Is there are reason...

...why posters are allowed to freely troll and attack another poster every time he makes a post?

The most recent example would be: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8069/stable-slots-increase-why-there-is-a-limit-to-purchase-only-7#latest

In here he raises a concern that he would like to see addressed. Immediately he is met with posters attacking him simply because they do not agree with him. Trolling him while at the same time calling him the troll. It´s become a trend of bullying in his threads.
IMO, he made a good point, a point that was also discussed when the tokens were released. I´m one of those who is affected because of this stable limit.
And the sad part is, those against him didn´t have any arguments that held water. All they had was misinformation, opinions and disagreements.

Next time, instead of locking a thread, please clean up the posts from the real trolls. I would´ve loved to add my two cents to that discussion but now I can´t...

Comments

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,834
    this thread sure to be locked as well but IMO when someone post lengthy statements disguised as questions then refutes any and every argument that doesn't align with their views... people are sure to get frustrated 
  • KhyroKhyro Posts: 206
    edited January 27
    I agree 100% here and it is becoming very toxic to these forums. It is the same handful of people that jump into any thread made by "that person" and instantly attack them, tell them to "get good", "just make a sampire", and instantly dismiss any complaint, question, or suggestion they have, while offering zero constructive or useful information to the thread.

    Are they long-winded in their posts? Yes. Do they seem to need/want a specific answer to their concerns? Yes. Not that they need to hear 'Yes we will do that', but rather they seem to need an actual explanation as to why certain things exist in their current state, and not just a "that's how it is, deal with it" answer. Which is perfectly fair to want to get, even if unlikely to happen for most questions.

    Do they deserve the hatred, toxicity, personal attacks, insults, and other vitriol tossed at them? No.

    In my opinion this is a complete failure of the moderation team, and I don't say that lightly as I agree with most decisions made by the Moderators.

    These threads should be purged of the hatred and toxic comments and kept on track. The most recent topic of increased stable slots is extremely valid and has been brought up before on other forums (where it was not met with any of the disdain it was in the thread posted here). It is a fair topic that warrants discussion for those that are interested in it.

    The amount of hypocrisy present in that thread was unbelievable. You had responses saying to stop speaking for the player base, while simultaneously those same commenters were speaking "for the player base" in claiming that no one wants more stable slots. 

    The far reaching "rebuttals" to the request for more stable slots were just as laughably absurd -- "EA will lose money because people will close accounts if they can get more stable slots on a character!" and "You don't need more than 42 pets!" (who is speaking for others again?).

    If someone wants to have 42 critters in their stables with fun names and bring them out for roleplay purposes, or stable many different types or colors of pets, how does that affect you? It doesn't. Stop pretending it does. You do not get to dictate another player's playstyle, just like others don't get to dictate yours.

    "Just make a Sampire" is not (and should not) be the answer to valid criticism of "class" balance in UO. "Just get good" is a toxic comment and trolling and serves no point other than to insult the person being responded to. They very well may have had valid criticism over the Paragon design in the Dynamic Treasures content, but it was immediately dismissed as "Trolling" simply because it was posted by a specific person and the mob mentality jumped on the bandwagon of attacking them, leading to no fruitful discussion.
    https://www.uo-cah.com
    Home of the Pet Intensity Calculator, Pet Planner, Trainable Animal Bestiary, and other Tools, Guides, and Information. 

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 678
    IBTL
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited January 27
    Nope, others like me now can't add to comments made by others.  If you didn't agree with popps could just say I don't agree and then why, I agree every time he posts the forum trolls will disagree with whatever he says, all the time, EVERY  time.

      All these demands for him to 'prove' he needed stable slots were just trolling.   

    Not a single person in that thread could give ONE legitimate reason for there being a cap.  Mainly as there NEVER has been a legitimate reason. 

    42 slots was an Arbitrary figure created from thin air. 

    The only argument you ever 'see' is that people will open more accounts to have more tamers so they  can get more pets.  But that is spurious at best.   If that was the 'reason' there was a limit on a tamers fighting 'tools' ie pets why is there no limit on someones bows or other weapons?   It is just utter rubbish.  It is because the mechanic for storing pets is one they could limit and then rook tamers for to generate income, as opposed to the mechanic for storing bows.  But guess what, that mechanic is also totally arbitrary.

    They could allow people to have 2 stables or 3 stables or make the stable the same as any other container,  just as they allow people to have 200 chests to store other 'tools'. 

    I have never understood the attitude of anyone trying to LIMIT another player from doing what they want when it does NOT have ONE effect on their gameplay. 

    Please, tell me exactly how many pets I have in my stables across the 6 tamers I have?  C'mon it affects you so much you should be able to give me an accurate count.  If you can't then you really have zero basis to complain.

    How I play has nothing to do with ANYONE else.  Those saying I don't 'need' to do this or that are full of crap.  


    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    Khyro said:
    I agree 100% here and it is becoming very toxic to these forums. It is the same handful of people that jump into any thread made by "that person" and instantly attack them, tell them to "get good", "just make a sampire", and instantly dismiss any complaint, question, or suggestion they have, while offering zero constructive or useful information to the thread.

    Are they long-winded in their posts? Yes. Do they seem to need/want a specific answer to their concerns? Yes. Not that they need to hear 'Yes we will do that', but rather they seem to need an actual explanation as to why certain things exist in their current state, and not just a "that's how it is, deal with it" answer. Which is perfectly fair to want to get, even if unlikely to happen for most questions.

    Do they deserve the hatred, toxicity, personal attacks, insults, and other vitriol tossed at them? No.

    In my opinion this is a complete failure of the moderation team, and I don't say that lightly as I agree with most decisions made by the Moderators.

    These threads should be purged of the hatred and toxic comments and kept on track. The most recent topic of increased stable slots is extremely valid and has been brought up before on other forums (where it was not met with any of the disdain it was in the thread posted here). It is a fair topic that warrants discussion for those that are interested in it.

    The amount of hypocrisy present in that thread was unbelievable. You had responses saying to stop speaking for the player base, while simultaneously those same commenters were speaking "for the player base" in claiming that no one wants more stable slots. 

    The far reaching "rebuttals" to the request for more stable slots were just as laughably absurd -- "EA will lose money because people will close accounts if they can get more stable slots on a character!" and "You don't need more than 42 pets!" (who is speaking for others again?).

    If someone wants to have 42 critters in their stables with fun names and bring them out for roleplay purposes, or stable many different types or colors of pets, how does that affect you? It doesn't. Stop pretending it does. You do not get to dictate another player's playstyle, just like others don't get to dictate yours.

    "Just make a Sampire" is not (and should not) be the answer to valid criticism of "class" balance in UO. "Just get good" is a toxic comment and trolling and serves no point other than to insult the person being responded to. They very well may have had valid criticism over the Paragon design in the Dynamic Treasures content, but it was immediately dismissed as "Trolling" simply because it was posted by a specific person and the mob mentality jumped on the bandwagon of attacking them, leading to no fruitful discussion.

    Amen to all of that.  

    Agree 100% yet the trolls will also now start in this one.

    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 312
    Two things:

    A poster in the previous thread said people had to respond to popps as if the dev team would change everything to suit him alone. This is obviously not in any way true.

    Second, as was said back during either the Deceit or Ice threads, every single thread involving popps seems to turn into ad hominem attacks. It's really noticeable and ugly. Just move on. Or, instead of going on in such negative, obsessive ways, talk about the things you'd also be interested in seeing improved.
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 416
    The problem with his posts is this, he will think or some desperately random problem, expect mesanna to drop everything and sort it to suit him.  When other players offer advise or a different point of view he will ignore that or debate it to death as if he has any authority.

    it is also clear that he dose not have any knowledge of what he is debating or he is actually talking as if he represents other players. This is where others argue against him

    simple fact from previous threads

    he does not have a sampire, and will not train one no matter how many people offer help

    he is not a competent tamer 
    he cannot deal with patagons

    so, he just tries over and over again to have things changed to suit him

    he does not speak for others, and certainly not me.

    why do I argue with him?
    because I have a tamer and a sampire and most of my gameplay is spent on there chars 

    I confess I do not PVP, I am no good at it, I do have necromages, spellweavers, bards and mystic mages etc, I don’t use them often, but what I certainly do NOT do is post about them as they are not my priority and do not want to affect the gameplay of those that do.

    this is where the main problem lies, you HAVE to try and get through to him, because as we have seen in the past, the dev team sometimes listen and nerf the crap out of things and ruin gameplay of those that use the templates because of other peoples whining or ignorance.

    look at treasure hunting and idocers, I am not going to start a war on these issues, but just look what happened.  T hunters with years of knowledge were ignored and the 2 maps a week experts were listened to and not the experience and loot has changed badly and it seems mesanna is not interested in listening.

    I for one can have this happen to sampires and tamers just because I individual, cannot or won’t listen and adapt to suit the game.

    this is why I dread every post he creates, I am dreading the next one he will be looking for right now. 
    If he spent more time in game and less looking for things to ask endless questions about, with no interest in a solution, we would all benefit
    this is a game, this is MY escape from reality, I hate drama here, but my game play is in real danger of being nerfed just because this individual cannot adapt as the game evolves, for good or for bad....
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited January 28
    NO you don't.  You read what he says, (or skim it as I tend to do) don't agree and just move on and ignore it, or say what you think.  Post your opinion without trolling and attacking him.   If I disagree with what he says I may say so but then just say what I think.  You do NOT have to 'get through to him' that is an exercise in futility.  

    People do the same to me all the time.  I will post MY view on something without so much as referencing anyone else yet people on these forums then think it is OK to attack you for what you believe, put their 'words in your mouth' on what they 'think'  you are saying and it becomes toxic super quick.  Some even then feel the need to attack you on other forums as, I don't know, I guess they think their bits get bigger when they do.

    I really don't care what other people think, if I have a view I will post it. The problem is, and it is the same with Popps if people don't agree they don't just post what they believe, but start in on full on attacks on every point someone else has said like it is some kind of rip em to pieces bit.  

    Sadly I agree with Kyhro, Popps can't post anything now.   The trolls jump on him instantly and even though I may disagree with 80% of what he says he has every right to say it without the toxic ppl on here dumping on him in such a personal matter.

    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • VioletViolet Posts: 321
    he does not have a sampire, and will not train one no matter how many people offer help
    As has been previously mentioned, when discussing the dynamic content that is now going to be a standard, the argument of "Make a sampire" is not a valid answer.  If it is how a majority of new content is going to be delivered then "class" balance is actually relevant. 

    he is not a competent tamer 
    he cannot deal with patagons
    To quote you from another thread titled Paragon Spectral Armor:
    I don't care how you do it, but Devs's get rid of them bloody things.

    what stupid invincible crappy waste of time pieces of $$$ things! forget legendary parrying these have GODLY parrying.

    There, said it now, all better

    From all the paragon Spectral Armors I found all over Deceit left by Sampires, it looks like others have issues with paragons.  And if the time to kill vs reward given is the complaint, then that is a valid issue with Paragons.  A lot of people cannot deal with paragons and they hide them away in rooms or expect others to deal with them.  And again, in what will be standard new content "play a sampire" is not a valid or healthy answer for a game.  
    so, he just tries over and over again to have things changed to suit him

    he does not speak for others, and certainly not me.
    So tell me how him asking about stable tokens was so egregious? 

    Here is you asking for something, that would enhance YOUR gameplay:
    I find it really odd that people get so offended that I ask for shard shield to be in the store. This would enhance my gameplay immensely, and it wont hurt them at all.

    I just don't get why they are so opposed to the idea.
    So again, why was Popps asking about stable slot tokens so wrong?  It doesn't negatively affect anyone.

    For the record also, we asked at a prior meet and greet about the cap of stable slot tokens.  Mesanna said if a good reason could be given why more were needed, they could review it.


    why do I argue with him?

    this is where the main problem lies, you HAVE to try and get through to him, because as we have seen in the past, the dev team sometimes listen and nerf the crap out of things and ruin gameplay of those that use the templates because of other peoples whining or ignorance.
    YOU actually don't have to.  YOU and everyone else who jumps on him can just not respond, or respond saying you disagree and this is how you think it should be.  Personal attacks need not be part of the conversation.  The Dev's aren't in a vacuum.  I would guess they know quite a few of the posters, especially ones who comment as often as him. 


    I for one can have this happen to sampires and tamers just because I individual, cannot or won’t listen and adapt to suit the game.
    ....this is a game, this is MY escape from reality, I hate drama here, but my game play is in real danger of being nerfed just because this individual cannot adapt as the game evolves, for good or for bad....
    Your gameplay isnt protected from change, it must evolved just like you expect him to evolve.
    A good example is the thunting changes, sometimes systems need to be changed or updated to make the play experience more engaging:
    look at treasure hunting and idocers, I am not going to start a war on these issues, but just look what happened. T hunters with years of knowledge were ignored and the 2 maps a week experts were listened to and not the experience and loot has changed badly and it seems mesanna is not interested in listening.
    What kept the 2maps a week people from doing more maps?  While the "pro" thunters may have hated the change, I know a lot of thunters who loved the change. People had to adapt.

    I'm sure I could find examples of where you demanded Mesanna to take action on stuff, and I'm sure that stuff is important to you. I'm also sure you want your posts to be taken seriously.  So instead of outright dismissing someone's posts because of who they are, read them individually for their merit and either respond constructively or don't.  The people who respond to him with vitriol, it shows more negatively on them than it does him.

    Think of a new or returning player reading some of the responses and wondering what type of community this is.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited January 28

     I will agree people could calm down in their responses to him. He can even be ignored, or put in 1 response disagreeing and leave it at that. I do agree forums can develop a bad atmosphere, but what can be done? I'd possibly actually ban Popps, for his and the sake of the forums for a bit, or limit him to 1 concept a day.

    He is always polite, some of his ideas are ok.

    The problem is, he see's it as his life mission to flood the boards and some of his ideas are terrible and demonstrate no knowledge or experience at all, I think posters reach their limit rebutting all of his misinformed or terrible ideas, that it affects his odd good post. The fact that a few tamers are here backing him up, suggests he has asked one of his rare good questions.

    On that topic, do you really need more than 42 pets? And I'm sure a decent response could be given, like not overloading data in the game. And if you think about it - sure, 42 may be an arbitrary number, but why 7 characters, why 1 house, why X amount of storage, why 500 BODS in a BOD book, why 125 items in a chest? - you see how I could go on forever in this vein, and it's like a child constantly asking questions, it gets very wearing.

    There is a very real danger the Devs listen to him, they have listened to really bad advice before plenty of times from players like him - many of his posts are purely from his own bias, he does not care or know about other playstyles imo.

    Shard Bound.

    So there you go, I'm 50/50, I don't want to be toxic against him, but a lot of his posts are a problem and he does not see it, and cannot ever see anyone elses point of view.

  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,819Moderator
    Yes, I am going to lock this thread, but I have taken note of the points raised in it.
This discussion has been closed.