Major reforging - Durability bug ?

2

Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    I have never used Structured and Fortified.  I would have thought they end up at 255 durability.

    You should have started the post with those incredible paint skills.  That actually shows the item lose durability.  Hopefully Misk sees that.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 704
    edited August 28
    "on reflection, 45 durability does seem way too low. useless infact.

    As from the OPs posts, I was under the impression that structural reforging was resulting 135 which is higher than most base durabilities, but is infact resulting in only 35 with structural and only 45 with fundamental.

    I think the durability of the fundamental  reforged piece should definitely at least be higher than the base craft durability,

    and although costly (using up a lot of PoF) should perhaps retain the 255/255 durability if the user has gambled the effort on PoFing the piece...
    with the gamble being the resulting item would not roll what the user wanted, 

    I now side with the OP"

    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,527
    Why do we need a bug policeman?? If Merv/yoshi doesn't approve it must not be a bug..
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
     :D 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 621
     B) 
  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    Any chances that any one from dev team will see this post and give answer ? plz plz plz
  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    Im planning to do such craft so i need to know if dev team will review/fix this issue in future. So i need to know shuld i wait or this is not in ur list to fix ? @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak @Misk
  • It may be good to collect some community feedback on overall crafting improvements that should be made. 

    Garret, good illustrations of a problem!!  From a practical perspective, I've never used the mods you call out -- they cost too much and your odds of getting what you want don't seem to materially improve.  (semmerset reforging tables very helpful).

    If you want to see the extremes that people go to in crafting, checkout the following:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQI2WKsR_Co
  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    edited September 21
     
    My go is weapons and shield like this, if u have no parry or weapon skill u will never brake those, so i rly don't care about durability but im wish to see 255 durability on such effort items. If u have any other tips how to craft items like this pm me, bcz 150 luck and high mr is nothing i can see some wher.
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  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited September 21
    Garret said:
    @ ForeverFun 

     
    My go is weapons and shield like this, if u have no parry or weapon skill u will never brake those, so i rly don't care about durability but im wish to see 255 durability on such effort items. If u have any other tips how to craft items like this pm me, bcz 150 luck and high mr is nothing i can see some wher.
    Checkout this site if you haven't seen it:
    https://www.knuckleheads.dk/tools/imbuing/weapon

    Search of semmerset reforge table, if you haven't seen that.

    The first bokuto with MR6 and SC, and luck 150 -- for that one, you're getting an imbuing weight of 550.  Normal cap for exceptional bokuto is 500.  However, you'd need to consider how important the missing FC1 is.  You can craft a bokuto with just 150 luck fairly easily, and POF to 255/255, and then imbue it -leaving you with SC, FC1 (so no -1), luck 150, room for 2 other mods like mage weapon -20, DI5, and then enhance with oak using forged metal tool to get to 190 luck (+5DI).  It really depends on which properties you find most important.   If you have magery and no weapon skill, mage weapon is very useful, for defense in particular.

    Once you imbue, it's basically brittle at that point (can repair, cannot POF).

    At least for shields and damage, you need to be elf or gargoyle with zero parry.  Human jack of all trades gives you 20 parry... 
  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    Garret said:
    @ ForeverFun 

     
    My go is weapons and shield like this, if u have no parry or weapon skill u will never brake those, so i rly don't care about durability but im wish to see 255 durability on such effort items. If u have any other tips how to craft items like this pm me, bcz 150 luck and high mr is nothing i can see some wher.
    Checkout this site if you haven't seen it:
    https://www.knuckleheads.dk/tools/imbuing/weapon

    Search of semmerset reforge table, if you haven't seen that.

    The first bokuto with MR6 and SC, and luck 150 -- for that one, you're getting an imbuing weight of 550.  Normal cap for exceptional bokuto is 500.  However, you'd need to consider how important the missing FC1 is.  You can craft a bokuto with just 150 luck fairly easily, and POF to 255/255, and then imbue it -leaving you with SC, FC1 (so no -1), luck 150, room for 2 other mods like mage weapon -20, DI5, and then enhance with oak using forged metal tool to get to 190 luck (+5DI).  It really depends on which properties you find most important.   If you have magery and no weapon skill, mage weapon is very useful, for defense in particular.

    Once you imbue, it's basically brittle at that point (can repair, cannot POF).

    At least for shields and damage, you need to be elf or gargoyle with zero parry.  Human jack of all trades gives you 20 parry... 
    Well, ty for ur advices, but i no need, i posted what is my go, nothing similar u can craft via normal reforging or imbuing, dunno why every one try to teach me "how to craft right", but i have my way and my preferences. I reported what i think is broken, for effort u put u cant even go farther then 135 dura... Lol...   P.S. main idea is high mr with luck.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited September 21
    Garret said:
    Garret said:
    @ ForeverFun 

     
    My go is weapons and shield like this, if u have no parry or weapon skill u will never brake those, so i rly don't care about durability but im wish to see 255 durability on such effort items. If u have any other tips how to craft items like this pm me, bcz 150 luck and high mr is nothing i can see some wher.
    Checkout this site if you haven't seen it:
    https://www.knuckleheads.dk/tools/imbuing/weapon

    Search of semmerset reforge table, if you haven't seen that.

    The first bokuto with MR6 and SC, and luck 150 -- for that one, you're getting an imbuing weight of 550.  Normal cap for exceptional bokuto is 500.  However, you'd need to consider how important the missing FC1 is.  You can craft a bokuto with just 150 luck fairly easily, and POF to 255/255, and then imbue it -leaving you with SC, FC1 (so no -1), luck 150, room for 2 other mods like mage weapon -20, DI5, and then enhance with oak using forged metal tool to get to 190 luck (+5DI).  It really depends on which properties you find most important.   If you have magery and no weapon skill, mage weapon is very useful, for defense in particular.

    Once you imbue, it's basically brittle at that point (can repair, cannot POF).

    At least for shields and damage, you need to be elf or gargoyle with zero parry.  Human jack of all trades gives you 20 parry... 
    Well, ty for ur advices, but i no need, i posted what is my go, nothing similar u can craft via normal reforging or imbuing, dunno why every one try to teach me "how to craft right", but i have my way and my preferences. I reported what i think is broken, for effort u put u cant even go farther then 135 dura... Lol...   P.S. main idea is high mr with luck.
    Garret,

    Some things to consider:
    1. You may want to use blacksmith/hammers for the shield, in case hammers are cheaper than saws.
    2. You may want to use blacksmith/hammers for a 1 handed weapon, if you don't care about weapon specials/etc.
    3. The "Unicorn" 1 handed weapon would be Luck 150, MR9.  MR6 is straightforward to get on a weapon with luck.  (test center with the runics there help experiment).
    4. MR6+ has huge imbuing weight, so however you end up with it, you have limited other options.
    5. Still agree that what you've found is unfortunate.  Hopefully the devs make a call for input for a crafting revamp!
    Here are some things to consider on ATL vendor search, some are just showing the MR9 without luck:

  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    edited September 21
    Garret said:
    Garret said:
    @ ForeverFun 

     
    My go is weapons and shield like this, if u have no parry or weapon skill u will never brake those, so i rly don't care about durability but im wish to see 255 durability on such effort items. If u have any other tips how to craft items like this pm me, bcz 150 luck and high mr is nothing i can see some wher.
    Checkout this site if you haven't seen it:
    https://www.knuckleheads.dk/tools/imbuing/weapon

    Search of semmerset reforge table, if you haven't seen that.

    The first bokuto with MR6 and SC, and luck 150 -- for that one, you're getting an imbuing weight of 550.  Normal cap for exceptional bokuto is 500.  However, you'd need to consider how important the missing FC1 is.  You can craft a bokuto with just 150 luck fairly easily, and POF to 255/255, and then imbue it -leaving you with SC, FC1 (so no -1), luck 150, room for 2 other mods like mage weapon -20, DI5, and then enhance with oak using forged metal tool to get to 190 luck (+5DI).  It really depends on which properties you find most important.   If you have magery and no weapon skill, mage weapon is very useful, for defense in particular.

    Once you imbue, it's basically brittle at that point (can repair, cannot POF).

    At least for shields and damage, you need to be elf or gargoyle with zero parry.  Human jack of all trades gives you 20 parry... 
    Well, ty for ur advices, but i no need, i posted what is my go, nothing similar u can craft via normal reforging or imbuing, dunno why every one try to teach me "how to craft right", but i have my way and my preferences. I reported what i think is broken, for effort u put u cant even go farther then 135 dura... Lol...   P.S. main idea is high mr with luck.
    Garret,

    Some things to consider:
    1. You may want to use blacksmith/hammers for the shield, in case hammers are cheaper than saws.
    2. You may want to use blacksmith/hammers for a 1 handed weapon, if you don't care about weapon specials/etc.
    3. The "Unicorn" 1 handed weapon would be Luck 150, MR9.  MR6 is straightforward to get on a weapon with luck.  (test center with the runics there help experiment).
    4. MR6+ has huge imbuing weight, so however you end up with it, you have limited other options.
    5. Still agree that what you've found is unfortunate.  Hopefully the devs make a call for input for a crafting revamp!
    Here are some things to consider on ATL vendor search, some are just showing the MR9 without luck:

    What is wrong with uo community lol, why u keep giving advices in bug section, after i ask do not, all u say is clueless, all u link is bad items, hammers is hard to get and give same results, a lot of charges and hrs spended already on TC and not every one playing ATL. I just need dev comment that thing will be fixed or not.
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 197
    edited September 22
    Garret you have 100% my support. Crafting need so much love first of all, legendary brittle loot is already 255 durability, it just doesn't make sense that reforging a piece that doesn't even come close to 8 mods legendary, comes out with only 35-55 durability.
    The devs would need to come out with a mini-revamp on reforging just because these fortified/structural/fundemental are poorly designed. Because you can't pof a brittle item, and since it comes out with 35-55 dura , lets says it kind of sucks.
    It's one of the main reason I've never messed with fortified/structural,fundemental etc, when you can buy 255 durability legendary 8-mods loot, with all resist bumped to 18-19s. Crafting doesn't sucks enought I guess.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    I was trying to make some decent arms tonight.  Since I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers.

    I decided to try out Structural and Fundamental:
    Both started with 50 Durability.


    Neither have More Powerful reforges than the others I did.  The first one only has one stat at max.

    Pretty useless to do Structural since you can not powder the item and it is NOT more powerful.
    The Durability is lower than the starting item.

    Fundamental does not significantly increase the power of the Reforge. Integral gave the item more durability but it is only 135.  You can get 6 properties with 2 being ridiculously low without the punishment.
    temp.bmp 132.4K
  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    edited September 27
    Pawain said:
    I was trying to make some decent arms tonight.  Since I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers.

    I decided to try out Structural and Fundamental:
    Both started with 50 Durability.


    Neither have More Powerful reforges than the others I did.  The first one only has one stat at max.

    Pretty useless to do Structural since you can not powder the item and it is NOT more powerful.
    The Durability is lower than the starting item.

    Fundamental does not significantly increase the power of the Reforge. Integral gave the item more durability but it is only 135.  You can get 6 properties with 2 being ridiculously low without the punishment.
    The problem is not with amount properties, problem is: even if ur base item have more then 35 durability, after adding brittle, ur base drop to 35 after reforging, i made example when i craft 100+ durability shield and after reforging it drop to 35, and ther is 0 info about brittle act like this. Bcz we see all random magic items with brittle on it 255/255 durability and not on base 35/35 values.
    - So my request is: give us option to not lose base durability after we add brittle on reforging.
    OR, let us POF before reforging so we can gamble on such item to have chance get 255/255 durability. 
     @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak @Misk
  • Pawain said:
    I was trying to make some decent arms tonight.  Since I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers.

    Pretty useless to do Structural since you can not powder the item and it is NOT more powerful.
    The Durability is lower than the starting item.

    You just need to do it a few thousand more times, like the youtube video makes clear...
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    @Garret ; Yes the durability is the issue, but if you do not get more powerful properties when you make an item that can not be repaired, why would you do it even if it went to 255.

    If you do 6 charge reforges and they are just as powerful as the Brittle or non repairable why would you even do the ones with negatives.  The 6 charge ones will last forever.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited September 28
    The reasons for using the negatives appear to at least be 2 fold:
    1. Upgrade a tool to the next most powerful tool, in terms of produced intensities.
    2. Upgrade the number of mods that can be placed on the item.  e.g. 6 added mods instead of 5.
    The larger / more practical issue is "I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers".  The youtube video, the person was at it apparently for months.

    Here's a 9 charge heartwood tool use, and it's one of many such.

  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    edited September 28
    The reasons for using the negatives appear to at least be 2 fold:
    1. Upgrade a tool to the next most powerful tool, in terms of produced intensities.
    2. Upgrade the number of mods that can be placed on the item.  e.g. 6 added mods instead of 5.
    The larger / more practical issue is "I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers".  The youtube video, the person was at it apparently for months.

    Here's a 9 charge heartwood tool use, and it's one of many such.

    I was using a barbed kit. You can get 6 properties without going to brittle.

    So using Brittle and can not be repaired does not give you more mods than without.



    Again, why would we use extra charges and have two negatives?  That above piece rolled each stat separately, it has the same change to max them all as the one that cost more charges.

    The double negative piece starts each stat at the same value in its RNG.  Significantly more powerful should never get the minimum values.

    Maybe you think the Runic Bonus page is the maximum stats with reforging.  It is not. That is for crafting.

    I am not familiar with shield reforging but I think your shield got only 4 properties.  So the two negatives gave it nothing extra.

  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    Pawain said:
    The reasons for using the negatives appear to at least be 2 fold:
    1. Upgrade a tool to the next most powerful tool, in terms of produced intensities.
    2. Upgrade the number of mods that can be placed on the item.  e.g. 6 added mods instead of 5.
    The larger / more practical issue is "I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers".  The youtube video, the person was at it apparently for months.

    Here's a 9 charge heartwood tool use, and it's one of many such.

    I was using a barbed kit. You can get 6 properties without going to brittle.

    So using Brittle and can not be repaired does not give you more mods than without.



    Again, why would we use extra charges and have two negatives?  That above piece rolled each stat separately, it has the same change to max them all as the one that cost more charges.

    The double negative piece starts each stat at the same value in its RNG.  Significantly more powerful should never get the minimum values.

    Maybe you think the Runic Bonus page is the maximum stats with reforging.  It is not. That is for crafting.

    I am not familiar with shield reforging but I think your shield got only 4 properties.  So the two negatives gave it nothing extra.

    U got item almost identical to what u can get from imbuing, in my case i use all this mods for reforging, to get 2-3 overcaped etensity stats, u will not get more then 1 overcaped stat with normal reforging.

    P.S. But one more time! This thread about durability and how it act with reforging! i know we all wish have better crafting options! but plz ! atleast durability!  @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak @Misk
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited September 28
    Pawain said:

    I was using a barbed kit. You can get 6 properties without going to brittle.

    So using Brittle and can not be repaired does not give you more mods than without.



    Again, why would we use extra charges and have two negatives?  That above piece rolled each stat separately, it has the same change to max them all as the one that cost more charges.

    The double negative piece starts each stat at the same value in its RNG.  Significantly more powerful should never get the minimum values.

    Maybe you think the Runic Bonus page is the maximum stats with reforging.  It is not. That is for crafting.



    @Pawain,. lookup Semmerset Re-forging Charts.  Notice that you can get luck 150/170 with OAK if you use these negatives.  You can't get luck 150/170 using OAK otherwise.  The tool is effectively "upgraded" in the intensities it [can] provide.

    The intensity upper range primarily appears to be affected by using the negatives.  e.g. you do seem to see more luck 150 items than luck 100, for instance.

    The shield it junk, you get many not far off from that, and illustrates why the system needs adjustment / more control options.

    The improvements I mentioned are still governed by what appears to be RNG probabilities.  (intensities and number of mods).  Yes, you can still get the 6 mods, but it appears to happen less often without the negatives.

    The sleeves you point out also illustrate another generic problem -- those sleeves come under the 500 max imbuing weight.  Wouldn't it be nice to imbue some of those properties up more?  Well, you can't because there are 6 mods.

    Garrets' point about the durability handling is valid, but it'd be a shame just to "fix" that and ignore the other issues at play.  If we have the developers attention...

    Some obvious possible changes:
    • Allow the number of mods to be specified during re-forge.
    • Remove the imbuing mod cap of 5.
    • Address the durability issue.
    • Another discussion thread covers other points.

  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    edited September 28
    @ForeverFun ; I don't know what you mean about shields.  But I have a reforged and enhanced metal shield that has 190 Luck.  It is not brittle.
    There are reforged wooden lesser shields with 150 Luck on Atlantic Vendor search.  They are not Brittle.  I saw no brittle reforges that got more luck. Players are not doing it, even for an Item to swap right before a Mobs death where they would last a long time with 35 with repair ability or 133 durability when just using for a few seconds.

    Also Luck is not the only thing that should get higher than normal caps.

    Yes the Durability is a huge issue, But if we can not get more powerful items by using Structural and Fortified why would we bother to use those.  A chance at getting the same amount of properties as you can without out using those is not a benefit.  

    First they need to make Structural, Fortified and Fundamental actually have more magical power or Significantly more magical power until then, there is no reason to use those two even if Durability were 255?

    If they fix both then that would also be fine.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited September 28
    Pawain said:
    @ ForeverFun  I don't know what you mean about shields.  But I have a reforged and enhanced metal shield that has 190 Luck.  It is not brittle.
    There are reforged wooden lesser shields with 150 Luck on Atlantic Vendor search.  They are not Brittle.  I saw no brittle reforges that got more luck. Players are not doing it, even for an Item to swap right before a Mobs death where they would last a long time with 35 with repair ability or 133 durability when just using for a few seconds.

    Also Luck is not the only thing that should get higher than normal caps.

    Yes the Durability is a huge issue, But if we can not get more powerful items by using Structural and Fortified why would we bother to use those.  A chance at getting the same amount of properties as you can without out using those is not a benefit.  

    First they need to make Structural, Fortified and Fundamental actually have more magical power or Significantly more magical power until then, there is no reason to use those two even if Durability were 255?

    If they fix both then that would also be fine.
    Shields are just an example;  Garret used a wooden shield as one of his examples.  You said "I did a bazillion reforges and got no keepers."  The point is you can burn through tons of charges of very expensive runics, and end up with junk.  Doesn't make much sense.  As the youtube video shows, it's not a fun grind.  Have you watched that video I linked earlier?  What are your thoughts on it?

    Several people who responded to this thread said "don't use those negative options", myself included.  You asked why you'd use those options, and you can indeed do things with the negatives that you can't without using negatives.  OAK high luck being one example, avoiding generally undesirable reforge mods like +durability and self repair being another example.  There are other cases in the semmerset reforge tables beyond luck -- checkout the table!

    Most people indeed just shoot for 150 luck reforges without using the negatives.  ATL vendor search is littered with these examples, as you note.  That was covered in advice to Garret earlier.   This does lead to a very limited usage pattern of crafting, which many say is inferior compared to legendary loot. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    edited September 29
    No the OP kinda got mad at someone earlier because he specifically made the thread about the Durability issue.   So Ill stop with wanting those two negative properties to make better stuff also.

    (on a side note: I burned thru a ton of 90 charge shadow runics trying to make a 100% cold weapon.  I ended up stopping at an 80% and enhanced it with shadow. Also saved me some PoF since it gave 50 durabilty.  I got a 70 fire and a 70 Poison.  Was not a good night for RNG. WTH did PoF go up so much.)
  • GarretGarret Posts: 40
    Pawain said:
    No the OP kinda got mad at someone earlier because he specifically made the thread about the Durability issue.   So Ill stop with wanting those two negative properties to make better stuff also.

    (on a side note: I burned thru a ton of 90 charge shadow runics trying to make a 100% cold weapon.  I ended up stopping at an 80% and enhanced it with shadow. Also saved me some PoF since it gave 50 durabilty.  I got a 70 fire and a 70 Poison.  Was not a good night for RNG. WTH did PoF go up so much.)
    As I thought it would happen. I found a fairly simple bug, I reported it, everyone was surprised, happy, quickly fixed the brittle on crafted items, and then we can discuss changes in crafting and improving the life of crafters. I did not expect that the most important part of the forum, the feeling that they simply ignore, or deliberately do not give an answer? Don't feel like I'm not thankful for helping keep the topic at its peak, I'm surprised it's the biggest topic for the next couple of pages. Thank every one! and of course I really want to hear simple answer from the developers:"Yes, we will check it", "Yes, it will be fixed in the next update", "No, we have no plans to make changes to the crafting system" is it difficult? I'm not being rude, I'm just surprised.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 704
    edited September 29
    "Garret, you posted this bug in Aug 2021, there are bugs in this forum from 2018 that have not yet been acknowledged"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    This issue is more of a QA issue.  Obviously no developer Reforged any item that used those last 2 categories to see how useless and not powerful they are.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited September 29
    Pawain said:
    This issue is more of a QA issue.  Obviously no developer Reforged any item that used those last 2 categories to see how useless and not powerful they are.
    The issues raised here go well beyond the "last 2 categories".

    QA and others can watch this video.  It doesn't even use the "last 2 categories".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQI2WKsR_Co

    It's easy to observe even more expensive runics than used in that video produce nothing but junk, without the "last 2 categories".

    I don't know what the policy is for responding / acknowledging bugs -- Yoshi's point.  Maybe we can get some clarification on that?

    There is also a bulleted list of suggested actions/improvements, any insights into that?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    I see where you are coming from but I just figure that it was designed to take forever to make a nice piece.  Part of the stupid risk vs reward.

    That stupid anvil is completely useless for reforging. 10 charges is a joke.

    OR

    If they thought 10 charges would make at least 1 sweet piece, Reforging is broken!
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