Mana Regeneration on characters : What is that number that makes it worth it ?

https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/magic-item-properties/

Mana Regeneration is uncapped but, is subject to diminishing returns...

"Increases the rate at which you regain mana, subject to diminishing returns.
Can be crafted on Spellbooks, maximum intensity of 1."

As we know, when focusing on a certain property, other properties need to be sacrificed making choices so, while for an uncapped property one might think "they sky is the limit", one usually has to settle down on a more realistically attainable figure not to sacrifice too much other properties also having an impact.

That is, is my question, is there a given Mana Regen "number" for characters who need Mana, like Spellcasters, Bards etc., which is reasonable to settle down for since going further, because of the "diminishing returns", would basically cost too much in terms of other properties to have to sacrifice as compared to the further Mana Regeneration obtained ?

Comments

  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    With today ingame equipment reaching 30 is not a problem. 

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,806
    edited February 28
    @popps - This seems like another "nowhere" thread because yet again you do not actually say what you are actively trying to do. Instead you ask another semi arbitrary question. The answer to your vague question is probably 20-30 MR.

    The answer will depend on what you are looking to do and what template you are using.

    On my PvP mage I decided to drop Med so I could shoot for 55 LMC. I was told anything over 20 MR for PvP is good (given all the other stats to shoot for in place of MR). I have 20MR /170mana and I seldom have an issue with mana unless I'm in a stalemate fight with another person (constantly casting spells / using specials for 4 minutes will deplete my mana).

    On my thief (also has ninja/magery) I only have 15 MR (0 med / focus) but spend 80% of the time in the shadows. I almost never have an issue with mana.

    On my mage training / inscription suit I have 36MR and 120 med and will eventually run out of mana.

    Mind you there are plenty of other options when it comes to mana depending on what you are doing / template you are using. Bard buffs / wraith form / mana vamp / etc are all viable options depending on what I'm doing.

    As you can see, you will need to actually provide details of what you are looking to achieve for anyone to truly give you any meaningful feedback.... that of course also means that your question might actually have an answer too so I understand if you want to remain vague. ;)
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,523Moderator
    The EC gump gives 30 as the 'cap', this is because it has been stated in the past that beyond 30 the return has diminished to the point where it becomes negligible.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,834
    i would aim for at least 20, e.g. my warriors’ rez recovery. 

    For my mystic sw mage, I think it’s over MR 20 with 120 focus and med, and it can still run out of mana when spamming attack spells.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,834
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 704
    edited February 28
    wading through the flannel I surmise 

    Popps cant be assed to do any work and wants the players to do the work for him

    Total disrespect to others with his self importance and ignorance

    Obviously this, like most other dumb threads can be answered din game very easily or by friends?

    Are you on the ignore list to everyone in game? this why you bombard this forum with your nonsense?

    You get off on this do you?  Weirdo

    Lock please, let move on
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,090
    edited February 28
    For PvM I find it fairly easy to put together a suit that has that maximizes lower reagent and mana costs and has about 15 mana regeneration.  I rarely run out of mana except when a monster casts a spell that drains my mana down to next to nothing.  Don’t know how they do that to me but it’s always an unpleasant surprise.  As Mariah indicated In EC 30 is the max for mana regeneration.

    Lower reagent and mana costs commonly run 20 and 10% on equipment and jewelry making those two easy to max out but mana regeneration and casting advantages show up most often on jewelry.  Not so often on equipment.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,570
    edited March 1
    keven2002 said:

    The answer will depend on what you are looking to do and what template you are using.

    Let's say a Bard/Mage, just for sake of the discussion....

    Mastery Mana upkeeps, even increase depending on the number of pets and characters in the Party affected. I understand that every 5 mobiles (characters, pets and mounted pets) raise upkeep costs by 1 Mana every 2 seconds.

    And to that Mana upkeep cost, also the mana cost of spells used needs to be added....

    Buttom line is, what is the Mana Regeneration that a Bard/Mage would need to reach, in order to be fully functional using Masteries and spells without worrying about running out of Mana ?
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 951
    popps said:
    keven2002 said:

    The answer will depend on what you are looking to do and what template you are using.

    Let's say a Bard/Mage, just for sake of the discussion....

    Mastery Mana upkeeps, even increase depending on the number of pets and characters in the Party affected. I understand that every 5 mobiles (characters, pets and mounted pets) raise upkeep costs by 1 Mana every 2 seconds.

    And to that Mana upkeep cost, also the mana cost of spells used needs to be added....

    Buttom line is, what is the Mana Regeneration that a Bard/Mage would need to reach, in order to be fully functional using Masteries and spells without worrying about running out of Mana ?
    My mystic/bard with 250 mana 30 mr 45lmc 120 meditation 120 focus has no trouble buffing a party of 8 as long as i only cast the occasional RC
  • PawainPawain Posts: 7,772
    edited March 1
    You let the cat out of the bag he has to also have Meditation for max regen.

    @popps you can't go do what you need to do and see if you need more MR?

    Take the bard out, and party with players and see if you can run 2 buffs.

    As usual, there is not 1 answer to this question except, you want as much MR as needed to do the things you want to do.  It's a personal template, we are not all the same.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,834
    edited March 1
    Grimbeard said:
    popps said:
    keven2002 said:

    The answer will depend on what you are looking to do and what template you are using.

    Let's say a Bard/Mage, just for sake of the discussion....

    Mastery Mana upkeeps, even increase depending on the number of pets and characters in the Party affected. I understand that every 5 mobiles (characters, pets and mounted pets) raise upkeep costs by 1 Mana every 2 seconds.

    And to that Mana upkeep cost, also the mana cost of spells used needs to be added....

    Buttom line is, what is the Mana Regeneration that a Bard/Mage would need to reach, in order to be fully functional using Masteries and spells without worrying about running out of Mana ?
    My mystic/bard with 250 mana 30 mr 45lmc 120 meditation 120 focus has no trouble buffing a party of 8 as long as i only cast the occasional RC
    my three 4x Bard Mage can sustain the buff and occasionally heal my warrior. If I recall correctly they only have 120 med and around 25-30 MR. No focus required unless casting the mana heavy spells.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 704
    popps said:
    keven2002 said:

    The answer will depend on what you are looking to do and what template you are using.

    Let's say a Bard/Mage, just for sake of the discussion....


    So this is a hypothetical question?

    YOU DON'T ACTUALLY NEED HELP?

    so this is just another random question that WASTES peoples time???????

    So you can mass debate and argue a totally pointless topic to death just for the sake of discussion?

    @Mariah, this is another TROLL thread, wasting peoples time for NO REASON whatsoever?

    Popps, you are a very sad person, do you think it is reasonable to create nonsense topics jsut so you can waste peoples time?????

    This is something you can "discuss" in gen chat

    WHY HAVE YOU CREATED THIS IF YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW???
  • PawainPawain Posts: 7,772
    He never says what he wants to do so we will not uncover his evil plans. 
     >:) 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,570
    edited March 1
    Grimbeard said:
    popps said:
    keven2002 said:

    The answer will depend on what you are looking to do and what template you are using.

    Let's say a Bard/Mage, just for sake of the discussion....

    Mastery Mana upkeeps, even increase depending on the number of pets and characters in the Party affected. I understand that every 5 mobiles (characters, pets and mounted pets) raise upkeep costs by 1 Mana every 2 seconds.

    And to that Mana upkeep cost, also the mana cost of spells used needs to be added....

    Buttom line is, what is the Mana Regeneration that a Bard/Mage would need to reach, in order to be fully functional using Masteries and spells without worrying about running out of Mana ?
    My mystic/bard with 250 mana 30 mr 45lmc 120 meditation 120 focus has no trouble buffing a party of 8 as long as i only cast the occasional RC
    Thank you for the reply.

    I have some questions to better understand, if possible.....

    In order to reach 250 Mana from the 125 intelligence stat CAP, this means that you have had to find items to wear totallying 125 additional Mana.

    Since Mana Increase on items https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/magic-item-properties/ ranges from 1 to 8 for Armor (up to 10 on reforged items and for Loot), up to 6 on spellbooks and up to 5 on shields and jewellery, considering that we have 6 slots for armor (head, sleeves, gloves, chest, legs, gorget), 2 for jewellery and 1 for shield, may I ask how you were able to add 125 Mana Increase to your suit to reach 250 ?

    Even adding up all of the maxed out Mana Increase, I get 60 for the 6 armor slots, 15 for the jewellery and shield, and another 6 for a spellbook. That comes out as 81 additional Mana Increase....

    Furthermore, I noticed that you mentioned as having 30 MR while, as we know, it is uncapped albeit with diminishing returns as it gets higher...

    Why did you stop at 30 MR, then ? Because going further above would have meant having to sacrifice other properties likewise necessary for only marginal gains in Mana Regen ?

    I also noticed that you mentioned having both 120 Focus and 120 Meditation along with Mysticism.

    I gather then, that your Bard is not a 4 x 120 Bard ? Does it use any Magery ?

    Otherwise, you would have been able to fit in 120 x Music, Peace, Discord, Provocation, Mysticism, Meditation, Focus (960 skill points) + whatever Magery might be wanted which would be surprising and quite an extraordinary achievement.

    With Bards, it is my understanding that their Mastery buffs work better when all 4 Bardic skills are present and, that they are all real skill points, not from items.... if so, why then the choice not to have a 4 x 120 Bard ?

    By the way, can Bards have their hands occupied by a Shield and/or Spellbook/weapon or are they like thieves, who need to have both hands free in order to perform their profession ?
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,208
    My bard, she's a bit OTT on lrc, because I've gradually replaced the crafted pieces of her kit with MR3 and MR4 pieces that also increased that stat. She also wears imbued virtuoso suit. I've edited the pic to show that her actual MR is 32. Skills are real, not on items.

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,955
    edited March 1
    "meditation and focus plays a role with mana regen
    knuckleheads have good formula
    i queried it before with knucklehead creator because of some surprising results but after looking at source of formula and testing it on TC, it seemed to check out

    I was very surprised to learn that meditation can help even with non medable armor"

    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,052
    popps said:


    In order to reach 250 Mana from the 125 intelligence stat CAP, this means that you have had to find items to wear totallying 125 additional Mana.

    By the way, can Bards have their hands occupied by a Shield and/or Spellbook/weapon or are they like thieves, who need to have both hands free in order to perform their profession ?

    Stats overcap to 150 with items. Hunt pieces that are +5int +10mana.

    Bards can or not carry anything they want. 

    Deleted your response to McDougie but most of us are content with having a dual client support role character that has a specific job and can't possibly do it all. Something like this to just run masteries i'd use an EJ account.
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 422
    edited March 5
    Mana Regeneration property from gear/buffs/forms actually does appear to hard cap at 30. I can have a total of 92 MR (+52 MR from gear, +22 from Resilience, +13 from Lich Form, +2 from Ankh Necklace Honesty buff, +3 from Holy Mackeral Pie), and yet it takes the exact same amount of time to go from 0 Mana to full than if i had a total of just 30 MR. Once you hit 30 MR from gear/buffs/forms, only INT/Meditation/Focus skills can affect it further.

    A char with 150 INT/120 Meditation/120 Focus/30 MR has the max passive mana regeneration rate possible. The only possible way to recover Mana faster after this, is through active recovery like Wraith Form draining, Hit Mana Leeching, Mana Vampire on low Resist/high Mana foes, Ethereal Blast Magery Mastery ability, Shadow Wisp ability, or Mana Draught item.
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 350
    sweet spot is around 18-20.  my archers / throwers are more than fine with around 14, mages i like at least 18.  your not going to see a huge difference between 20-30 usually not worth sacrificing other mods unless maybe your a bard.
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