Crafted vs loot

Every looted item (arties included) should have a craftable counter part  
Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
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Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,956
    edited August 14
    So we have no reason to kill stuff?  


    The reason UO has lasted 25 years is because our suits can be upgraded.

    I don't think UO dollhouse would be able to sustain itself.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    You would still have to collect ingredients but nice try if you want to contribute to the discussion i welcome input but if you're just gonna sugar troll we're gonna end up back in the principal's office. ..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,956
    edited August 14
    I stick with.  Why would we kill stuff.  What ingredients?  The 60k things players already have?

    This is just a troll thread.  Have fun.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Crafting most certainly should be on par with looted items making them should be difficult but possible 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,746
    edited August 14
    The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

    If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,278
    edited August 14
    Seth said:
    The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

    If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.
    I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

    And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 626
    edited August 14
    Well, we can't unring the bell. But I do think it would have made for a more interesting and interactive UO world if special prizes, let's say Crimson Cincture for example, came to us by a means more akin to something like this...


    *A Crimson Belt, a sought-after drop found on Peerless mobs. The belt alone does little but is a powerful ingredient. To get to your goal of owning a Crimson Cincture you'll still need other specific ingredients and particular crafting skills:  
    *Blue Diamond for Dexterity Bonus
    *Luminescent Fungi for Hit Point Increase
    *Seed of Renewal for Hit Point Regeneration
    *Imbuing ingredient/s gained through unravelling ( Relic Fragment / Magical Residue / Enchanted Essence or some combination thereof).
    *Leather or Cloth or both
    *A player with Imbuing / Tailoring skills is needed to craft the piece.

    Something like this would have covered a lot of bases. It would have appeal to skilled fighters, capable of finding a Crimson Belt drop.  Players who enjoy resource gathering. Players who enjoy crafting. And would be a good seller on player vendors.

    It would work both ways, Popps. Fighters and Crafters both would be needed.

    Edit: To add, I realize this all sort of falls under imbuing here, but this is just one example of how multiple players and player skills could have been called into play. Rather than artifacts and single drops being all that was involved to reach the prize.
     
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Both Seth and Lily get the idea 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,338
    popps said:
    Seth said:
    The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

    If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.
    I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

    And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....
    How to state this in a way @popps could understand this.  You would be crafting this stuff for a non-crafter type of char.  Now that char. could belong to you on another player, if he belongs to you than that char is not a crafter and is able to go collect resources for your crafter.  If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both.  You thinking that crafters with no other skills should be able to get their resources with no help is totally unreal.  Even in UO a blacksmith needs a non crafting skill like MINING to go gather ore or a Carpenter/Fletcher needs a non-crafting like LUMBERJACK to gather and mill wood.  How do you get leather without a warrior to go kill and skin animals.  You complain about crafters relying on warriors to get their resources so shouldn't you also take up the fight for the warriors who rely on crafters to keep them outfitted.  For 25 years UO has been this way and if you dislike it so much then why are you here still complaining, you should have left a long time ago.  You have a Tamer, Casters and Warriors, we know this because you are always complaining about what they can not do, so what is your problem.  Yes there are some resources that cost a lot to get and if you are making stuff that requires them then you prices for those goods should reflect the cost of goods plus your labor to make them.  So now I guess you will complain about how unfair that crafters need to know about being a merchant to properly know how to buy and sell.  I will close with the FACT that you are toxic to UO and if I only read your posts then I would never play UO because according to you UO SUCKS.  Go play on TC where you can get unlimited resources for free and leave the real uo to the real uo players.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
     Two approaches
    Let's take a scholar's halo a strange bandana falls into your pack first thing it would have to be identified (remember when id item was cool) as there should be 2 version a good and cursed (more later) after you learn what it is you gotta go get this and that to "activate" 

    Second scenario same item but crafter has to somehow find recipes then gather resources 

    There is no downside to this people who want to grind can etc

    Ok people are going to right away cry you'll flood the market it'll lose value i say good i don't care about your market..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 924
    McDougle said:
    Crafting most certainly should be on par with looted items making them should be difficult but possible 

    I would agree with this with reforging.

    I'd rather push for better imbuing personally. Increased base resists with a few added mods bringing imbuing on par to high end major equip. Leave the best of the best equip for hunters. 

    I'm positive just a few years ago we had almost this identical thread where they were going to discuss ways to boost crafting. 
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Here is the thing 
    Weapons almost exclusively crafted very few looted and arties used
    Armor much more mixed most looted armor better than what we can craft this is area that needs most improvement 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 924
    McDougle said:
    Here is the thing 
    Weapons almost exclusively crafted very few looted and arties used
    Armor much more mixed most looted armor better than what we can craft this is area that needs most improvement 

    Imbued jewels need a boost too. 
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 323
    edited August 14
    The loot variety now is the best we've ever had.  remember when ALL the best gear was crafted?  that wasnt fun.  then ALL the best gear was imbued.  also not fun.  we have a pretty good mix now, and prices have come way way down compared to gearing a character 10-15 years ago.

    its nice to have some rare items for people wanting to min / max, an alternatives.

    there would be absolutely no way the devs could make a craftable item and its loot component equal.  each item would either be crafted, or looted.  whichever was cheaper / easier.  theres really no reason to have both, as the end result would be the same as we have now with some craftable some lootable.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Urge said:
    McDougle said:
    Here is the thing 
    Weapons almost exclusively crafted very few looted and arties used
    Armor much more mixed most looted armor better than what we can craft this is area that needs most improvement 

    Imbued jewels need a boost too. 
    Tinker and all crafts need to be brought in line with tailor and blacksmith raised to 120 and definitely needing runics 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,278
    edited August 14
    popps said:
    Seth said:
    The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

    If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.
    I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

    And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....
    How to state this in a way @ popps could understand this.  You would be crafting this stuff for a non-crafter type of char.  Now that char. could belong to you on another player, if he belongs to you than that char is not a crafter and is able to go collect resources for your crafter.  If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both.  You thinking that crafters with no other skills should be able to get their resources with no help is totally unreal.  Even in UO a blacksmith needs a non crafting skill like MINING to go gather ore or a Carpenter/Fletcher needs a non-crafting like LUMBERJACK to gather and mill wood.  How do you get leather without a warrior to go kill and skin animals.  You complain about crafters relying on warriors to get their resources so shouldn't you also take up the fight for the warriors who rely on crafters to keep them outfitted.  For 25 years UO has been this way and if you dislike it so much then why are you here still complaining, you should have left a long time ago.  You have a Tamer, Casters and Warriors, we know this because you are always complaining about what they can not do, so what is your problem.  Yes there are some resources that cost a lot to get and if you are making stuff that requires them then you prices for those goods should reflect the cost of goods plus your labor to make them.  So now I guess you will complain about how unfair that crafters need to know about being a merchant to properly know how to buy and sell.  I will close with the FACT that you are toxic to UO and if I only read your posts then I would never play UO because according to you UO SUCKS.  Go play on TC where you can get unlimited resources for free and leave the real uo to the real uo players.
    If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both. 

    That is the concept, to my opinion, which screwed up players solely interested in crafting for good with the Mondain's Legacy materials only (or mostly) obtainable through fighting (also the imbuing ones, for that matter....).

    Players who had crafting "mules", that is, they had fighting characters as their "main" and then had "also" crafting characters to be self-sufficient for the materials needed by their crafters, not only lowered the demand for crafted items since many players had their crafting "mules" and thus did not need to buy from fellow players who had "pure" crafters, but, also, since they were getting the materials on their own, through their fighters, they were "also" able to undersell "pure" crafters for crafted items who, instead, had to pay jacked up prices for their materials from other players who had fighters...

    Result, "pure" crafters went, for the most part, the way of the Dodo.....

    The only crafting which resisted as available for players who really loved crafting (not fighting) and thus had their mains as "pure" crafters, were items particularly complex and complicated to craft requiring a deep knowledge of all of the ins and outs about crafting, enhancing, imbuing, reforging and all that.... because lots of players who had crafters as only their "mules", did not want to invest too much effort in all of the complexities of crafting and only did the "surface" crafting, not the deep, complex crafting...

    But, unfortunately, that was not enough to support the large community of crafters that Ultima Online once had... and that is how, to my opinion, we ended up in today's UO with the rather depressing state of crafting that there is.....
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,278
    Urge said:
    McDougle said:
    Crafting most certainly should be on par with looted items making them should be difficult but possible 

    I would agree with this with reforging.

    I'd rather push for better imbuing personally. Increased base resists with a few added mods bringing imbuing on par to high end major equip. Leave the best of the best equip for hunters. 

    I'm positive just a few years ago we had almost this identical thread where they were going to discuss ways to boost crafting. 
    I'm positive just a few years ago we had almost this identical thread where they were going to discuss ways to boost crafting.

    Meh, a good while back, if I recall it correctly, I read posts in these Forums about the Developers having some good ideas on how to improve Rogues and thieving..... I was hoping to see Rogues being implemented in the "Treasures of" Events with stealing from Monsters, hidden chests and all that Rogues could do to get their Artifacts to then turn in for Rewards but we are still here waiting.....
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Unless we go back to one character per account the days of crafters being "needed " are done let go of the past 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,956
    We have advanced and know how to play UO more efficiently. I spent a year or more having a mix of skills on the one character that I played.
  • TimTim Posts: 712
    Smoot said:
    The loot variety now is the best we've ever had.  remember when ALL the best gear was crafted?  that wasnt fun.  then ALL the best gear was imbued.  also not fun.  we have a pretty good mix now, and prices have come way way down compared to gearing a character 10-15 years ago.

    its nice to have some rare items for people wanting to min / max, an alternatives.

    there would be absolutely no way the devs could make a craftable item and its loot component equal.  each item would either be crafted, or looted.  whichever was cheaper / easier.  theres really no reason to have both, as the end result would be the same as we have now with some craftable some lootable.
    Actually that was a fun time I really enjoyed. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean others didn't like it.

    And no if an item could be both looted or crafted some players would go for each depending on their preference. If I like the battle to get the drop I'll get that version if not I would prefer the option of crafting it. Some people enjoy sourcing the ingredients and crafting something for them selves.

    To butcher a quote from Spider Robinson "If you go into a sex shop you will notice that no more the 10% of the product interests any one person and it is NEVER  the same 10%"

    Trying to make All parts of UO appeal to All players is a fools errand and will destroy the game.

    Sorry if this seem a personal attack it's not intended to be. This one size fits all attitude is just a hot button issue for me.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,746
    edited August 15
    Yeah, 100% agreed they should not force one size fit all.

    E.g. for those shards who have many players who supported shard bound items, should lock up the shard and stop character transfer. You asked for it, so you may have it but only for YOUR shard.

    While the rest of the shards with majority voted to keep shard transfer open, shall enjoy 100% character shard transfer for all items and rewards.

    That said back to OP, crafted versions of dynamic event rewards are welcomed and should be non shard bound for the "normal shards".
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,338
    popps said:
    popps said:
    Seth said:
    The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

    If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.
    I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

    And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....
    How to state this in a way @ popps could understand this.  You would be crafting this stuff for a non-crafter type of char.  Now that char. could belong to you on another player, if he belongs to you than that char is not a crafter and is able to go collect resources for your crafter.  If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both.  You thinking that crafters with no other skills should be able to get their resources with no help is totally unreal.  Even in UO a blacksmith needs a non crafting skill like MINING to go gather ore or a Carpenter/Fletcher needs a non-crafting like LUMBERJACK to gather and mill wood.  How do you get leather without a warrior to go kill and skin animals.  You complain about crafters relying on warriors to get their resources so shouldn't you also take up the fight for the warriors who rely on crafters to keep them outfitted.  For 25 years UO has been this way and if you dislike it so much then why are you here still complaining, you should have left a long time ago.  You have a Tamer, Casters and Warriors, we know this because you are always complaining about what they can not do, so what is your problem.  Yes there are some resources that cost a lot to get and if you are making stuff that requires them then you prices for those goods should reflect the cost of goods plus your labor to make them.  So now I guess you will complain about how unfair that crafters need to know about being a merchant to properly know how to buy and sell.  I will close with the FACT that you are toxic to UO and if I only read your posts then I would never play UO because according to you UO SUCKS.  Go play on TC where you can get unlimited resources for free and leave the real uo to the real uo players.
    If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both. 

    That is the concept, to my opinion, which screwed up players solely interested in crafting for good with the Mondain's Legacy materials only (or mostly) obtainable through fighting (also the imbuing ones, for that matter....).

    Players who had crafting "mules", that is, they had fighting characters as their "main" and then had "also" crafting characters to be self-sufficient for the materials needed by their crafters, not only lowered the demand for crafted items since many players had their crafting "mules" and thus did not need to buy from fellow players who had "pure" crafters, but, also, since they were getting the materials on their own, through their fighters, they were "also" able to undersell "pure" crafters for crafted items who, instead, had to pay jacked up prices for their materials from other players who had fighters...

    Result, "pure" crafters went, for the most part, the way of the Dodo.....

    The only crafting which resisted as available for players who really loved crafting (not fighting) and thus had their mains as "pure" crafters, were items particularly complex and complicated to craft requiring a deep knowledge of all of the ins and outs about crafting, enhancing, imbuing, reforging and all that.... because lots of players who had crafters as only their "mules", did not want to invest too much effort in all of the complexities of crafting and only did the "surface" crafting, not the deep, complex crafting...

    But, unfortunately, that was not enough to support the large community of crafters that Ultima Online once had... and that is how, to my opinion, we ended up in today's UO with the rather depressing state of crafting that there is.....
    I have no clue what game you are dreaming of but I have played real UO for over 25 years and I started out as a crafter as my main with a warrior as support.  Pure crafters have always been reliant on other people providing them with raw material to make weapons/armor and it is still true today as it was in the beginning
  • creampiecreampie Posts: 4
    best items should always be on loot
  • SkettSkett Posts: 574
    creampie said:
    best items should always be on loot
    Then what are crafters for 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 924
    Best of the best maybe, but crafters should sure as crap be able to make something close enough to be decent.

    Crafted armor is too bad to even use for training. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,956
    edited August 16
    Skett said:
    creampie said:
    best items should always be on loot
    Then what are crafters for 
    To create fill in items.  Like for Dexxers, Gorgets, arms and Chests if you dont use the Balron ones.
    Arties are: Feudal grips, Britches of warding, which crafters make, Mace and shield or prismatic.

    Mages for Spellwoven Britches if you are an elf, Chest, gorget, and gloves.
    Arties are: Cuffs of archmage , Dr. Spectors or Halo (crafted), pants from fishing.

    You could also craft a complete suit for Swords and Magery if you want. 

    Like I said in another thread, all of my dexxers wear reforged pieces.
    None of my weapons are looted, all are crafted.

    Most luck suits have many crafted pieces.
  • SkettSkett Posts: 574
    Ok 
    Funny no pom pom emoji here 
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,956
    McDougle said:
    So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???
    Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Pawain said:
    McDougle said:
    So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???
    Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?
    Crafting a artie would require difficult to obtain ingredients time and resources no one is asking for an easy button simply to have A. Their favorite class on equal footing and B. Alternative ways to get things and yes my suits are worth 100s of millions and I fish and pirate with them..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
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