Craft skill masteries: revival of crafting in UO

InLorInLor Posts: 353
edited May 2018 in General Discussions
How about masteries for crafting skills are introduced to making crafting count again? I would roughly aim for special properties on crafted items that come close or are on the level of some of the best loot (but different). You can also add cool features to it like making architecture a carpentry mastery, see this thread: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1226/feature-suggestion-custom-house-architect-deeds?new=1
A qua lemmúr wíste, an zen anku vol verde wís.
«1

Comments

  • InLorInLor Posts: 353
    Let's use this thread to brainstorm on cool stuff for crafting masteries.
    A qua lemmúr wíste, an zen anku vol verde wís.
  • RockRock Posts: 567
    edited May 2018
    While not presented as a "crafting mastery", nor do I believe it needs to be, here is a suggestion to improve durability of exceptional items crafted with exceptional tools:

    * https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1202/a-crafty-yet-exceptionally-exceptional-suggestion

    I hope that it can be considered as part of the "brainstorming".
    Rock (formerly Imperterritus VXt, Baja)
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Anything that would allow crafters to be on a more even playing field with items being dropped from monsters should be %1000 implemented.  It has been a very long time that all crafters have been upgrade compared to loot drops.  120 scrolls for all crafting skills and support skills obtained through the BOD System.  All Crafting Masteries should be done with crafting type quests.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 911
    edited May 2018
    1. Create a Runic Tinker Kit Bod reward, that can be used to make jewelry.
    2. Add the word Enhanced to Enhanced items.
    3. Improve the amount of properties and points allowed in Greater Reforging.


    That's my 3 cents for now.

  • crunchnastycrunchnasty Posts: 241
    I'm for crafters having a more important role in todays UO ecosystem and economy. Its obvious that we need to go back to a more SKILL BASED game vs just item based. but hey lets all just walk around with full legendary suits and jewels that give us 820+ skills instead 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 911
    I'm for crafters having a more important role in todays UO ecosystem and economy. Its obvious that we need to go back to a more SKILL BASED game vs just item based. but hey lets all just walk around with full legendary suits and jewels that give us 820+ skills instead 


    I think Crafters should be able to get close to PvMable gear.

    The time sink for them, would be collecting the resources and materials required.

  • crunchnastycrunchnasty Posts: 241
    Yeah we need something to make crafting more relevant to the overall game is what I'm saying. 

    But again, the same goes for stealing, and other skills long forgotten.
  • RockRock Posts: 567
    Bilbo said:
    Anything that would allow crafters to be on a more even playing field with items being dropped from monsters should be %1000 implemented.  It has been a very long time that all crafters have been upgrade compared to loot drops.  120 scrolls for all crafting skills and support skills obtained through the BOD System.  All Crafting Masteries should be done with crafting type quests.
    Bilbo, I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded part.  Currently, power scrolls are available for Blacksmithing, Tailoring, and Imbuing.  A general purpose crafter (blacksmith, tailor, tinker, carpenter -- along with Arms Lore) already has a very tight template.  What purpose does it serve to reduce template flexibility even further?  Heck, if it were up to me, I'd go the opposite route  and limit the three aforementioned skills to 100 points.  I guess I'm old-fashioned, but the old 7x GM builds should not be limited in their effectiveness.  PvM and PvP skills are different -- forcing template compromise is part of the game.  I just don't see that it serves a purpose in crafting.
    Rock (formerly Imperterritus VXt, Baja)
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Rock said:
    Bilbo said:
    Anything that would allow crafters to be on a more even playing field with items being dropped from monsters should be %1000 implemented.  It has been a very long time that all crafters have been upgrade compared to loot drops.  120 scrolls for all crafting skills and support skills obtained through the BOD System.  All Crafting Masteries should be done with crafting type quests.
    Bilbo, I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded part.  Currently, power scrolls are available for Blacksmithing, Tailoring, and Imbuing.  A general purpose crafter (blacksmith, tailor, tinker, carpenter -- along with Arms Lore) already has a very tight template.  What purpose does it serve to reduce template flexibility even further?  Heck, if it were up to me, I'd go the opposite route  and limit the three aforementioned skills to 100 points.  I guess I'm old-fashioned, but the old 7x GM builds should not be limited in their effectiveness.  PvM and PvP skills are different -- forcing template compromise is part of the game.  I just don't see that it serves a purpose in crafting.
    Almost all players running crafters have more than one char as a crafter and if you can not afford to have more than one crafter than there is always soulstones.  To not consider this for the sole reason of being tight on skills is just wrong.  You forgot fletching, mining, jumperjack, magery, inscription, music, cooking, alchemy, imbuing.  Min 3 chars per account or a lot of stones.  7xGMs became outdated with Pub 16 and became totally useless with AoS and every loot bump from then on.  In order to go back to a 7x being viable UO would have to super boost crafters and we all know that is not going to happen.
  • crunchnastycrunchnasty Posts: 241
    jumperjack? hmnm I need to add that one to my crafter.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    jumperjack? hmnm I need to add that one to my crafter.
    LOL  Lumberjack
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,319

    I would like to see Tinker go up to 120.  For imbuers give them the ability to imbue slayer capabilities on to rings and bracelets and raise the max imbue-able SDI to 16.  Allow legendary blacksmiths to make wire.  Allow legendary tailors to make rope.

  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,175
    Long overdue
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • RockRock Posts: 567
    edited May 2018
    TimSt said:

    I would like to see Tinker go up to 120.  ...

    @TimSt, I'm just not getting it.  What is there to gain by your and @Bilbo's idea of extending Tinkering and other crafting and craft-related skills to 120?  What would we gain that talismans do not already offer?

    The suggestion reminds me of the scene from the great mockumentary This is Spinal Tap where the band guy brags about his amplifier that can be turned up to 11:



    I'm the Rob Reiner character, realizing that it is just a gimmick; everything could be scaled to 10 just as easily.

    In UO's case, doing so would not just be a gimmick. Craftsmen who want to make the best possible stuff would be forced to alter their templates.  Unless there is something major to gain, I don't see the benefit.

    I'm not saying "something major" is impossible.  Consider a concurrent thread on this forum:

    * https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1191/are-tinkered-pets-worth-making-and-using

    If tinkered pets were enhanced and trainable in the manner tamers can now do, then yeah, a great case could be made for allowing the Tinkering Skill to go up to 120.  Arms Lore would be the associated skill,like Animal Lore is for Animal Taming, and it would go up to 120 as well.  In this example, a tinker who did not want to bother with controlling robots would remain just as effective as he is now, with "only" 100 skill in Tinkering and Arms Lore.

    In summary, I don't feel it would be beneficial to raise other craft-related skill caps to 120 unless something fundamental and useful is added for those particular skills.  Should the caps be raised, already existing craftsmen would have to be able to continue to do everything they already do now. Talismans would continue to operate as they do now, except there would be a more direct comparison to +skill rings, etc. However, talismans would remain just as effective even if the character did not raise his skill caps.
    Rock (formerly Imperterritus VXt, Baja)
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,319
    edited May 2018

    @Rock : For me it is about improving the success chance.  For example my GM tinker with a 21% Tinkering Bonus talisman only has a 71% chance at making a distillery. With copper wire being either a thief, pirate treasure, or buy it from another player item I do not like those odds.

  • I love my crafter and other than repairs never log in with him. Crafter revamp is such a good idea! Can think of no negative or imbalance to doing so
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 542
    edited May 2018
    Anything that would allow crafters to be on a more even playing field with items being dropped from monsters should be %1000 implemented.  It has been a very long time that all crafters have been upgrade compared to loot drops.  120 scrolls for all crafting skills and support skills obtained through the BOD System.  All Crafting Masteries should be done with crafting type quests.
    If the dev team decides to allow all crafting skills to go to 120, then they will need to add several more craftable items to each skill to let you actually gain skill from 100 to 120.

    I would hate to see people have to rely exclusively on scrolls of transcendence to finish training skills they may have thought they were completely finished training many years ago. And considering that there is still no way to finish training Taste ID and the devs admitted a few years back they dropped the ball with respect to training spellweaving to 120, I wonder how much priority they would put into adding more things to make for all these skills that currently stop at 100. They had a big team working on Stygian Abyss and added some nice things that took few resources to help you train smithing and tailoring to 120 in lieu of what we previously did. Do we really think they have the time to think of and implement more "difficult-to-craft" things to make for alchemy, carpentry, cooking, fletching, inscription, tinkering?
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 233
    I think the solutions I had were pretty simple at one point. Have to see if I can find the notes. 

    The first thing was pretty easy, allow players to imbue 7 mods and +200% Intensity, Once you break the 5 mod cap/old cap the item becomes antique. This would allow crafters to make the equivalent of Greater/major Antique Artifacts through imbuing, but they would be short lived. This is a good Niche for Pvpers who don't want to invest billions into their suits, but would like to at least be a little closer without investing Billions. 

    This would kill off some markets for loot to be sure, but would also revitalize others. Making clean lesser/prized greaters able to be imbued up. Same with the current max level reforging. Skill increase legendaries, and legendaries that are over the 700% cap would still be desirable. 

    Reforging changes involve them tinkering with the Currently useless names. (other than siege) 

    Simplifying this from my old idea that I posted on stratics. 
    Structural, fortified, fundamental, and Integral mechanics should allll just go out the window. in their place it should be 

    Structural +50% Intensity to max cap 
    Fortified +50% To max Cap +1 Random Mod 
    Fundamental +100% To Intensity Cap, Adds Brittle, 
    Integral + 100% intensity Cap, +1 Random Mod + Durability Cap Adjusted based on Runic

    Val/Barbed/Heart - 255 Durability 
    Horned/yew/Gold - 200 Durability 
    Spined/oak/shadow - 75 Durability 

    This prevents players from Using low end hammers in place of POF, AND this system also allows you to essentially turn 1 low end runic into the next level through Structural + Fortified. And it would open up a new level of Clean and Brittle Gear for Pvpers/pvmers. 

    BUT because of the resists that are still on Legendary/major artifacts, these will not replace those pieces, but this will instead be used to fill the gaps in suits. 

    +Bump to Imbuing 
    +Bump to Runic Reforging. 



  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    edited May 2018
    So then why would we have Smith, Tailor and Imbuers go to 120 when as you say @Rock we have talismans that do that and for smiths we have ash hammers too.  People that craft all the time understand that 120 + talisman boost would be far better than 100 + the same talisman.  It takes more than 1 char to have all the crafting skills of soulstones.  Anything that can aide a crafter should be considered, sorry IMHO if you think crafters should be limited to one char.
  • DavoDavo Posts: 46

    does anyone think uo is getting/starting to get over developed. the new loot semi destroyed some crafting. not sure what should be done. I don't think 120 skill is the answer. don't have room for more skill points and not sure if that is really needed to fix things.

  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Crafters have been basically dead from AoS on and the DEVs keep adding better loot all the time without upgrading crafters the same amount.  I am not saying crafters should be able to make the best items but we cant even come close to what the DEVs let drop as loot.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    The answer is simple, return brittle items to the original durability they had (which was around 75)

    Here is what happened, brittle items spawned with that low durability. And everyone wrongly thought that brittle items lost durability faster than normal items. Then people said to mesanna that all the new loot is useless and they can’t use it. So mesanna listened and raised the durability to 255!? now these items will literally last forever so why would I use an imbued piece which will also have 255 durability and not be pofable? 

    People now realise that brittle items do not lose durability faster so the durability should be returned to the original amount, then players would think more about using reforged/imbued pieces and might go for longevity over mods. Cos at the moment it’s a no brainer to use legendaries. 

    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,175
    King_Greg said:
    I think the solutions I had were pretty simple at one point. Have to see if I can find the notes. 

    The first thing was pretty easy, allow players to imbue 7 mods and +200% Intensity, Once you break the 5 mod cap/old cap the item becomes antique. This would allow crafters to make the equivalent of Greater/major Antique Artifacts through imbuing, but they would be short lived. This is a good Niche for Pvpers who don't want to invest billions into their suits, but would like to at least be a little closer without investing Billions. 

    This would kill off some markets for loot to be sure, but would also revitalize others. Making clean lesser/prized greaters able to be imbued up. Same with the current max level reforging. Skill increase legendaries, and legendaries that are over the 700% cap would still be desirable. 

    Reforging changes involve them tinkering with the Currently useless names. (other than siege) 

    Simplifying this from my old idea that I posted on stratics. 
    Structural, fortified, fundamental, and Integral mechanics should allll just go out the window. in their place it should be 

    Structural +50% Intensity to max cap 
    Fortified +50% To max Cap +1 Random Mod 
    Fundamental +100% To Intensity Cap, Adds Brittle, 
    Integral + 100% intensity Cap, +1 Random Mod + Durability Cap Adjusted based on Runic

    Val/Barbed/Heart - 255 Durability 
    Horned/yew/Gold - 200 Durability 
    Spined/oak/shadow - 75 Durability 

    This prevents players from Using low end hammers in place of POF, AND this system also allows you to essentially turn 1 low end runic into the next level through Structural + Fortified. And it would open up a new level of Clean and Brittle Gear for Pvpers/pvmers. 

    BUT because of the resists that are still on Legendary/major artifacts, these will not replace those pieces, but this will instead be used to fill the gaps in suits. 

    +Bump to Imbuing 
    +Bump to Runic Reforging. 




    I'm not blaming you, but reading this gave me a headache, which is everything that's wrong with crafting. So yeah, lets convolute it more.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Mervyn said:
    The answer is simple, return brittle items to the original durability they had (which was around 75)

    Here is what happened, brittle items spawned with that low durability. And everyone wrongly thought that brittle items lost durability faster than normal items. Then people said to mesanna that all the new loot is useless and they can’t use it. So mesanna listened and raised the durability to 255!? now these items will literally last forever so why would I use an imbued piece which will also have 255 durability and not be pofable? 

    People now realise that brittle items do not lose durability faster so the durability should be returned to the original amount, then players would think more about using reforged/imbued pieces and might go for longevity over mods. Cos at the moment it’s a no brainer to use legendaries. 

    How would this improve crafting?
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited May 2018
    Because then people would do reforging more to get high end items instead of using legendaries which are almost always brittle.

    We definitely don't want to increase the power of craftable items or else there will just be too many high powered items. So the only solution is to effectively decrease the power of legendaries. Obviously people who already have suits with legendaries would not want their current items to just go poof. So the only solution is to lower the durability, giving them the option to gradually change over time.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Reforging doesn't come close to what drops as loot, brittle or not.  As long as there are farmers at the legendary drops 24/7 nothing will change unless the DEVs make crafters relevant again.
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 233
    I'm not blaming you, but reading this gave me a headache, which is everything that's wrong with crafting. So yeah, lets convolute it more.
    Well, that was the backend to it. To the average player it would just be this. 

    The imbuing change is Imbue 7 Mods, 700% cap, you break 500% it becomes antique. 

    Reforging Change. The more of the top 5 you check, the more powerful the item, you want clean you check the top 3, you want Brittle and maximum output you check the top 5. Everything else is literally the same as it is now.  
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    @King_Greg how many points are these ubber loot drops and how close to them do you think your proposal would get to them?  Right now crafting/imbuing takes a degree in engineering, we need it stream lined so it is not the headache it has become and the ability to make better equipment.
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 233
    edited May 2018
    Bilbo said:
    @ King_Greg how many points are these ubber loot drops and how close to them do you think your proposal would get to them?  Right now crafting/imbuing takes a degree in engineering, we need it stream lined so it is not the headache it has become and the ability to make better equipment.
    Well, you don't want crafted gear to exceed loot in my opinion. It should be close or fill a niche, but not higher. This gives players a reason to loot bodies.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Simple Break Down

    Current caps
    1. Imbuing - 5 Mods, 500% Intensity 
    2. Max Reforging 5-6 Mods 600% Intensity 
    3. Named Legendaries - ~10-11 Mods, 1000%++ Intensity 
    4. No Named Legendaries - ~14+ Mods 1000% ++ Intensity 

    My suggestion 
    1. Imbuing - 7 Mods 700% Intensity, But Antique, so short lived. Could even do 150 Durability
    2. Max Reforging Brittle - 7-8 Mods,  2 Mods.being random, 8-900% Intensity  
    3. Max Reforging Clean - 6-7 Mods, 1 mod being random, 6-700% Intensity 
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Engineering degree necessary below here

    Imbuing Examples

    Ring 
    Antique 
    Enhance Potions 25% 
    Hit chance Increase 15%
    Defense Chance increase 10% 
    Faster Cast recovery 3
    Faster Casting 1 
    Swing Speed Increase 10% 
    Damage Increase 25%

    Armor 
    Antique 
    Hit Point Increase 5 
    Stamina Increase 8 
    Mana Increase 8 
    Hit Point Regen 2 
    Stamina Regen 2 
    Mana Regen 2 
    Lower Mana Cost 8 
    35-36 Total Resists (Prevent items crafted with special materials from breaking the 500% cap)

    Reforging examples

    Old Desirable Reforge 
    (6 Charges)
    Animated Studded Gorget of Sorcery 
    Dex 4 
    Stam 10 
    Mana 8 
    Mana Regen 3 
    Lower Mana Cost 8
    Crafted Resists

    Under the suggested reforging change, this would be a rare possibility. 

    (10 Charges)
    Animated Studded Gorget of Sorcery 
    Brittle
    Dex 4  
    Int 4
    Hp 5 
    Stam 10 
    Mana 8 
    Mana Regen 3
    Hit chance Increase 5 
    Lower Mana Cost 8 
    Crafted Resists

    (6 Charges)
    Studded Gorget
    Strength 4
    Hp 5 
    Stamina 10 
    Mana 10 
    Mana Regen 3 
    Hit chance Increase 5 
    Defense Chance Increase 5 
    Lower Mana Cost 8 

    I could give countless examples of possible suits, built from a mix of loot and reforging, Reforging and Imbuing, Just Straight Imbuing. 

    The Random Mods, make them more comparable to No Name Legendaries, This also gives a little surprise to the crafting when picking names. Am I going to get Damage Eater and Hit Chance as a bonus!? Or am I going to get Lower Requirements and a resist.... 

    Since it would take 10 Charges to reforge 1 Piece at this level, or 5 charges to go 100% random, you can see how you could wind up burning through a ton of runics trying for something With that specific of mods. This sort of gear is something you could use if you already had your resists taken care of though. 

  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    @King_Greg I never said make better but compared to what drops as loot crafters cant even come close to anything the DEVs do, even crappy loot is better than crafters gear.
Sign In or Register to comment.