Treasures of the Fey Feedback

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  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,269
    edited June 6
    I haven't hit the dungeon much in the past 2-3 weeks but I did decide to pop in this morning to get the last 12 drops I need for my 100point turn in.

    Overall I do agree the changes have been a step in the right direction and my experience this morning compared to 2ish weeks ago (after the switched back from Fel on ATL) was better. That said, I think the only reason was because there were just less people in the dungeon and it was early morning so less paragons. I did manage 15 drops in the hour (no potion) but I think that was just a little bit of RNG luck with not being a ton of paragons. There was only 1 paragon Shadow Wyrm I saw on the second floor which I was able to kill with the help of another sampire but towards the back end of my time I did notice several Paragon Shadow Wyrms starting to accumulate. That said, I wouldn't waste a luck potion on this event the way it is. Things are too far spread out and too random with paragons completely ruining the hour for me to use them.

    I agree Fel should be opened up this last month; that is the only thing that will really salvage this event for me to really put any further effort towards it (or even think of using a luck potion from the store). 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    edited June 6
    Merlin said:

    Overall, many of the changes from a few weeks ago have made the event more feasible from a playability stand point.   The one remaining trouble I seem to find is that just about every other day is that there will just be an enormous amount of paragons that make half the dungeon effectively impossible.   Especially at the choke point entrances for 2nd and 3rd floor… if there are 5+ paragons on the door, it could be a death sentence in less than five seconds.   Even in the open space area of the main floor, its rather difficult to shake the paragons.. especially if there is a GD or Shadow Wyrm on you.  The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  

    With that said, it seems likely to just be a feature of the different type of lay out of this dungeon at this point.  I am still enjoying and burning a potion of fortune every other day.  My one wish would be for the developers to consider re-opening the Fel side again.   Even if just for a few days like the last time.. it would be a nice change up.

    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @Kyronix , what do you think ?

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,196
    popps said:
    Merlin said:

    Overall, many of the changes from a few weeks ago have made the event more feasible from a playability stand point.   The one remaining trouble I seem to find is that just about every other day is that there will just be an enormous amount of paragons that make half the dungeon effectively impossible.   Especially at the choke point entrances for 2nd and 3rd floor… if there are 5+ paragons on the door, it could be a death sentence in less than five seconds.   Even in the open space area of the main floor, its rather difficult to shake the paragons.. especially if there is a GD or Shadow Wyrm on you.  The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  

    With that said, it seems likely to just be a feature of the different type of lay out of this dungeon at this point.  I am still enjoying and burning a potion of fortune every other day.  My one wish would be for the developers to consider re-opening the Fel side again.   Even if just for a few days like the last time.. it would be a nice change up.

    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @ Kyronix , what do you think ?

    This is just not necessary even on Origin with my mystic bard i can kill the paragons solo is it time consuming yes is it fun and rewarding no but it is possible 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,269
    edited June 6
    This is what level 2 looks like btw. I can kill just about everything except for a shadow wyrm paragon with some time but when you have 4 shadow wyrm paragons + a few weald protectors and crystal lattice paragons; a single person (or even a few) cannot survive unless they can somehow manage to lure 1 or 2 off to kill separately. 

    THIS is reason I won't waste a luck potion. The first floor right now is pretty empty as everything is on the 2nd or 3rd floor (which also has a paragon shadow wyrm + ancient wyrm + weald protector right now).



    EDIT** There are currently 7 paragon shadow wyrms on level 2 in destard (along with a few other paragons)
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,196
    keven2002 said:
    This is what level 2 looks like btw. I can kill just about everything except for a shadow wyrm paragon with some time but when you have 4 shadow wyrm paragons + a few weald protectors and crystal lattice paragons; a single person (or even a few) cannot survive unless they can somehow manage to lure 1 or 2 off to kill separately. 

    THIS is reason I won't waste a luck potion. The first floor right now is pretty empty as everything is on the 2nd or 3rd floor (which also has a paragon shadow wyrm + ancient wyrm + weald protector right now).

    Paragons spawn when people kill things. People don't like to waste time so drag off and leave is totally acceptable. But then they stack up this is a player created issue 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 786
    Have to agree it is more playable now most of the time.  Paragons are spread out a little more.  Night before last was the dragon spawn making it quite playable by a solo player.  Last night was the greater dragon spawn making it more playable if you have a few other players in there to help with the greater dragons.  Greater dragon paragons even with a group take forever to kill.  Lots more fey on the main floor now.  Think the methodical player working alone and not rushing things can do alright now avoiding bigger paragons and finding plenty of other things kill if there are not other players around to work with.  Drop rate is ok but if it’s drops I need I will be collecting eggs.

    Have to admit never know what to expect walking into Destard.  But last couple of nights it seemed a little more player oriented.


  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,269
    edited June 6
    McDougle said:
    keven2002 said:
    This is what level 2 looks like btw. I can kill just about everything except for a shadow wyrm paragon with some time but when you have 4 shadow wyrm paragons + a few weald protectors and crystal lattice paragons; a single person (or even a few) cannot survive unless they can somehow manage to lure 1 or 2 off to kill separately. 

    THIS is reason I won't waste a luck potion. The first floor right now is pretty empty as everything is on the 2nd or 3rd floor (which also has a paragon shadow wyrm + ancient wyrm + weald protector right now).

    Paragons spawn when people kill things. People don't like to waste time so drag off and leave is totally acceptable. But then they stack up this is a player created issue 
    That's only partially accurate. Most people are killing things on level 1 because there is generally more stuff there. Paragons will spawn as a result but when they are spawning on level 2 that isn't nearly as trafficked due to low spawn they tend to stack up. 

    Regardless of that; you are still making the perfect argument on why this isn't right. People who just run around avoiding paragons to get quick/easy kills make it more work for everyone else. I clean up paragons that spawn around me even though it hurts my hourly drop rate. The good Samaritans are the ones getting the raw deal. That's how it's been for most events so that's fine but the real issue with this event is for level 2 and 3 because it becomes out of hand quickly unless someone monitors it (at a sacrifice to their drop rate).

    I literally just logged in before posting that pic... 1) I didn't create this issue but I need to clean it up if I want things to actually spawn elsewhere? 2) it's out of hand on level 2 and even a single person is going to have an extremely hard time clearing that even if I wanted to 3) ATL is one of the few shards that has the population to clear that and it's even a hassle to get people to help. 

    There are 7 paragon shadow wyrms on level 2. You don't think that's a bit overkill for number of paragons in a specific area? Again if there was some sort of paragon cap in the dungeon at least if there were 7 paragon shadow wyrms; there wouldn't be any other paragons.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    edited June 6
    McDougle said:
    popps said:
    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @ Kyronix , what do you think ?

    This is just not necessary even on Origin with my mystic bard i can kill the paragons solo is it time consuming yes is it fun and rewarding no but it is possible 
    The thing is, that, unless there is  sufficient number of players to kill Paragons, as you point out, it becomes too much time consuming for a low number of players to kill them and that makes it not worth it... that is why players leave them be, and they "pile up".... making the dungeon unplayable.

    With a despawn timer, this problem would cease to exist when a low number of players is in the dungeon (because the unkilled Paragons would despawn in a reasonably short time making room to regular, non-Paragon Monsters) and, yet, when a number of players high enough was to be present, they would gang together to kill the Paragons because that would award them extra points towards drops and, because being a large number of players, they could kill even the higher end Paragons in a quick time.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,269
    I don't disagree with you @popps but that's probably too much to ask for an event in flight because it's totally new untested coding they have to implement. 

    The fix for this is to simply open up Fel. If someone wants to solo work the spawn and they can't kill paragon drakes then they can just leave and eventually the alter will despawn and make it more manageable to kill them.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,327
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    popps said:
    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @ Kyronix , what do you think ?

    This is just not necessary even on Origin with my mystic bard i can kill the paragons solo is it time consuming yes is it fun and rewarding no but it is possible 
    The thing is, that, unless there is  sufficient number of players to kill Paragons, as you point out, it becomes too much time consuming for a low number of players to kill them and that makes it not worth it... that is why players leave them be, and they "pile up".... making the dungeon unplayable.

    With a despawn timer, this problem would cease to exist when a low number of players is in the dungeon (because the unkilled Paragons would despawn in a reasonably short time making room to regular, non-Paragon Monsters) and, yet, when a number of players high enough was to be present, they would gang together to kill the Paragons because that would award them extra points towards drops and, because being a large number of players, they could kill even the higher end Paragons in a quick time.
    If they make a despawn timer it will be more than 2 hours.  They are not going to make it for the amount of time that you play. Doesn't the dungeon start over every day?  You would want it to be 10 mins.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 1,153
    Pawain said:
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    popps said:
    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @ Kyronix , what do you think ?

    This is just not necessary even on Origin with my mystic bard i can kill the paragons solo is it time consuming yes is it fun and rewarding no but it is possible 
    The thing is, that, unless there is  sufficient number of players to kill Paragons, as you point out, it becomes too much time consuming for a low number of players to kill them and that makes it not worth it... that is why players leave them be, and they "pile up".... making the dungeon unplayable.

    With a despawn timer, this problem would cease to exist when a low number of players is in the dungeon (because the unkilled Paragons would despawn in a reasonably short time making room to regular, non-Paragon Monsters) and, yet, when a number of players high enough was to be present, they would gang together to kill the Paragons because that would award them extra points towards drops and, because being a large number of players, they could kill even the higher end Paragons in a quick time.
    If they make a despawn timer it will be more than 2 hours.  They are not going to make it for the amount of time that you play. Doesn't the dungeon start over every day?  You would want it to be 10 mins.
    There is a de-spawn timer, it's called Server restart. That usually does it.
     
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    keven2002 said:
    I don't disagree with you @ popps but that's probably too much to ask for an event in flight because it's totally new untested coding they have to implement. 

    The fix for this is to simply open up Fel. If someone wants to solo work the spawn and they can't kill paragon drakes then they can just leave and eventually the alter will despawn and make it more manageable to kill them.
    Oh, I am not expecting the change for this Event.... but for the next one ?

    Absolutely.

    We will always have the issues of Treasures of Dungeons with not enough players to deal with Paragons and thus having them build up and make the Dungeon unplayable, especially on low population Shards...

    So, Designing a de-spawn timer for Paragons starting with next Treasures of Event, could finally solve the issue for good.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    edited June 6
    Pawain said:
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    popps said:
    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @ Kyronix , what do you think ?

    This is just not necessary even on Origin with my mystic bard i can kill the paragons solo is it time consuming yes is it fun and rewarding no but it is possible 
    The thing is, that, unless there is  sufficient number of players to kill Paragons, as you point out, it becomes too much time consuming for a low number of players to kill them and that makes it not worth it... that is why players leave them be, and they "pile up".... making the dungeon unplayable.

    With a despawn timer, this problem would cease to exist when a low number of players is in the dungeon (because the unkilled Paragons would despawn in a reasonably short time making room to regular, non-Paragon Monsters) and, yet, when a number of players high enough was to be present, they would gang together to kill the Paragons because that would award them extra points towards drops and, because being a large number of players, they could kill even the higher end Paragons in a quick time.
    If they make a despawn timer it will be more than 2 hours.  They are not going to make it for the amount of time that you play. Doesn't the dungeon start over every day?  You would want it to be 10 mins.
    As I said, a too long de-spawn timer would be pointless... Paragons would spawn faster as they despawn and the Dungeon would remain uplayable...

    I would see a good, reasonably timed timer, one whereas 10-15 minutes would indeed get a paragon to de-spawn and a regular monster be spawned in place.

    I guess it would need to be tested with a low number of players scenario (1 to 3 ?) and see, whether with whatever X timer Paragons would still build up from those few players working the spawn, eventually making the Dungeon unplayable, or whether the despawn timer for Paragons would be fast enough to balance new Paragons spawning from those few players killing spawn.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    edited June 6
    Pawain said:
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    popps said:
    The only solution seems to be to have a relatively large group..i.e. 5 or more.. to be able to grind them up.   That can be tough for late night players like myself.  
    This would be solved, if the Developers introduced a "despawn timer" for Paragons whereas, if they are not killed in X time since they spawned, they would de-spawn, and a regular, non-Paragon Monster would spawn in their place.

    The killing of regular monsters would still trigger the spawning of Paragons subject to this de-spawn timer.

    This way, if there is sufficient players in the Dungeon, they would kill the Paragons to earn the extra points towards drops which Paragons give.... yet, whenever there were not to be sufficient players to deal with them, since Paragons would de-spawn if unkilled, the Dungeon would still remain playable also to a smaller number of players.

    Of course, such a de-spawn timer for Paragons should be reasonably short or, it would be pointless and not serve its purpose to make the Dungeon playable for a smaller number of players.

    @ Kyronix , what do you think ?

    This is just not necessary even on Origin with my mystic bard i can kill the paragons solo is it time consuming yes is it fun and rewarding no but it is possible 
    The thing is, that, unless there is  sufficient number of players to kill Paragons, as you point out, it becomes too much time consuming for a low number of players to kill them and that makes it not worth it... that is why players leave them be, and they "pile up".... making the dungeon unplayable.

    With a despawn timer, this problem would cease to exist when a low number of players is in the dungeon (because the unkilled Paragons would despawn in a reasonably short time making room to regular, non-Paragon Monsters) and, yet, when a number of players high enough was to be present, they would gang together to kill the Paragons because that would award them extra points towards drops and, because being a large number of players, they could kill even the higher end Paragons in a quick time.
    If they make a despawn timer it will be more than 2 hours.  They are not going to make it for the amount of time that you play. Doesn't the dungeon start over every day?  You would want it to be 10 mins.
    There is a de-spawn timer, it's called Server restart. That usually does it.
     
    And how long does that last before the dungeon gets jammed with Paragons once again and become unplayable? Perhaps 30 minutes, maybe 1 hour....

    And then those few players on that Shard should stop playing in the dungeon and wait 23 hours for the next server maintainance ?

    Quite ineffective, it looks to me.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,401
    edited June 6
    They should 

    1) Increase drop rate for killing paragons, like the Invasion Generals.
    2) Reduce killing power, 3-hit kills. Can up the HP like the Invasion Generals. So more char type can fight and not just tamer bard or Macer. Why kill vampiric embrace yet and make 2 very specific template work better?
    3) Stop making our Balron armor and expensive gear look worse than my noob char picking up eggs.

    I am beginning to wonder how "useful" are those reward items vs the risk.


    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,196
    Seth said:
    They should 

    1) Increase drop rate for killing paragons, like the Invasion Generals.
    2) Reduce killing power, 3-hit kills. Can up the HP like the Invasion Generals. So more char type can fight and not just tamer bard or Macer. Why kill vampiric embrace yet and make 2 very specific template work better?
    3) Stop making our Balron armor and expensive gear look worse than my noob char picking up eggs.

    I am beginning to wonder how "useful" are those reward items vs the risk.


    I'm back to fishing and judging by Pacific and Origin most other people are done as well 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    edited June 7
    Seth said:
    They should 

    1) Increase drop rate for killing paragons, like the Invasion Generals.
    2) Reduce killing power, 3-hit kills. Can up the HP like the Invasion Generals. So more char type can fight and not just tamer bard or Macer. Why kill vampiric embrace yet and make 2 very specific template work better?
    3) Stop making our Balron armor and expensive gear look worse than my noob char picking up eggs.

    I am beginning to wonder how "useful" are those reward items vs the risk.


    Another usefull addition, which could reduce the time to kill for Paragons and, thus, make players more willing to deal with them, rather then leaving them be, could be allowing Word of Death to work on Paragons.......

    Yesterday, to 2 Tamers with a Triton and a Rune Beetle and a spellcaster it took some good 15 minutes to kill a Paragon Greater Dragon and, guess what ? After so much work and time spent for 3 players, not even an artifact drop showed up in the backpack...

    No wonder that players leave Paragons be....
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,094
    edited June 7
    popps said:
    Seth said:
    They should 

    1) Increase drop rate for killing paragons, like the Invasion Generals.
    2) Reduce killing power, 3-hit kills. Can up the HP like the Invasion Generals. So more char type can fight and not just tamer bard or Macer. Why kill vampiric embrace yet and make 2 very specific template work better?
    3) Stop making our Balron armor and expensive gear look worse than my noob char picking up eggs.

    I am beginning to wonder how "useful" are those reward items vs the risk.


    Another usefull addition, which could reduce the time to kill for Paragons and, thus, make players more willing to deal with them, rather then leaving them be, could be allowing Word of Death to work on Paragons.......

    Yesterday, to 2 Tamers with a Triton and a Rune Beetle and a spellcaster it took some good 15 minutes to kill a Paragon Greater Dragon and, guess what ? After so much work and time spent for 3 players, not even an artifact drop showed up in the backpack...

    No wonder that players leave Paragons be....
    No, you don't get a drop from a paragon, but I have found that I do get one very, very shortly after, within 2 - 3 mobs, and when it was a big paragon, often 2 drops in quick succession.

    What *might* make sense is a limit on the numbers of paragons of a specific type that can exist in the dungeon at one time? Example, if there is a paragon greater dragon, then another of that type cannot spawn until it is dead?  Lesser paragons, such as drakes, the paragon limit would be a bit higher maybe?  Say, 1 GD, 1 SW, 2 each of the next hardest creatures, 3 drakes - going down to, say, 4 water eles?
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,401
    edited June 7
    popps said:
    Seth said:
    They should 

    1) Increase drop rate for killing paragons, like the Invasion Generals.
    2) Reduce killing power, 3-hit kills. Can up the HP like the Invasion Generals. So more char type can fight and not just tamer bard or Macer. Why kill vampiric embrace yet and make 2 very specific template work better?
    3) Stop making our Balron armor and expensive gear look worse than my noob char picking up eggs.

    I am beginning to wonder how "useful" are those reward items vs the risk.


    Another usefull addition, which could reduce the time to kill for Paragons and, thus, make players more willing to deal with them, rather then leaving them be, could be allowing Word of Death to work on Paragons.......

    Yesterday, to 2 Tamers with a Triton and a Rune Beetle and a spellcaster it took some good 15 minutes to kill a Paragon Greater Dragon and, guess what ? After so much work and time spent for 3 players, not even an artifact drop showed up in the backpack...

    No wonder that players leave Paragons be....
    No, you don't get a drop from a paragon, but I have found that I do get one very, very shortly after, within 2 - 3 mobs, and when it was a big paragon, often 2 drops in quick succession.

    What *might* make sense is a limit on the numbers of paragons of a specific type that can exist in the dungeon at one time? Example, if there is a paragon greater dragon, then another of that type cannot spawn until it is dead?  Lesser paragons, such as drakes, the paragon limit would be a bit higher maybe?  Say, 1 GD, 1 SW, 2 each of the next hardest creatures, 3 drakes - going down to, say, 4 water eles?
    Yup, if the paragons remain so powerful then they need to be treated like any named bosses. Perhaps the alpha Paragons should spawn like the champ spawn boss. One at a time please and I still insist on guaranteed drop since it's 10 times more powerful than many named bosses in the game.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • MerusMerus Posts: 518
    Seems to me that we need a couple adjustments to this dungeon next time:

    Keep the shadow wyrms off level 1 and 3.  This leaves 1 high level paragon per level to deal with.

    A significant increase to the low/mid level fey monsters.  I believe this alone would correct the drop rate inside the dungeon… lots of low level mobs obviously works in the Fel champ spawn.  It would also help out life leech templates by having more mobs to leech from when dealing with higher level paragons.

    For all Treasures events I think any Paragon with a 160 bard difficulty should be a guaranteed drop.  This provides the incentive for players to engage rather than avoid them.
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 420
    also, there should NEVER be more paragons than spawn, which I have seen be. further, there should not be more paragons than people !
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,401
    edited June 7
    Archangel said:
    also, there should NEVER be more paragons than spawn, which I have seen be. further, there should not be more paragons than people !
    Yup they created the paragon concept needs to be moderated... Also a huge diff between a mongbat Paragon and say a Putrefier paragon... the latter could probably kill all the other regular bosses in the game.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,269
    If the Devs could just limit the number of paragons to either by type (ie. 1 paragon SW per floor) or total (ie 10 total paragons per floor) that would be all that is needed.

    By making them a guaranteed drop, you would have people running 2-3 accounts (or maybe even more) concurrently just need to hit a paragon a couple times for looting rights and boom they just got 3+ drops for one kill. That would be too easily manipulated by people running multiple accounts. I have multiple accounts I could use too but I still wouldn't want that to happen.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,196
    If the developers could just acknowledge that there's an issue...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • MerusMerus Posts: 518
    keven2002 said:
    If the Devs could just limit the number of paragons to either by type (ie. 1 paragon SW per floor) or total (ie 10 total paragons per floor) that would be all that is needed.

    By making them a guaranteed drop, you would have people running 2-3 accounts (or maybe even more) concurrently just need to hit a paragon a couple times for looting rights and boom they just got 3+ drops for one kill. That would be too easily manipulated by people running multiple accounts. I have multiple accounts I could use too but I still wouldn't want that to happen.
    If you have multiple accounts and can manage to keep them alive through the paragons I fail to see the issue.  Much better to have a few multi client players get an extra drop or two on the occasional high level paragon then have a dungeon full of paragons no one wants to kill.
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 387




    So let's talk about this for a second. There's a couple ways a pair of players or a skilled single player running two accounts on two monitors could handle this situation. So many of you seem desperate to reduce the difficulty in these events. That's your prerogative, but this is not an unmanageable situation. You don't need to wait it out until server restart.

    I won't lie and say that if I walked down that ramp and saw all that waiting for me, my first inclination would be to curse. But that pile is by no means insurmountable. Let's also set aside the "I didn't create this mess and therefore shouldn't have to clean it up" thing. Valor is a virtue, afterall.

    I'm going to start by analyzing that picture, what's in it, and where it is.

    I see at least three para  shadow wyrms, two para lattice seekers, a para weald protector, a para dragon whelpling, a para unicorn, a para wyrm. Later in this long post I'll talk about strategies I'd use for each.

    The biggest advantage here is the location. You have ramps up to 1 and down to 3, as well as all of 2.

    First strategy should be to setup a base camp either on the ramp down to 2 from 1 or up from 3 to 2. Control that area before you tackle the para pile. If you have paras on level 1 at the ramp to 2 OR the ancient wyrm hanging out on the ramp up to 2 from 3 you're just compounding the problems.

    Second strategy should be to then control an area of 2. If you haven't done a Treasures event in a dungeon before you likely did setup a runebook with lots of locations before the spawn started. There was a good couple weeks where we knew Destard was going to host this event. A smart player will have marked runes all over the dungeon for situations exactly like this. If some place is blocked, use your rune to get behind the trouble.

    The paras pile up because players run down, aggro things, and then exit the ramp. This blocks access from the ramp but likely means the other areas on 2 are para free. This is how we start to pick the para pile apart. You recall out of the way and try and aggro a para individually, pulling it back from the pile into your basecamp on 2. If you get more than you intend, run back up to 1 or down to your base on 3 and reform the para pile. Recall to your spot on 2, start again.

    So let's say you and your two screens or you and your buddy are successful in getting one of the meaner paras over to you. How should you proceed?

    The only para in Destard that presents a problem, in my experience, is the para greater dragon. It's nasty and has the HP to make a fight last. But luckily they aren't down on 2 ever. Instead you've got the para shadow wyrm. It's a glass cannon. You can take it apart in less than a minute. Here's the types of characters I use.

    I use my 120 swords/healing/parry/bushido dragoon and my 120 macing/healing/parry/resist stagger fighter. I have two monitors and them set to auto-hit. Importantly both are using dragon slaying weapons. Both these characters have 75 resists to mitigate that one-hit damage special. On each client I have macros setup to cross heal (the real power here!) and to hit AI. I go back and forth between clients firing off the cross heal macro, AI, and using the stagger mastery spell on the macer. Stagger drops their stamina hit rate to nothing. If you keep it going the para shadow wyrm can't do much to overcome your fast crossheals. 

    That's one set of templates.

    Alternatively, a regular old 120 tamer running consume on their pet as a tank and some other template to deliver high damage (think, again, the 120 swords dragoon or a 120 ABC archer here) can, again, take the shadow para down in no time at all. Instead of the swords guy, use a macer instead and continue to keep stagger going to provide a little room for the tamer's pet's health. Here my fight cadence is like Stagger, AI, AI, repeat. In this example I or my buddy playing the tamer isn't doing anything other than letting the pet tank and keeping its health going with consume. But some dragon slayer spellbook flame strikes could end the fight faster.

    You could do this with two tamers, too. Again, one pet on consume as the tank and then another tamer and pet delivering more damage.

    But the strategy basically remains the same: keep aggro on one character/pet that can handle the one-hit damage. Mitigate the para's damage with the second character while delivering the bulk of your team's damage against it.

    If you and your pal can pull the pile apart and take down the para shadow wyrm alone basically nothing else there is an issue. Fey slayers for the fey, dragon slayer for the dragon. If more than one starts to come for you, break fight and head to the basecamp on 1 or 3. Recall to your safe spot on 2 and start over. 

    Throw in a bard as a third character running peace songs and your little band of three can take down the para greater dragons. It just takes time and strategy.
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 420
    Jepeth said:




    So let's talk about this for a second. There's a couple ways a pair of players or a skilled single player running two accounts on two monitors could handle this situation. So many of you seem desperate to reduce the difficulty in these events. That's your prerogative, but this is not an unmanageable situation. You don't need to wait it out until server restart.

    I won't lie and say that if I walked down that ramp and saw all that waiting for me, my first inclination would be to curse. But that pile is by no means insurmountable. Let's also set aside the "I didn't create this mess and therefore shouldn't have to clean it up" thing. Valor is a virtue, afterall.

    I'm going to start by analyzing that picture, what's in it, and where it is.

    I see at least three para  shadow wyrms, two para lattice seekers, a para weald protector, a para dragon whelpling, a para unicorn, a para wyrm. Later in this long post I'll talk about strategies I'd use for each.

    The biggest advantage here is the location. You have ramps up to 1 and down to 3, as well as all of 2.

    First strategy should be to setup a base camp either on the ramp down to 2 from 1 or up from 3 to 2. Control that area before you tackle the para pile. If you have paras on level 1 at the ramp to 2 OR the ancient wyrm hanging out on the ramp up to 2 from 3 you're just compounding the problems.

    Second strategy should be to then control an area of 2. If you haven't done a Treasures event in a dungeon before you likely did setup a runebook with lots of locations before the spawn started. There was a good couple weeks where we knew Destard was going to host this event. A smart player will have marked runes all over the dungeon for situations exactly like this. If some place is blocked, use your rune to get behind the trouble.

    The paras pile up because players run down, aggro things, and then exit the ramp. This blocks access from the ramp but likely means the other areas on 2 are para free. This is how we start to pick the para pile apart. You recall out of the way and try and aggro a para individually, pulling it back from the pile into your basecamp on 2. If you get more than you intend, run back up to 1 or down to your base on 3 and reform the para pile. Recall to your spot on 2, start again.

    So let's say you and your two screens or you and your buddy are successful in getting one of the meaner paras over to you. How should you proceed?

    The only para in Destard that presents a problem, in my experience, is the para greater dragon. It's nasty and has the HP to make a fight last. But luckily they aren't down on 2 ever. Instead you've got the para shadow wyrm. It's a glass cannon. You can take it apart in less than a minute. Here's the types of characters I use.

    I use my 120 swords/healing/parry/bushido dragoon and my 120 macing/healing/parry/resist stagger fighter. I have two monitors and them set to auto-hit. Importantly both are using dragon slaying weapons. Both these characters have 75 resists to mitigate that one-hit damage special. On each client I have macros setup to cross heal (the real power here!) and to hit AI. I go back and forth between clients firing off the cross heal macro, AI, and using the stagger mastery spell on the macer. Stagger drops their stamina hit rate to nothing. If you keep it going the para shadow wyrm can't do much to overcome your fast crossheals. 

    That's one set of templates.

    Alternatively, a regular old 120 tamer running consume on their pet as a tank and some other template to deliver high damage (think, again, the 120 swords dragoon or a 120 ABC archer here) can, again, take the shadow para down in no time at all. Instead of the swords guy, use a macer instead and continue to keep stagger going to provide a little room for the tamer's pet's health. Here my fight cadence is like Stagger, AI, AI, repeat. In this example I or my buddy playing the tamer isn't doing anything other than letting the pet tank and keeping its health going with consume. But some dragon slayer spellbook flame strikes could end the fight faster.

    You could do this with two tamers, too. Again, one pet on consume as the tank and then another tamer and pet delivering more damage.

    But the strategy basically remains the same: keep aggro on one character/pet that can handle the one-hit damage. Mitigate the para's damage with the second character while delivering the bulk of your team's damage against it.

    If you and your pal can pull the pile apart and take down the para shadow wyrm alone basically nothing else there is an issue. Fey slayers for the fey, dragon slayer for the dragon. If more than one starts to come for you, break fight and head to the basecamp on 1 or 3. Recall to your safe spot on 2 and start over. 

    Throw in a bard as a third character running peace songs and your little band of three can take down the para greater dragons. It just takes time and strategy.

    And after that project of life, pray tell how many drops does one not get?
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 387
    Archangel said:
    And after that project of life, pray tell how many drops does one not get?
    The issue was dealing with the spawn. It's been observed that if you hunt level 1 down to nothing the newer implementation of the Treasures of Destard will spawn more onto 2. If you let the paras and other spawn pile up on 2 and no one deals with it, everyone's drops decline. 

    Plus, those paras add to your count total for more. Did you miss the part where I said you can take the meanest of them, the para shadow wyrm, down in about a minute if you know what you're doing? How long do you think it would take to clear all that with a handful of skilled players?
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 420
    Jepeth said:
    Archangel said:
    And after that project of life, pray tell how many drops does one not get?
    The issue was dealing with the spawn. It's been observed that if you hunt level 1 down to nothing the newer implementation of the Treasures of Destard will spawn more onto 2. If you let the paras and other spawn pile up on 2 and no one deals with it, everyone's drops decline. 

    Plus, those paras add to your count total for more. Did you miss the part where I said you can take the meanest of them, the para shadow wyrm, down in about a minute if you know what you're doing? How long do you think it would take to clear all that with a handful of skilled players?

    on Origin? where there is NO-ONE in destard? it is simply unrealistic
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 387
    As I said, this could be done with one skilled player playing two accounts or a pair of players. You really don't have a single friend?
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