Players are being driven out of PvP.

CookieCookie Posts: 910
edited January 29 in PvP / VvV

By the amount of Macros in and speed of Enhanced Client v Classic, By the new(ish) Orion Classic Client with its new "features" {and scripts}, and to a smaller extent Enhanced Razor for Classic Client and its "features" {and scripts}.

It has been bearable for quite a long while as not so many used them, but now, too many are using them, and making it unplayable for the rest.

@kyronix and @bleak - there are 2 solutions, please enact one.

1. Disable all of these clients from pvp, approved and unapproved clients, they all ruin it or;

2. Bring Classic Client, the original and main PvP client up to their level, by including their features in the game please.

Most players enjoy Classic Client far more for pvp, and it is now hitting critical mass in terms of imbalance. The fun is just going fast.

Please do something about it. If you start losing pvpers, you will lose a lot of the game.

Thank you.

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Comments

  • XrisXris Posts: 128
    Cookie said:

    By the amount of Macros in and speed of Enhanced Client v Classic, By the new(ish) Orion Classic Client with its new "features" {and scripts}, and to a smaller extent Enhanced Razor for Classic Client and its "features" {and scripts}.

    It has been bearable for quite a long while as not so many used them, but now, too many are using them, and making it unplayable for the rest.

    @ kyronix and @ bleak - there are 2 solutions, please enact one.

    1. Disable all of these clients from pvp, approved and unapproved clients, they all ruin it or;

    2. Bring Classic Client, the original and main PvP client up to their level, by including their features in the game please.

    Most players enjoy Classic Client far more for pvp, and it is now hitting critical mass in terms of imbalance. The fun is just going fast.

    Please do something about it. If you start losing pvpers, you will lose a lot of the game.

    Thank you.

    +1000

  • TailTail Posts: 63
    Speaking FACTS!
  • AniAni Posts: 17
    100% agreed, make pvp great again
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 467
    Agreed.

    I prefer # 1.

    My reason:: # 2. is closer to the game playing itself rather than the player playing the game.  this is the problem with UO pvp now, far outweighs any 'in-game' balancing issues to date.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    CovenantX said:
    Agreed.

    I prefer # 1.

    My reason:: # 2. is closer to the game playing itself rather than the player playing the game.  this is the problem with UO pvp now, far outweighs any 'in-game' balancing issues to date.


    Option 1 was my hardcore option. :)

    I fully agree with you, but it's a bit like when I say, delete Trammel, delete Sampires - ultimately yes it's the best thing for the game, but they are never going to do it.

  • TjalleTjalle Posts: 56
    I agree.
    Something needs to be done. The inaction on cheats is such a taint on the game.
  • Acid_RainAcid_Rain Posts: 201
    Cookie said:

    Please do something about it. If you start losing pvpers, you will lose a lot of the game.

    Thank you.

    Lost me 2 yrs ago. Got tired of waiting for the “soon” to be released updated list of approved programs and no action taken on those that chose to use unapproved programs. Plenty of games much more balanced out there... so I now play them. 

    I’d love to come back but sadly not in the games current state. 
  • The team is completely lost on this since they dont play the game.  You can literally pick any video or screenshot out of any discord and they are all 100% illegal gameplay.  You may ask yourself why they need such cheats?  Its simple they are horrid players without it.  You could say they have the timing of a guy who walks into a funeral while cranking AC/DC Highway to hell.  LOL
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 197
    I agree 100% with everything in this post
  • I disagree with the points about the EC, I do agree with the rest,
  • DrakelordDrakelord Posts: 1,420
    Cookie said:

    I fully agree with you, but it's a bit like when I say, delete Trammel, 

    Siege is the place for thee
    Remove Trap = Bad News
    for
    Treasure Hunters
    Drakelord#5598
  • LynkLynk Posts: 166
    Stock classic client is unplayable at 14 FPS.  EC has a built in scripting engine.  99.9% of the player base doesn't understand this and exactly what is really possible with the LUA script engine in EC.  Yes, it can do anything these other clients you guys complain about can do. People have already done it, they just don't share it.

    People in here complaining about other clients have literally posted screenshots of themselves using the alternate clients in various discords.  

    You want to make the default CC normalized?

    If you don't have the labor force to actually do the needed work, capitalize on the hard work other people have done:

    1.) All of the third party client options have toolsets built in for server admins to enable/disable certain features offered.  Take advantage and just do the client/server 'handshake' and set the terms.

    If you have the man hours to put towards it, make changes to the existing client and then completely block the use of the other clients.

    1.) Modify the client to allow up to 144 FPS.

    2.) Provide a built in scripting engine.  The ability to bind pots to hotkey was about the least you could possibly do.  Increase the options for user defined object use (by type, graphic, color, etc).  No one is asking for insane options, just the ability to bind consumeables and objects to keys.

    3.) Build in the EC movement into your classic client, the part where you slingshot around an impassable object.  Right now EC moves instantly to the diagonal, where CC has to go to the adjacent tile, then forward one tile.  


  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    @Lynk where are you getting this 14 fps from?
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 211
    Or let's say they worked with one, or two of these developers, and came out with another option. So you wouldn't have to dislike these programs, and instead reap the benefits of them, such as being able to set more than four weapon macros, I personally use, probably ten different bows. The programs you speak of don't have to be used for nefarious reasons I personally know many crafters who would have clicked their lives away without some form of program.
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 211
    Cookie said:

    By the amount of Macros in and speed of Enhanced Client v Classic, By the new(ish) Orion Classic Client with its new "features" {and scripts}, and to a smaller extent Enhanced Razor for Classic Client and its "features" {and scripts}.

    It has been bearable for quite a long while as not so many used them, but now, too many are using them, and making it unplayable for the rest.

    @ kyronix and @ bleak - there are 2 solutions, please enact one.

    1. Disable all of these clients from pvp, approved and unapproved clients, they all ruin it or;

    2. Bring Classic Client, the original and main PvP client up to their level, by including their features in the game please.

    Most players enjoy Classic Client far more for pvp, and it is now hitting critical mass in terms of imbalance. The fun is just going fast.

    Please do something about it. If you start losing pvpers, you will lose a lot of the game.

    Thank you.

     Other than people wall scripting, I really don't see much by way of cheating. That's annoying. Maybe the instant apple and cure, but that instant apple will get them killed by a smart opponent. What are people doing to drive you away? I'm just curious, not trying to imply it doesn't happen. I get that in ec, you don't rubber band off of stairs. Or so I'm told idk I dislike ec and they really are much faster.
  • sibblesibble Posts: 79
    I've spoken to many people who still play in CC and refuse to play in EC.  Almost 100% of the time the reason is "we don't like how it looks"

    If you can't bring CC up to EC in terms of features, then give EC users an option to change the game to look like CC - meaning CC textures and player character designs into EC.

    Would that not satisfy every CC player and convince them to switch to using EC only?
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    sibble said:
    I've spoken to many people who still play in CC and refuse to play in EC.  Almost 100% of the time the reason is "we don't like how it looks"

    If you can't bring CC up to EC in terms of features, then give EC users an option to change the game to look like CC - meaning CC textures and player character designs into EC.

    Would that not satisfy every CC player and convince them to switch to using EC only?
    This has been asked ever since the EC came out and the silence is deafening
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 211
    its not just the way it looks its the whole set up unless you made it ec that looks like ec and has the same functions no way
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    LMAO  It is all about the way it looks, maybe you should read  EC (Enhanced Client) with the option to use Classic Graphics
  • MarcusMarcus Posts: 9
    There is nothing good about the Enhanced Client.  You notice the dev team in their new legacy slideshow didn't use the enhanced client? Because even they know it's garbage.

    Just say no to Enhanced Client.
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 327Moderator
    There is no point in turning this thread into a debate on Classic vs Enhanced client.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    It is just a classic example of the way the player base is, it is %100 their way or it is totally broken and unfixable.  If as the OP says that EVERYBODY is being driven out of what they now call PvP then why the hell is it still going on Atl.  Nobody is being driven out of PvP and I always thought that the reason everybody gave for the CC is because they were using cheat programs for PvP and that the EC could not be scripted but isn't that the OPs main point is that the EC IS being scripted and the only way the CC users can keep up is to cheat and use 3rd party programs.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited April 4

    As an update - the 3 fixes to Bane Dragons appear to have helped a bit.

    I know a lot of pvpers, and I know so many who have quit, taking a break etc etc.

    1. Atlantic is still going strong, because it is sucking up the few remaining pvpers from every shard, Europa took a hit again from this.

    2. Many of the pvpers remaining are said pvpers… It's becoming a run down to who can use the most programs, aside from EC users, who are the reason everyone else feels they have to.

    Ultimately, the real problem is, the use of 2 clients in PvP. EC users should really have been put in their own pvp environment, and CC users in a separate one. Maybe. End of the day, EC runs, plays, feels, looks like a different game to UO.

    The players being lost, are Classic Client users, who are the core of UO pvp. A lot of us have re-adapted again, which is what we do, so maybe we still continue ok - as I say, with the fixes to Banes, all the scripted bugged Bane users have vanished, taking some of the inbalance away.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited April 4

    Bilbo, with respect, I don't think you know what you are talking about on this one.

    My point with EC, is it is naturally faster, with so much more in the way of macros etc - I am not saying they are cheating, but they are "forcing" many CC users to use 3rd party programs, to match the EC ability.

    However, Orion client has now come out, a new(ish) CC client (It's gaining traction now in that it is gaining wide-spread usage), which is now better than EC - in terms of looks, feel, abilities and speed, so now the EC users are complaining as well, they are now feeling what it was like to have been a CC user all this time. HOWEVER! The original CC users are screwed every direction. :)

  • sibblesibble Posts: 79
    edited April 5
    Cookie said:

    My point with EC, is it is naturally faster

    I'm not adding to a "which client is better" debate. I'm addressing misleading information that was posted.

    First off... what exactly do you mean by "faster" - if you're talking about framerate, then yes you can get a faster framerate by switching from a regular classic client to a 3rd party classic client.  If you're stating EC users can run faster than CC users, then that would be a false statement.

    Secondly, comparing EC to the 3rd party classic client you're referring to as to which one is "better in terms of looks, feel, abilities and speed", is mostly a matter of opinion.  Again with the speed, I'm not sure what speed you're referring to but the server is going to process packets at the same rate it processes packets from any other client.

    Lastly, what EC users are complaining about a 3rd party CC client?  I feel like you're just pulling this information from nowhere to help argue a point.  I haven't seen 1 EC user ever complain about and 3rd party classic client except for scripting automation which is out of the scope of this discussion.

    Why you may think EC is faster
    In CC, have you ever tried holding the right mouse button and circling around your character?  I'm talking about making your character standstill on 1 tile and spin around in circles.

    Try the same thing in EC.  You'll notice you're completely unable to replicate what happens in CC.  Your character in EC will actually run in a circle.  I believe it's because there are extra character-turning animations in EC but I can't 100% confirm.

    What I do know is, if your running and make a cut in CC your character doesn't turn fluidly.  In EC running and turning is very fluid and there is no pause to turn.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited April 5

    @sibble - Do you even pvp?

    If you did, you would know what I'm talking about.

    I'm not being sucked into a debate with another @popps kind of pvm guy, who knows nothing about the topic, then just wants to get into a semantics debate for the sheer hell of it.

    I'm not going to discuss the semantics of how it happens, to the exact nth degree - and whether I have used the correct wording or not, the point is, it adds up to being faster when it counts. Yes it's exactly to do with what you said in your final paragraph. It also casts spells way faster.

  • poppspopps Posts: 2,522
    Cookie said:

    @ sibble - Do you even pvp?

    If you did, you would know what I'm talking about.

    I'm not being sucked into a debate with another @ popps kind of pvm guy, who knows nothing about the topic, then just wants to get into a semantics debate for the sheer hell of it.

    I'm not going to discuss the semantics of how it happens, to the exact nth degree - and whether I have used the correct wording or not, the point is, it adds up to being faster when it counts. Yes it's exactly to do with what you said in your final paragraph. It also casts spells way faster.

    Well, one would imagine that, if the interest was that to help PvP "gain" consensus (and players), then, the point of view of PvMers who do not find enjoyment in PvP as it is now, could be interesting and helpful....

    Othewise, PvP would remain a "niche" gameplay, only interesting to "hard core" players....

    Sure, it is a possibility, but not one that would be "financially rewarding"..... or, at least, not as much as it could be, if "more" players were to be gained from PvMers to try out PvP....

    Unfortunately, though, it looks like that to PvPers, it is either "hard core", anything goes, or no PvP...

    If they like it that way, with only a few players then wanting to get into it.... well, that's OK, I guess, what I do not understand though, is how it could then be interesting to Game Developers and Game Publishers.... I mean, it is a business after all and, if there is not enough players to pay the bills in PvP, I am not sure how it could interest much the Game Industry....

    Infact, what usually ends up, at least to my understanding, is seeing for the same game, PvM Servers to get a lot of players who bring in the revenues, and then a PvP server that does not bring as many revenues, perhaps might even be at a loss, financially speaking, but is covered by the revenues brought by PvMers...

    The problem is, though, that this way. to my opinion, the "divide" between PvMers and PvPers then remains, each one playing on their own server, and things never change.... and PvP never gains a wider audience of players...

    Perhaps, if PvP changed in the way it handled players, being less "hardcore" and more "fair" fighting, more players might get to it, who knows.....

    That is at least the way I see it.

  • Max_BlackoakMax_Blackoak Posts: 569
    @Cookie now you've done it!

    On the topic of EC casting faster than CC: that only applies to very specific circumstances with preset targeting. Without preset targets EC is actually slower than CC. There was a stratics thread with video evidence of the difference in casting speed between the 2 clients - I'll post it if I can dig it up.
    So it's not like EC have ALL the advantage and CC has none. It is very situational.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited April 6

    Ill take your point @max_blackoak and yes I'd be interested to see.

    Yes, my point, was start to finish re casting on a specific target, not just one specific bit.

    Again, yes I was generalising, on the understanding most people knew why, and the nitty gritty, I didn't want to be involved in another debate where all we are doing is arguing for hours over the precise definition of words.

    And @popps - truthfully I don't need your opinion, there are very few people I will/need to listen to when it comes to PvP :) I'm in a large active guild, and I pvp and pvm non-stop. We introduce so many new players to the game and pvp, that I know what they are all thinking - they tell me on a daily basis, and how they find it, I've been there myself, I feel it every day. It isn't easy I agree, there is so much that could be improved, but there are ways of introducing players to pvp in a positive way, I have brought my 2 sons into the game, and they are doing very well and loving it, but they had a whole guild behind them. I understand exactly how difficult it all is, and you will usually see me trying hard to improve the game for the newer players, not the elite.

    @popps - my lack of patience actually is not at you, it's other so called pvpers who post about pvp in the way you do on certain topics, but I was using you as an example, I apologise for bringing you in like that. :)

  • sibblesibble Posts: 79
    edited April 6
    Cookie said:

    @ sibble - Do you even pvp?

    If you did, you would know what I'm talking about.

     It also casts spells way faster.

    Ya, I've been PVPing with EC since about 2010, prior to many people even touching the client (including PVMers).  So I'd say I have plenty of experience...

    As long as you continue to post misinformation about EC I will continue to correct you.  No, EC does not "cast spells way faster".  EC allows you to send a target with your spell cast at the same time, saving the time it takes a CC user to pick their target and send it to the server.

    Example:  My EC Greater Heal macro that has Greater Heal set to target my current target, if I hit it, I'm sending information to the server "cast greater heal and put it on this target" all in one packet.  In CC you don't have this option.  In CC, you tell the server "cast greater heal" and then "target something".

    Maybe they would add this feature to CC if it was requested.  Instead, what everyone likes to do is cry about something EC has that CC doesn't and demand it be removed instead of requesting a way for it to be added to CC - much like how they implemented outfit switching in CC.

    This isn't about semantics or misuse of words.

    This is about your request for a change based on your misinformation.

    You've posted misinformation about EC, made assumptions about the client, and assumptions about me.  There is no indication in this thread that would lead me to believe that you or anyone you know have used EC for PVP.
This discussion has been closed.