currency items (eggs...)

    The above would be a start of changes that are likely fairly easy to implement, and likely go after some of the more abused cases of EJ accounts.  This also doesn't render the paid expansions useless for "legitimate" EJ accounts.

    I doubt this forum is going to turn up overwhelming support of limiting EJ, but something needs to change...
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    High seas is easy a small closed area for fishing and pirating.  eodon just no why would someone learning the game need to go there or doom or blackthorns...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 530
    It's quite common to have EJ players doing roof (time of legends expansion).  They paid for that, so taking it away seems problematic.  So you board a guild mates Orc ship as an EJ, with high seas, what happens when the ship goes too far from new haven?  Is there even any pirates next to new haven?

    You haven't commented on what I suggested, what's the problem with starting there?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Keeping them in Haven incorporates all your ideas 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,775
    edited June 2022
    Just one liner code in server to force EJ login to use ONLY EC.

    Bots and 3rd party scripters will be blocked automatically.

    CC is supposed to sunset, why still promote CC to new users.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    Seth said:
    Just one liner code in server to force EJ login to use ONLY EC.

    Bots and 3rd party scripters will be blocked automatically.

    CC is supposed to sunset, why still promote CC to new users.
    Now that is actually a stroke of genius. EJs only able to play on EC stops all the bot and scripting abuse! (and the overhead EJ title, that'd be good to, if only to shut all the theory-triggered mob instigators)
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 966
    That’s amazing.  Such a simple solution.  Would upset a few players I think but an explanation up front and the opportunity to switch back to CC upon subscribing should take care of that.  Guessing that most scripters are long time players they would probably not quit.  They would still script but at least UO would gain some revenue from that change.  

  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 181
    +1 on the idea to force EJs to use EC.
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 642
    +2 on EJ EC idea. Fantastic solution. 
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 530
    Seth said:
    Just one liner code in server to force EJ login to use ONLY EC.

    Bots and 3rd party scripters will be blocked automatically.

    Will not work, according to this::
    https://www.martellosecurity.com/kb/mitre/cwe/602/

    The UO server simply needs to limit what EJ accounts are allowed to do, period.

    The problems stem from the fact EJ is the free, unbounded way to collect resources.  These accounts also likely drive the cost of running the game up (apparently the servers are hosted on amazon AWS, so network, cpu, and storage usage and costs are impacted by EJ).

    There is no legitimate reason for EJ accounts to be able collect the drops, pickup alternate resources, or be in FEL, etc.

    I think there were a series of bugs fixed in UO circa 1998 that match up with what you've proposed.  At least one bug supposedly allowed anybody to take ownership of any house.  UO had to revert to several day old backups to address the fallout from this, if memory serves

  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    we should try the limiting them to only play on EC and take it from there
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 530
    edited June 2022
    Archangel said:
    we should try the limiting them to only play on EC and take it from there
    The current EJ account abusers will love that approach.  How long do you think it will take to adapt?  Follow the link I posted above.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,775
    edited June 2022
    Archangel said:
    we should try the limiting them to only play on EC and take it from there
    The current EJ account abusers will love that approach.  How long do you think it will take to adapt?  Follow the link I posted above.
    I read the page and first Para says

    When the server relies on protection mechanisms placed on the client side, an attacker can modify the client-side behavior to bypass the protection mechanisms resulting in potentially unexpected interactions between the client and server.

    So there is protection mechanism placed in uo classic client which can be manipulated to let the server to think that it's EC login?
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • MerusMerus Posts: 590
    edited June 2022
    Seth said:
    Just one liner code in server to force EJ login to use ONLY EC.

    Bots and 3rd party scripters will be blocked 
    There is no legitimate reason for EJ accounts to be able collect the drops, pickup alternate resources, or be in FEL, etc.
    There are legitimate reasons for EJ accounts to do all of those things… the same legit reasons any paid account has to do those things.

    Collecting rewards/gear is one of, if not THE, reason this game still exists.  EJ accounts are already limited in the amount they can collect buy not having a full bank box or a house.

    EJ accounts in Fel really aren’t an issue either except in the very rare instances where valuables are in guard zone.  Players are perfectly capable of dealing with unattended scripters.

    At the end of the day, until UO manages to deal with the demand for RMT, scripters will continue with or without EJ accounts.  These “solutions” to punish EJ accounts is just another, in a long line of, things that ultimately punish legit players far more than they hurt cheaters.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 530
    Merus said:
    Seth said:
    Just one liner code in server to force EJ login to use ONLY EC.

    Bots and 3rd party scripters will be blocked 
    There is no legitimate reason for EJ accounts to be able collect the drops, pickup alternate resources, or be in FEL, etc.
    There are legitimate reasons for EJ accounts to do all of those things… the same legit reasons any paid account has to do those things.

    Collecting rewards/gear is one of, if not THE, reason this game still exists.  EJ accounts are already limited in the amount they can collect buy not having a full bank box or a house.

    EJ accounts in Fel really aren’t an issue either except in the very rare instances where valuables are in guard zone.  Players are perfectly capable of dealing with unattended scripters.

    At the end of the day, until UO manages to deal with the demand for RMT, scripters will continue with or without EJ accounts.  These “solutions” to punish EJ accounts is just another, in a long line of, things that ultimately punish legit players far more than they hurt cheaters.
    EJ accounts are not limited in the amount they can collect.  There is no effective limit to how many EJ accounts a single human can create, and hence the amount of storage they can have.  The EJ account abusers likely hand off all the collected resources to a single paid account in many cases.

    As I suggested earlier, this thread is unlikely to garner much support here.  It's likely some of the EJ account abusers will comment in ways to deflect approaches that would likely hurt their current mode of operation.

    There seems to be some agreement that curbs should be put in place on EJ, and I'm confident if broadsword chose to do something here, they'll do it in the right way -- e.g. by fundamentally limiting what EJ accounts are able to do.  The broadsword team probably has more examples they know of internally that would lead them to do it without relying on some amorphous characteristic of the client.
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    Well, I don't know first hand any EJ scripter, but I know dozens upon dozens of regular account scripters, so the approach seems moot.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,343

    Trial Accounts

    • Removed the 15 day character age requirement for house placement
    • Players are not allowed to place a house while on a trial account
    • Players are not allowed to co-own or be traded a house while on a trial account
    • Trial accounts have travel restrictions –
      • Cannot visit Felucca dungeons or Felucca T2A
    • Trial Accounts have the following resource restrictions -
      • Will only receive basic ores and logs (iron, plain logs) even if they'd otherwise qualify for better types
      • Will not receive sand or stone when mining
    • Trial Account Misc. restrictions -
      • Will not receive ML rewards for resource gathering (jewels, ingredients, and white pearls while fishing)
      • Will not receive rewards, monster kill points, or virtue points from champ spawns
      • Will not get scrolls while doing champ spawns
      • Will not gain Justice virtue points for killing murderers
      • Cannot use Valor or Justice virtues
      • Cannot Protect or be Protected by another player
      • Can not join factions or faction aligned guilds
      • If in a guild they will be removed from the guild, if their guild joins a faction
      • Cannot use Scrolls of Alacrity, Power Scrolls, Stat Scrolls, or Scrolls of Transcendence
      • Cannot use Commodity Deeds
      • Cannot do Community Collections
      • Cannot use Soulstones or fragment soulstones
      • Cannot use Pet summoning balls
      • Cannot use Bracelets of Binding
      • Cannot use the Bag of Sending
      • Cannot do any repeatable quests – even if they are normally repeatable
      • Cannot acquire BOD’s
    They should have lifted the 14 day but kept the restrictions.
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