Ilshenar and rune marking / gating

LeBaiton

It's been 21 years since Ilshenar was introduced. Halloween 2017 introduced us to the serpent's jawbone, which enables us to teleport to a few areas and dungeons there. Can we now perhaps consider to take it one step further and allow for rune marking and moongating in Ilsh?

I don't really know anymore why marking specifically was banned, maybe it was because lots of interesting spawnspots were heavily camped back in the days and this made sure players couldn't camp spots 24/7? Is the reason still valid in 2022?

Maybe being allowed to mark and gate could be made into a questline you'd have to follow to circumvent the powerful magic? Or a storyline could be introduced about a breakthrough made by the Lord's mages. That might be fun.

I get that Felucca T2A marking has been switched off due to PvP and champ spawns and people recalling in and out, but the champ spawns in Ilsh are not centered around PvP and I no longer see not being able to mark or gate in Ilsh as something which is useful or as something 'quirky' with a thinly spread out population as of today. It's more of a hindrance to do fun stuff on that huge piece of landmass, like resource collecting, taming or simply going somewhere fast.

Am curious to the opinions of other players?

Arnold7

Think marking runes was disabled to make it more of a challenge.  Makes treasure hunting a real pain.

Reiko

I do like the idea you suggested with a quest line or a storyline event. I think that would make it more interesting than just a blanket patch change. Although, I personally feel like the no marking/gating makes Ilshenar have more "flavor". Yes it is inconvenient, but it adds to the feel/atmosphere of it. In my opinion the no marking makes it feel more RPG instead of just MMO. 

Of_Beasts

You can use the serpent's jawbone to get close to many areas.  

TimSt

I am OK with not being able to mark a rune. It is an inconvenience that I can live with. But I would like to be able to open a moongate so I can gate in party.

Lord_Frodo

Leave Ilshenar the way it is but if you insist that after 21 years Ilsh should change then isn't it about time that all champ spawn be moved to tram rule set because it has been more than 21 years that they have been under fel ruleset.

gay

Lord_Frodo said:

Leave Ilshenar the way it is but if you insist that after 21 years Ilsh should change then isn't it about time that all champ spawn be moved to tram rule set because it has been more than 21 years that they have been under fel ruleset.

There are trammel spawns, they're in ilshenar which is a trammel ruleset facet. You just cannot get 120s from them, and tbh champion spawns in trammel don't meet the original purpose of champion spawns to begin with. You may want to look into how they functioned in the past and what their original purpose was. They were meant to be something that challenged players, and adversity amongst players was not only expected and encouraged, it was also designed around. Multiple times.

The purpose of champion spawns was to re-vitalize felucca, do you feel that is the case for trammel?

Lord_Frodo

gay said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Leave Ilshenar the way it is but if you insist that after 21 years Ilsh should change then isn't it about time that all champ spawn be moved to tram rule set because it has been more than 21 years that they have been under fel ruleset.

There are trammel spawns, they're in ilshenar which is a trammel ruleset facet. You just cannot get 120s from them, and tbh champion spawns in trammel don't meet the original purpose of champion spawns to begin with. You may want to look into how they functioned in the past and what their original purpose was. They were meant to be something that challenged players, and adversity amongst players was not only expected and encouraged, it was also designed around. Multiple times.

The purpose of champion spawns was to re-vitalize felucca, do you feel that is the case for trammel?

That went right over your head didn't it.

drcossack

Lord_Frodo said:

Leave Ilshenar the way it is but if you insist that after 21 years Ilsh should change then isn't it about time that all champ spawn be moved to tram rule set because it has been more than 21 years that they have been under fel ruleset.

How about no?  Trammel ruleset has more than enough content (some of it exclusive to that ruleset), and, in fact, everything you can do in Fel, you can do in Tram - that includes champ spawns.  The only thing you can get in Fel that you can't in Tram?  Powerscrolls.  What has Fel gotten in the past 10 years?  VvV?  That's been terrible since its inception.  The Khaldun champion spawn?  You could do that in Tram too.

While I'm off and on in regards to logging in, I do currently keep at least one of my accounts active, simply for the house it has.  All of my chars have lived in Fel for over a decade.  I pvm there (and not just for champ spawns.)  I occasionally pvp, although I am largely retired from it (for various reasons.)

Unlike the old days, I could go an entire MONTH (at minimum) and see maybe 2 people in Fel.

How about we add more Fel ruleset to the game?  In fact, why don't we make every shard like Siege and Mugen, where every landmass available is Fel ruleset?

TimSt

@drcossack Do that and watch the number of subscribed users tank. There is a reason why you see maybe 2 people in Fel and why in New Legacy PvP will be consensual.

Seth

I vote no because
1) If I can vaguely rem. it was the original design intent for Ilsh
2) The serpent's jaw bone was introduced to promote faster travel already. I don't support making this recent reward obsolete. Do you know how many hours we spent to get those and the shard bound version during the recent events.
3) We can use the serpent's jaw on most shard at public houses. 
 

Lord_Frodo

drcossack said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Leave Ilshenar the way it is but if you insist that after 21 years Ilsh should change then isn't it about time that all champ spawn be moved to tram rule set because it has been more than 21 years that they have been under fel ruleset.

How about no?  Trammel ruleset has more than enough content (some of it exclusive to that ruleset), and, in fact, everything you can do in Fel, you can do in Tram - that includes champ spawns.  The only thing you can get in Fel that you can't in Tram?  Powerscrolls.  What has Fel gotten in the past 10 years?  VvV?  That's been terrible since its inception.  The Khaldun champion spawn?  You could do that in Tram too.

While I'm off and on in regards to logging in, I do currently keep at least one of my accounts active, simply for the house it has.  All of my chars have lived in Fel for over a decade.  I pvm there (and not just for champ spawns.)  I occasionally pvp, although I am largely retired from it (for various reasons.)

Unlike the old days, I could go an entire MONTH (at minimum) and see maybe 2 people in Fel.

How about we add more Fel ruleset to the game?  In fact, why don't we make every shard like Siege and Mugen, where every landmass available is Fel ruleset?

Went right over your head also.

drcossack

TimSt said:

@ drcossack Do that and watch the number of subscribed users tank. There is a reason why you see maybe 2 people in Fel and why in New Legacy PvP will be consensual.

Frodo has been complaining about the Fel ruleset for YEARS.  When he doesn't even play there at all, whether it be pvm or pvp.  Given that he doesn't know what happens there, why is he throwing his two cents in?  Among other things, I don't bother with deco, crafting, or fishing.  Do you see me complaining about any of them?

The reason why I see so few people in Fel these days isn't because of non-consensual pvp - in fact, that's a non-argument.  You consent to the RISK of pvp every time you step foot in Fel.  Well, that's how it used to be over a decade ago, anyway (Atl and Yew Gate notwithstanding.)  You can even run a HARROWER on most shards these days and not have anyone bother you.  At UO's peak, that was impossible - multiple guilds raiding you was guaranteed.  Even in the Trammel ruleset, players only go to a few areas: Shadowguard (which is where the loot is), the crazed mage (for pet leveling), and acid slugs in the Underworld dungeon (pet/character training), to name a few.

Leaving the pvp aside, why not give people more of an incentive to go to Fel?  What carrots does it currently offer?  Double resources, 1k luck that's applied facet-wide, and Powerscrolls?  Of those 3 things, Powerscrolls are the only real draw - the loot you'll get in Shadowguard is "better" than anything you'll find in Fel - while it's been a while since I've done a Harrower, even the loot from him was relatively bad.  You'll find "Legendary Artifacts", but in the amount of time it takes for you to get a good sample size of the Harrower's loot quality, you can do multiple runs of Shadowguard, where the loot quality is proven + you have the chance at one of six Slayers on the Enchantress' Cameo.  Knowing that the pvm rewards are better in Trammel, what's the real incentive for people to go to Fel?

McDougle

drcossack said:

TimSt said:

@ drcossack Do that and watch the number of subscribed users tank. There is a reason why you see maybe 2 people in Fel and why in New Legacy PvP will be consensual.

Frodo has been complaining about the Fel ruleset for YEARS.  When he doesn't even play there at all, whether it be pvm or pvp.  Given that he doesn't know what happens there, why is he throwing his two cents in?  Among other things, I don't bother with deco, crafting, or fishing.  Do you see me complaining about any of them?

The reason why I see so few people in Fel these days isn't because of non-consensual pvp - in fact, that's a non-argument.  You consent to the RISK of pvp every time you step foot in Fel.  Well, that's how it used to be over a decade ago, anyway (Atl and Yew Gate notwithstanding.)  You can even run a HARROWER on most shards these days and not have anyone bother you.  At UO's peak, that was impossible - multiple guilds raiding you was guaranteed.  Even in the Trammel ruleset, players only go to a few areas: Shadowguard (which is where the loot is), the crazed mage (for pet leveling), and acid slugs in the Underworld dungeon (pet/character training), to name a few.

Leaving the pvp aside, why not give people more of an incentive to go to Fel?  What carrots does it currently offer?  Double resources, 1k luck that's applied facet-wide, and Powerscrolls?  Of those 3 things, Powerscrolls are the only real draw - the loot you'll get in Shadowguard is "better" than anything you'll find in Fel - while it's been a while since I've done a Harrower, even the loot from him was relatively bad.  You'll find "Legendary Artifacts", but in the amount of time it takes for you to get a good sample size of the Harrower's loot quality, you can do multiple runs of Shadowguard, where the loot quality is proven + you have the chance at one of six Slayers on the Enchantress' Cameo.  Knowing that the pvm rewards are better in Trammel, what's the real incentive for people to go to Fel?

This always translates to need more victims..

drcossack

McDougle said:

drcossack said:

TimSt said:

@ drcossack Do that and watch the number of subscribed users tank. There is a reason why you see maybe 2 people in Fel and why in New Legacy PvP will be consensual.

Frodo has been complaining about the Fel ruleset for YEARS.  When he doesn't even play there at all, whether it be pvm or pvp.  Given that he doesn't know what happens there, why is he throwing his two cents in?  Among other things, I don't bother with deco, crafting, or fishing.  Do you see me complaining about any of them?

The reason why I see so few people in Fel these days isn't because of non-consensual pvp - in fact, that's a non-argument.  You consent to the RISK of pvp every time you step foot in Fel.  Well, that's how it used to be over a decade ago, anyway (Atl and Yew Gate notwithstanding.)  You can even run a HARROWER on most shards these days and not have anyone bother you.  At UO's peak, that was impossible - multiple guilds raiding you was guaranteed.  Even in the Trammel ruleset, players only go to a few areas: Shadowguard (which is where the loot is), the crazed mage (for pet leveling), and acid slugs in the Underworld dungeon (pet/character training), to name a few.

Leaving the pvp aside, why not give people more of an incentive to go to Fel?  What carrots does it currently offer?  Double resources, 1k luck that's applied facet-wide, and Powerscrolls?  Of those 3 things, Powerscrolls are the only real draw - the loot you'll get in Shadowguard is "better" than anything you'll find in Fel - while it's been a while since I've done a Harrower, even the loot from him was relatively bad.  You'll find "Legendary Artifacts", but in the amount of time it takes for you to get a good sample size of the Harrower's loot quality, you can do multiple runs of Shadowguard, where the loot quality is proven + you have the chance at one of six Slayers on the Enchantress' Cameo.  Knowing that the pvm rewards are better in Trammel, what's the real incentive for people to go to Fel?

This always translates to need more victims..

If I were still in my 20's, you'd be correct - I would kill those players without hesitation, then call in my guildmates to finish the spawn.  But, leaving UO's population aside, that ship has sailed - there's no point in me fighting someone if I don't have to put some effort in.  In the past week, I've run into two people doing spawns on LS.  I could have just as easily left, switched to my pvp char and killed them, then finished the spawns myself.

Lord_Frodo

drcossack said:

TimSt said:

@ drcossack Do that and watch the number of subscribed users tank. There is a reason why you see maybe 2 people in Fel and why in New Legacy PvP will be consensual.

Frodo has been complaining about the Fel ruleset for YEARS.  When he doesn't even play there at all, whether it be pvm or pvp.  Given that he doesn't know what happens there, why is he throwing his two cents in?  Among other things, I don't bother with deco, crafting, or fishing.  Do you see me complaining about any of them?

LOL  Come to my Fel house and lets talk.
Another one that it went right over their head, LMAO.

drcossack

Lord_Frodo said:

drcossack said:

TimSt said:

@ drcossack Do that and watch the number of subscribed users tank. There is a reason why you see maybe 2 people in Fel and why in New Legacy PvP will be consensual.

Frodo has been complaining about the Fel ruleset for YEARS.  When he doesn't even play there at all, whether it be pvm or pvp.  Given that he doesn't know what happens there, why is he throwing his two cents in?  Among other things, I don't bother with deco, crafting, or fishing.  Do you see me complaining about any of them?

LOL  Come to my Fel house and lets talk.
Another one that it went right over their head, LMAO.

Wow, you live in Fel.  Want a cookie?  And name the shard.

McDougle

Living in fel proves nothing go pop a spawn or on a few shards yew gate otherwise fel a ghost town as are the two fel rule set shards which should be full of our brave only want to fight for the fight pvpers 

keven2002

The champs spawns are really the main draw for Fel which have always been about risk of being overrun but this is also because people use ghost cams to cheat.  

I see what you are saying @drcossack and tend to agree about Fel; especially if we are talking outside of ATL. My personal opinion is that there should be something (in addition to the 1k luck which is random at producing results) given to Fel; maybe a bump in loot or better chance at clean arties or whatever to give more reward for risk (I'm hoping this is how NL will be treated). 

I think that if it were something like a global "loot bump" it wouldn't be as bad as some of the others think it might be because it wouldn't funnel everyone into the same place (ie champ spawn with ghost cams). It would mean that if people really wanted to go PK someone they would need to check all over which just isn't going to happen. There are like 6 places to kill demons take your pick I doubt they would all be camped with reds waiting for you. This would also regulate itself in the event there were AFK scripters farming because they could be killed.

It really wouldn't be all doom and gloom like many think it would be.

Arnold7

Maybe if hoard chests had a chance of a of having a 115 scroll and trove a 120.  I would go to fel for that that.  As is, i do those chests there once in a while but really the 110 and 105 scrolls I get are mostly hardly worth the effort.  On my shard the risk is nominal.  Don’t think I have ever seen another player there when on a treasure hunt for whatever that says about the fel rule set.

McDougle

Arnold7 said:

Maybe if hoard chests had a chance of a of having a 115 scroll and trove a 120.  I would go to fel for that that.  As is, i do those chests there once in a while but really the 110 and 105 scrolls I get are mostly hardly worth the effort.  On my shard the risk is nominal.  Don’t think I have ever seen another player there when on a treasure hunt for whatever that says about the fel rule set.

I find the fel chest ok just gotta use binders

Mariah

Can we get this topic off Fel and back onto Ilsh?

Skett

Marking runes in ish is way past do