Weapon balance

McDougle

The trade off between one and two handed weapons has always been speed vs power 

McDougle

With all the SSI gear it's way too easy to reach max swing speed while there's no way to increase max damage of one handed weapons 

Pawain

McDougle said:

With all the SSI gear it's way too easy to reach max swing speed while there's no way to increase max damage of one handed weapons 

Try playing a Macer.  Swords and Fencing are way easier to hit max speed. And Swords only need 2 weapons to get the 3 best specials. WW,DS,AI.  Both are 2 hand so they do more damage.

But for your specific issue:
You get more stats on a shield, you can choose not to use a shield.
There are players that use shields and players that do not.

So you want the increased damage from 2 hand weapons and stats from a shield. 
Should we also remove the shield wielding penalty from Bushido?

UO is a game with choices, not a cookie cutter.

Skett

Agree 

McDougle

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

With all the SSI gear it's way too easy to reach max swing speed while there's no way to increase max damage of one handed weapons 

Try playing a Macer.  Swords and Fencing are way easier to hit max speed. And Swords only need 2 weapons to get the 3 best specials. WW,DS,AI.  Both are 2 hand so they do more damage.

But for your specific issue:
You get more stats on a shield, you can choose not to use a shield.
There are players that use shields and players that do not.

So you want the increased damage from 2 hand weapons and stats from a shield. 
Should we also remove the shield wielding penalty from Bushido?

UO is a game with choices, not a cookie cutter



Choices imply that we can both get to point C by different routes this is not the case. Sadly the added benefits of a shield do nothing if you're dead because even a regular GD has a gazillion HP with your AX doing 100 for my 50 I'm a ghost while you are on to the next monster. 
I'd like two things 
1.open mindedness when someone suggests something new the old we walked uphill in the snow both ways in 98 you should too mentally needs to go
2. No nerf for you just a way for one handed weapons to reach the same damage level as two handed be it new specials or?? 

Pawain

I use 2 hand weapons on most of my warriors because they have Bushido, which I choose to use.

I use a shield and 1 handed weapon on my Ninja Tiger because it is a defensive build and I can get extra stats.

I use 1 handed weapon and shield on my toons that have GM skills and get deleted after they do shrine battles, because it is easy to use a shield in a build.

If you or anyone has a template you are having trouble maximizing damage then you should post that question and let someone help you.

Not every toon should have everything at max.  That is why UO has lasted so long.

Choices and creating templates.  Not easy buttons.

McDougle

Pawain said:

I use 2 hand weapons on most of my warriors because they have Bushido, which I choose to use.

I use a shield and 1 handed weapon on my Ninja Tiger because it is a defensive build and I can get extra stats.

I use 1 handed weapon and shield on my toons that have GM skills and get deleted after they do shrine battles, because it is easy to use a shield in a build.

If you or anyone has a template you are having trouble maximizing damage then you should post that question and let someone help you.

Not every toon should have everything at max.  That is why UO has lasted so long.

Choices and creating templates.  Not easy buttons.

I know you are the only one who knows how to play UO properly but someone asking for change or balance doesn't hurt you at all so why are you so opposed? 

Pawain

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

I use 2 hand weapons on most of my warriors because they have Bushido, which I choose to use.

I use a shield and 1 handed weapon on my Ninja Tiger because it is a defensive build and I can get extra stats.

I use 1 handed weapon and shield on my toons that have GM skills and get deleted after they do shrine battles, because it is easy to use a shield in a build.

If you or anyone has a template you are having trouble maximizing damage then you should post that question and let someone help you.

Not every toon should have everything at max.  That is why UO has lasted so long.

Choices and creating templates.  Not easy buttons.

I know you are the only one who knows how to play UO properly but someone asking for change or balance doesn't hurt you at all so why are you so opposed? 

How does 5 to 8 more stats balance anything since you also want the same damage?

There is no proper way to play UO. 

But I would like your and Popps changes.

Max damage on all toons
a drop per paragon
no more reveal
no more pet reduction in damage
LL on paragons
WoD on Paragons
etc 
etc

Easy peasy. No thought or strategy required.

May as well make a UO single player game too.

A good change would make a 2 hand version of whips.

Seth

Exactly, like the egg collectors, easy peazzzy.

TXEggplant

I use tessens as a macer and they are very fast. 

Pawain

TXEggplant said:

I use tessens as a macer and they are very fast. 

Yes they are.  Choices, their specials are Feint and Dual Wield.  You need Ninja for that.

That tessen from ToT has SSI, lol  I used those way back when.

That weapon contracts the OPs claim that 2 handed weapons do more damage. They are 10 - 12.

He could make an argument that those should be 1 hand. They are very similar to the 1 hand Bokuto.

McDougle

I changed from my radiant scimitar to viking sword don't really need ww attack in destard with the low spawn 

Pawain

McDougle said:

I changed from my radiant scimitar to viking sword don't really need ww attack in destard with the low spawn 

Talk about old school.  I used soul seeker to kill a Bazillion Reponds outside of Honesty in the Titan cave.

McDougle said:

I changed from my radiant scimitar to viking sword don't really need ww attack in destard with the low spawn 

You should have put it this way first.

Broadsword or Longsword does AI.  Note sure why you like the specials on a Viking sword.
You can spam AI every hit if you have HML on the sword.

keven2002

Does anyone with a macer find much use for the whip (forget which one it's called) using whirlwind (maybe @Merlin or @PlayerSkillFTW can chime in)?

I hardly ever see anyone using a whip ever so wasn't sure if that was kind of a "balance" that was given to macers or not (there are too many other goo swords weaps to ever use a whip).

Thanks

Archangel

Whips can be nice sometimes... dunno with macer, but for fun I just got the whip and was 1 hit dead wyverns and 2 hit dragons

Pawain

keven2002 said:

Does anyone with a macer find much use for the whip (forget which one it's called) using whirlwind (maybe @ Merlin or @ PlayerSkillFTW can chime in)?

I hardly ever see anyone using a whip ever so wasn't sure if that was kind of a "balance" that was given to macers or not (there are too many other goo swords weaps to ever use a whip).

Thanks

Macing and fencing did not have a 1 hand weapon for WW until the whip.  Maybe that is why the whip was introduced.  I asked for a 2 hand version of the whip when it came out. So if you want a 1 hand WW weapon, a whip is your only choice for macing and fencing. IMO it is also the best 1 hand swords weapon with WW.

There are 2 2 hand weapons for WW with macing.

I prefer the War Hammer, but you need quite a bit of SSI, stamina to get to max speed.

For fencing the whip is a decent WW weapon. And it has AP as the other special move.

They look cool when using.  They kill stuff like all weapons.  My fencer used it in Hythloth.  My Garg used it also since he does not have enough stamina for the War Hammer in Garg version.

Merlin

keven2002 said:

Does anyone with a macer find much use for the whip (forget which one it's called) using whirlwind (maybe @ Merlin or @ PlayerSkillFTW can chime in)?

I hardly ever see anyone using a whip ever so wasn't sure if that was kind of a "balance" that was given to macers or not (there are too many other goo swords weaps to ever use a whip).

Thanks

I actually made a full slayer set of the Barbed Whips for my Mace & Shield Paladin warrior just a few months ago (credit goes to Ruby Knight for the crafting).   I do find them to be a pretty good one handed weapon, especially given that this is the only Melee Fighter I have that uses a Shield. 

The downside to doing the Whip and Shield combo means that you don't get the Bushido damage bonus to the Whirlwind Attack special.   So you have to take that into consideration.

For the current Wrath of Fey event, they came out with the following whip for each of the three melee fighting lines:


It's actually pretty decent.  All three leeches, a hit spell, hit area, HLD and Damage Increase?  Probably not going to get better than that.  At first I thought these were overpriced at 100 drops, but I can see more value in them now having tried it out with some success.   I suggest grabbing one and giving it a try. 

Pawain

Yes that whip is the best weapon they have introduced as a rewards IMO.  It has the leeches and 3 other things that are not useless.

It's downsides are:
it is 100% physical damage.
The DI is only 25, My toons need 35.
It is shard bound.

But it is the best general use whip.

If you have extra points, the whips are a good investment for a Fencer or Macer.
The Double Axe for swords has a more desired second special.

Merus

Pawain said:

Yes that whip is the best weapon they have introduced as a rewards IMO.  It has the leeches and 3 other things that are not useless.

It's downsides are:
it is 100% physical damage.
The DI is only 25, My toons need 35.
It is shard bound.

But it is the best general use whip.

If you have extra points, the whips are a good investment for a Fencer or Macer.
The Double Axe for swords has a more desired second special.

@Kyronix
It would be awesome if you allowed weapons to have some user defined properties, like the Katalkotl ring where you get to select the skill bonus.  Damage type could easily be one of those.

keven2002

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

Does anyone with a macer find much use for the whip (forget which one it's called) using whirlwind (maybe @ Merlin or @ PlayerSkillFTW can chime in)?

I hardly ever see anyone using a whip ever so wasn't sure if that was kind of a "balance" that was given to macers or not (there are too many other goo swords weaps to ever use a whip).

Thanks

I actually made a full slayer set of the Barbed Whips for my Mace & Shield Paladin warrior just a few months ago (credit goes to Ruby Knight for the crafting).   I do find them to be a pretty good one handed weapon, especially given that this is the only Melee Fighter I have that uses a Shield. 

The downside to doing the Whip and Shield combo means that you don't get the Bushido damage bonus to the Whirlwind Attack special.   So you have to take that into consideration.

For the current Wrath of Fey event, they came out with the following whip for each of the three melee fighting lines:


It's actually pretty decent.  All three leeches, a hit spell, hit area, HLD and Damage Increase?  Probably not going to get better than that.  At first I thought these were overpriced at 100 drops, but I can see more value in them now having tried it out with some success.   I suggest grabbing one and giving it a try. 

That's where my head was when asking the question.

That said, I wasn't sure if it was worth the 100 points. From my perspective the item wouldn't need damage increase (I always put that on my suit) or HLD (M&S gives the same) so what I'm left with is a weapon that I could really just imbue (granted it would max out at 81 HLL) which I would make something other than 100% physical (honestly I could imbue a slightly better version with higher harm). Granted it could possibly open up my suit options a little; I just don't know if I'd want to craft my suit around this weapon (ie reduce my damage or HLD on my suit).. especially when adding a shield. 

My biggest question would be how the loss of Bushido impacts it (I would also run parry). Have you used a whip with Bushido vs without; if was the difference that much or just a couple of damage points?

McDougle

100% life leech vs paragons hehehe yeah ..

Archangel

McDougle said:

100% life leech vs paragons hehehe yeah ..

ya, that´s kind of a slap on the face... rubbing salt on us or what is wrong with these ppl, honestly.. . might come in handy in many other scenarios of course, but still

Merlin

keven2002 said:

 Have you used a whip with Bushido vs without; if was the difference that much or just a couple of damage points?

I haven't tested with/without Bushido for these new Fey event whips just yet.   However, I have done this on Sampires before with swords (1-H versus 2-H, both with and without Bushido) and the lower damage is noticeable enough that I would try to avoid it, especially for something like higher levels of a champion spawn. 

Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible, just more difficult.  No matter what unique build you put together, it would be tough to out-class a Sampire with a 1-Hand & Sword type warrior when fighting versus a large number of higher level casters. 

Lord_Frodo

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