Underwhelming Announcement

Hate to say it but it seemed not so exciting of an announcement.  What I gathered from the live stream was this: We've basically put the production shards on autopilot with no plans of expansion or updating other than the occasional TOT type events while we spend the next year working on a project that will appeal to a small percentage of players. When? Soon.

Honestly I feel their pain, the dev's I mean. They get so much crap from us that they should at least be given an award for putting up with us. But honestly the "trailer" reminded me of UO2 with the dance battles. This, to me, was not something you hype up for 6 months then have a huge release announcement. I don't see it driving old players to come back to UO. If EJ didn't do it then perhaps they should have put more energy and money into putting the game in front of a lot more people. A Steam release might have done that. Maybe not.

I remember the old days of preordering the new expansion from my local game store. The excitement that brought. Especially when there was a new special item only available to those who put the money out. I have a teenager at home still and he buys into that hype. Why? Because it works.

UO has failed at a lot of things. But the one main thing that has been the biggest failure, in my opinion is not keeping up with what is going on in the gaming community for the last 20 years. Now given, I play UO because I invested a lot of time to create characters and build them. I like the 2d atmosphere. Newer games in 3d make me nauseous,  literally.  I started playing because it offered an unending world with no way to win.

Will UO last? Probably. Will it evolve? Probably not. You get to the point where there is nowhere left to go. No one asked my opinion but I am sharing it anyway. Is there a solution? Sure. Is it easy? Of course not. I would have started merging shards a long time ago. I would have brought it to 1 shard per US timezone. 1 shard per other country. And I would have found a way to strip down the code to create a classic server. Someone out there has the code for pre tram. Maybe it would have to be a stand alone client. But not having that pre tram option ran off a lot of supporters.

That is my $.02 worth. I will continue to play until they pull the plugs on the servers as will many others. Hopefully that is far in the future.
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Comments

  • GraceGrace Posts: 131
    I think it is a good idea to have this as a choice for new or returning players to be able to get a character developed without having to be overwhelmed/frustrated and quit easily.

    Am sure many people have logged in and quit because of the complexity, boring ways of
    training skills, and high cost of player goods on the regular shards. I have personally known
    several. 

    Underwhelming news for us established players? In the short run yes, in the long run no.
    This is a good direction for the long term health of the game in my opinion.

    But yes, vets do still need some interesting things on the regular shards and I have hopes they come through with that.  
  • This new shard isn't going to keep new or returning players. Especially new players who are used to modern games. You put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig. There are so many broken things in the game that we just put up with. New/returning players aren't going to deal with all that and the outdated clients.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,483
    edited September 2020
    Hate to say it but it seemed not so exciting of an announcement.  What I gathered from the live stream was this: We've basically put the production shards on autopilot with no plans of expansion or updating other than the occasional TOT type events while we spend the next year working on a project that will appeal to a small percentage of players. When? Soon.

    Honestly I feel their pain, the dev's I mean. They get so much crap from us that they should at least be given an award for putting up with us. But honestly the "trailer" reminded me of UO2 with the dance battles. This, to me, was not something you hype up for 6 months then have a huge release announcement. I don't see it driving old players to come back to UO. If EJ didn't do it then perhaps they should have put more energy and money into putting the game in front of a lot more people. A Steam release might have done that. Maybe not.

    I remember the old days of preordering the new expansion from my local game store. The excitement that brought. Especially when there was a new special item only available to those who put the money out. I have a teenager at home still and he buys into that hype. Why? Because it works.

    UO has failed at a lot of things. But the one main thing that has been the biggest failure, in my opinion is not keeping up with what is going on in the gaming community for the last 20 years. Now given, I play UO because I invested a lot of time to create characters and build them. I like the 2d atmosphere. Newer games in 3d make me nauseous,  literally.  I started playing because it offered an unending world with no way to win.

    Will UO last? Probably. Will it evolve? Probably not. You get to the point where there is nowhere left to go. No one asked my opinion but I am sharing it anyway. Is there a solution? Sure. Is it easy? Of course not. I would have started merging shards a long time ago. I would have brought it to 1 shard per US timezone. 1 shard per other country. And I would have found a way to strip down the code to create a classic server. Someone out there has the code for pre tram. Maybe it would have to be a stand alone client. But not having that pre tram option ran off a lot of supporters.

    That is my $.02 worth. I will continue to play until they pull the plugs on the servers as will many others. Hopefully that is far in the future.
    Hate to say it but it seemed not so exciting of an announcement.  What I gathered from the live stream was this: We've basically put the production shards on autopilot with no plans of expansion or updating other than the occasional TOT type events while we spend the next year working on a project that will appeal to a small percentage of players. When? Soon.
    While on one side I would be incline to think likewise as you, I must say that "in theory", the Project DOES HAVE potential to be helpful to Ultima Online BUT, to my opinion, it all depends VERY MUCH on how they will Design the mechanics that will govern this New Legacy Dungeon.

    Let me explain my thinking better.

    IN THEORY, the idea to give to New Players a Shard where they have 1 Year to build up and Develop, and THEN move onto the other Shards when the shattering takes place on the New Legacy Shard is a good idea BUT, it much depends on what types of gameplays the New Shatd will support and promote.

    IF it will mainly or only promote and support PvP, then I agree with you, this New Shard will only cater and interest only those few players interested in PvP (most players enjoy PvM and are not interested in PvP) and, mind you, not even all of them IF these New legacy Shard will still be plagued by rampant cheating, scripting and hacking that we see on the regular UO Shards.

    A lot of players, infact, who "might" still be interested in getting into PvP, give it up when they see that quite a few of their fellow PvP players like to get an edge from scripts, hacks and cheats from Third Party Programs.....

    IF, instead, the New Legacy Shard will be built to promote BOTH gameplays, PvM and PvP likewise, then a lot more players might be interested in playing on it to then move on, when they will be developed more, to the regular and current shards when the shattering takes place after a Year or so.

    BUT, of course, IF we are going to want to conceive a New Shard where PvM and PvP will want to co-exist, THEN it will be necessary to Design a mechanics which WILL effectively contain and limit player killing or, give it a few weeks, all PvMers will bail out....

    This will mean, to my viewing, a mechanics with Notoriety and Rewards and Prizes to give to "Blue" PvPers who will hunt down actively and succesfully "Red" PvPers thus limiting and containing their effects on PvMers gameplay.

    As of now, and it is before out eyes pretty much on all shards, even on Siege and Mugen, most PvPers if not all of them, make Reds and go killing Blues.

    Where do you see Blue, skilled PvPers going out and actively killing Red pkillers ? On no Shard, pretty much, not even on Siege or Mugen, that I can understand of.

    This simply is, I need to gather, because the current Design and mechanics promotes more a PvPer to become a Red killing Blues, rather then a Blue killing Reds.

    So, IF we want the New Legancy Shard to host BOTH PvP AND PvM, I think that the Designers will need to conceive a Notoriety system and Rewards and Prizes  to award to "Blue" PvPers to want to actively go out there to help out and protect PvMers against "Reds" Pkillers....

    Basically, if we want the New Legacy shards to have Criminals and Cops likewise, so to speak, to then permit PvM gmeplay on it also, it is also necessary to give to PvP players incentives to make a "Blue" PvPing "cop" that hunts down "Red" UO criminals....

    And it got to be something different to what we have now since, as I said, currently most players PvPing are all Reds, hardly any PvPer does it with a Blue character going actively after Red characters...

    The problem that I see though, is that it al depends on whether the current Developers' Team wants to support on the New Legacy Shard PvP AND PvM gameplay....

    I might well be wrong (which I hope as I am more for PvM gameplay...) BUT, from listening to to day's Live Stream, I personally got the impression that the current goal might be more pointing towards PvP for the New Legacy Shard, with not much for PvM....

    So, the Project might be helpfull for Ultima Online overall but only, at least to my thinking, if the New Legacy Shard will promote and suport BOTH PvP and PvM gameplay, likewise.

    If it will only or mostly cater for PvP, leaving PvM players to their faifth and doom, after a few weeks of being bashed over and over these players will bail out of the new Shard which will then become only a niche Shard for a few PvP oriented players like the Siege and Mugen Shards are.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • When someone write the cliff notes on Popps sermon, send me a copy...
  • RubyKnightRubyKnight Posts: 169
    edited September 2020
    When someone write the cliff notes on Popps sermon, send me a copy...
    Wow, Troll much? Cliff notes, if you don't have anything useful to say, shut yer trap....
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  • When someone write the cliff notes on Popps sermon, send me a copy...
    Wow, Troll much? Cliff notes, if you don't have anything useful to say, shut yer trap....
    huh? Popps is in this thread literally the comment above Uriah! Who's the one trolling?
  • It had not loaded when I posted. I edited it accordingly.

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  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 326Moderator
    Please keep the conversation on the topic at hand and resist personal attacks. Thank you.
  • KirthagKirthag Posts: 531
    I skipped Aristotle's---- err, popp's--- post...

    Basically, IF this "legacy shard" is going to be similar to Pre-Tram UO... I can see people coming back. IF the devs put in a bounty system, that will just make it even more interesting. Personally, I miss the classic bounty system - it helped balance the rampant PKing of non-combatants and gave some PVMers a chance to learn PVP in a real role-playing sense (I am one of those). I can also see this being a -reason- to actually form community again, something seriously lacking. 

    What would be good for this little ... uh... experiment - keep it to a single toon per player. THAT will drive the community aspect of it (like on SP & Mugen) and force the socialization that is kinda missing in most prodo shards.

    Excuse me, is mid-terms... I really should be studying ethics and not reading up on my favorite addiction. <span>:pensive:</span>

    I have a tiny glimmer of hope.
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited September 2020
    They don't currently play 'siege' as it is 'too hard' (which is baloney as you can work up a char on siege just as easily as on any shard) . There is zero hope that any kinda of open pvp type thing is gonna draw players back.  Kidding themselves. 

    One thing I have learned in my 58 yrs is that you CANNOT GO BACK.  Any attempt will be a failure or cater to a tiny niche market of dinosaurs that will not move on. I notice there was absolutely NO detail on how they are gonna market this?  What new players?  Where are they gonna come from?  That video was really sad, I mean it looked like something out of the internet history pages.   The cc didn't make it look appealing either so outdated and over all embarrassing. It was also stated quite clearly they are gonna do NOTHING about the cheats and hacks. 

    I am still digesting this 'new' news but I am with @RubyKnight on this. I see absolutely nothing here that will attract players and all the devs patting themselves on the back for this new beaut idea is smoke and mirrors.  All this is gonna do is drag 100% attention off the 'real' game and focus it on a shard that is doomed to failure from the start.

    If the 'reward' and style of the Blackgate is anything to go by we may as well call it quits now. What an atrocious introduction to the 'new' system it is, utterly useless rewards and a system designed to make it easier to just toss out some crap to the masses while they work on their new idea.   I mean after close to a year we get to go and kill drakes, trogs and dragons, how exciting all to get a rune to lockdown on our steps.  

    I guess the focus has already shifted. I am calling this now as the death knoll for UO as the amount of time, energy and resources this will take will result in not only a failure of that baby shard, but will destroy the content and future updates for the existing shards.  



    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    It was a MASSIVE letdown. 
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • Might have been a bit better had they even known what they were offering.
    Some shard, with an undetermined ruleset,  with something like VvV, but we haven't decided what time frames it will encompass...

    To paraphrase Vendor Search,  Your Message Was Too Vague, Please Try Again Later.

    And some of the old schoolers might even be excited, if we knew when the hell we were talking about.  Pre AoS?  T2A era? 
  • qweryqwery Posts: 23
    This new "innovative" legacy shard is a poor response to the existing problematic shards.
    This is an unacceptable position to take.
    Frankly speaking, these days are not the same as 20 years ago.
    There are so many starry-eyed games that can be played with one hand, and now it's not worth spending 18 hours a day on one internet game, and the MMO player population is moving more and more to MOBAs and other types of games.
    Is this great announcement a breakthrough that will keep the sinking ship afloat?
    Unfortunately, it didn't look that way.
    If you run after two hares, you will catch neither.
  • MissE said:
    They don't currently play 'siege' as it is 'too hard' (which is baloney as you can work up a char on siege just as easily as on any shard) . There is zero hope that any kinda of open pvp type thing is gonna draw players back.  Kidding themselves. 


    No one can take anything you say on this topic seriously when you open with 'siege'
  • That's funny, I had a discord full of players who had quit over the last decade all excited and ready to return to Ultima Online for this. You guys are worried Luna Bank wont be there for you to sit and watch people, its okay. You can just do it at another Bank. It'll be okay.

    Btw "SIEGE" is a joke server, and this is not even close to comparable to the absolutely failure of a server that siege is.
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited September 2020
    MissE said:
    They don't currently play 'siege' as it is 'too hard' (which is baloney as you can work up a char on siege just as easily as on any shard) . There is zero hope that any kinda of open pvp type thing is gonna draw players back.  Kidding themselves. 


    No one can take anything you say on this topic seriously when you open with 'siege'
    You missed the point entirely.   Why am I not surprised.  The point was

    • we have a shard, Siege, that is open world pvp but with 'safe zones'  just as they described 'new legacy' to be. 
    • We have a shard Siege, with no transfers on  just as they described 'new legacy' to be. 
    • We have a shard Siege  with a different skill gaining system, just as they described 'new legacy' to be although there was no detail, in fact from my reading it will be 'easier' to skill maybe they are gonna give you a drop down list with "here have 100 magery on it!". Who knows. 
    • We have a shard that doesn't have it's main focus on items as there is no insurance ie Siege.  The question of insurance was not seen or ignored in the live stream although it was asked a dozen times so I have no idea if insurance will be a thing on new legacy, if it is then we all know what the pvp crowd will say to that.  

    My comment re siege was people already don't play there as it is 'too hard' ie they hate getting pk'd or they 'hate'  having to work skills differently to the way they do on prodo, they HATE even more that you can't insure stuff.  

    What I didn't see in that live stream was ANYTHING that showed how it was any different from siege.  If people won't try siege for more than ten seconds than getting people to 'go back in time' for a nostalgia shard will probably work just as well.

    I can't get past the question for EXISTING players as to what is the point of it, if you have 7 or more fully trained characters on your shard what is in it for YOU? 

    You get to play a character under some new rules that gets blown up at the end of the year.  You get to get pk'd while out mining so that you get the danger rush?  Fine you can do that now in Fel.  You get a more intuitive way to skill up?  Fine rework your character to your hearts content or go to siege where you have to shear your own sheep to get cloth for bandaids.   Yes they still shear sheep on siege.  And NO I don't play Siege, nor am I advising anyone to play it, nor do I think it is the be all  and end all.  I am trying to figure out what is different. At least I can say I did give it a good go for two yrs unlike most players.

    I am just trying to get my head around what a 10, 15 , 20 year old VET is gonna get out of this.



    Can someone tell me? 


    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • MissE said:
    MissE said:
    They don't currently play 'siege' as it is 'too hard' (which is baloney as you can work up a char on siege just as easily as on any shard) . There is zero hope that any kinda of open pvp type thing is gonna draw players back.  Kidding themselves. 


    No one can take anything you say on this topic seriously when you open with 'siege'
    You missed the point entirely.   Why am I not surprised.  The point was

    • we have a shard, Siege, that is open world pvp but with 'safe zones'  just as they described 'new legacy' to be. 
    • We have a shard Siege, with no transfers on  just as they described 'new legacy' to be. 
    • We have a shard Siege  with a different skill gaining system, just as they described 'new legacy' to be although there was no detail, in fact from my reading it will be 'easier' to skill maybe they are gonna give you a drop down list with "here have 100 magery on it!". Who knows. 
    • We have a shard that doesn't have it's main focus on items as there is no insurance ie Siege.  The question of insurance was not seen or ignored in the live stream although it was asked a dozen times so I have no idea if insurance will be a thing on new legacy, if it is then we all know what the pvp crowd will say to that.  

    My comment re siege was people already don't play there as it is 'too hard' ie they hate getting pk'd or they 'hate'  having to work skills differently to the way they do on prodo, they HATE even more that you can't insure stuff.  

    What I didn't see in that live stream was ANYTHING that showed how it was any different from siege.  If people won't try siege for more than ten seconds than getting people to 'go back in time' for a nostalgia shard will probably work just as well.

    I can't get past the question for EXISTING players as to what is the point of it, if you have 7 or more fully trained characters on your shard what is in it for YOU? 

    You get to play a character under some new rules that gets blown up at the end of the year.  You get to get pk'd while out mining so that you get the danger rush?  Fine you can do that now in Fel.  You get a more intuitive way to skill up?  Fine rework your character to your hearts content or go to siege where you have to shear your own sheep to get cloth for bandaids.   Yes they still shear sheep on siege.  And NO I don't play Siege, nor am I advising anyone to play it, nor do I think it is the be all  and end all.  I am trying to figure out what is different. At least I can say I did give it a good go for two yrs unlike most players.

    I am just trying to get my head around what a 10, 15 , 20 year old VET is gonna get out of this.



    Can someone tell me? 



    A cow has 4 legs, just like a dog.
    They both have a nose, they breath out of.
    Both are animals.
    Both have a tail.

    So as you can see, by the logic of someone who missed the point entirely herself, cows and dogs are probably the same.

    I'm a 20+  year vet of this game. I've been a thief, a roleplayer, a pvp roleplayer, a pvper. I've played just about every production server there is. I've played Siege. We know you dont play Siege, because if you did maybe you'd realize how off you are. Siege is absolutely still about items. Do you really think people arent wearing high end gear on this server?

    Less than 1% of this server actually does things like sheering sheep for bandaids. It's not 1999 anymore, Dorthy.

    I always wonder why people try to comment outside the realm of what they know.

    My group of former guildmates, had 21 people today in discord, 18 of them who havent logged on uo in years. Of the 21, 21 of them plan to atleast play part-time once the release.

    Just because its not your cup of tea, doesnt mean you spit in it so nobody else can drink it.



  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited September 2020


    A cow has 4 legs, just like a dog.
    They both have a nose, they breath out of.
    Both are animals.
    Both have a tail.

    So as you can see, by the logic of someone who missed the point entirely herself, cows and dogs are probably the same.

    I'm a 20+  year vet of this game. I've been a thief, a roleplayer, a pvp roleplayer, a pvper. I've played just about every production server there is. I've played Siege. We know you dont play Siege, because if you did maybe you'd realize how off you are. Siege is absolutely still about items. Do you really think people arent wearing high end gear on this server?

    Less than 1% of this server actually does things like sheering sheep for bandaids. It's not 1999 anymore, Dorthy.

    I always wonder why people try to comment outside the realm of what they know.

    My group of former guildmates, had 21 people today in discord, 18 of them who havent logged on uo in years. Of the 21, 21 of them plan to atleast play part-time once the release.

    Just because its not your cup of tea, doesnt mean you spit in it so nobody else can drink it.



    Another who has missed the point. 

    I didn't say ppl on siege don't wear high end gear, what I did say is that without insurance it isn't all about the gear.  There are just as many basic crafted /imbued suits on there and the 'good' items are the ones siege blessed or high end gear used by the better pvp'ers who loot as much as they get looted.  UNLIKE prodo shard where every toon runs round in the best stuff in every slot every day without loss. Because they can insure it. I think having sat in VICE discord server and listened to em for 2 yrs and what to bless and what to keep handy I would of got a clue. Also watching what I sold in my shop there which netted me over 250million gold in the time I was there I kinda got an idea of what to stock and how to get it.

    I sold a hundred crafted high resist lrc suits on siege for the very reason that people needed back up suits for the times they got looted.  At least 50%-80% more than I ever sold on prodo shards for that reason.  I think I have a good idea about what I am talking about, in fact odds are you bought stuff from the place I run as most players did.

    I played siege FULL TIME for two years and ran a shop, which is still there in case I ever get the urge to return.  The point on bandaids was another thing you wanna harp on, the ONLY way you get aids on siege is by those crafters that do that gathering for you, you cannot buy cloth from the NPC unless you buy dresses and chop em up, you cannot buy leather or ingots or whatever unless you gather them yourself either with a miner or lumberjack or scuttling merchant ships. It was just an example that on siege things are simpler and more 'nostalgic' in that like the old classic shards  you have to generate your own stuff NOT just head to the NPC to buy it.  That was the point and it is also correct.  But again it is not about bandaids that was just an example of the only way to get those items is to gather the stuff yourself.  That is NOT incorrect, unless something has changed in the past yr or so since I moved.

    I do not pvp, have zero interest in it. but to play on siege  you don't need to pvp. Frankly this discussion isn't even about PVP, it is about this shard that is classic not classic, pvp but not pvp, opt in and then get your char blown up after reset.

    As for your former guildmates ask em if they are happy to come back if there is insurance on this new shard that wasn't answered in the live stream?  Ask em if it is all only consentual  pvp and only 5% of the players opt into it will they be just as eager to come back? I think people have some conception that this is gonna be a new 'classic' shard and Kyronix actually stated this was NOT gonna be the case.

    I don't think there was enough information given to us to even have a CLUE about what this server is or isn't.  It is NOT gonna be a classic shard with open pvp, that was stated clearly yet people seem to of missed that, they talked about safe zones etc.  It was stated clearly that nothing was gonna be done about the existing cheat programs, which is another reason lots of pvp'ers quit to start with. No change there.    If it is gonna be opt in pvp as it says in the faqs some kinda reworked  VVV you will get the trammie carebears on there who won't opt in.  So will be lucky to get 5% participating, if it is gonna have insurance than it will be worse than siege as at least on siege  you can loot stuff.

    Not sure what you actually think I am trying to say, all I am trying to figure out is HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT from Siege.  I think that is a legitimate question which no one yet has answered including your good self.   Tell me if you are so experienced how this shard will differ from Siege ruleset on the information you currently have? 

    My only point was if people don't or won't play siege for whatever reason then what makes you think they will play this after the initial 'rush' has worn off.  How is the pvp on this new server gonna be any better than what is currently on siege given the stuff the devs have said?  And how will it attract players back?

    Also, which people have also failed to address is what happens to every other shard while this is being worked on?  Given the size of the dev team and the fact this thing doesn't even seem to be 'worked' out  yet to the point where they can't give us much detail then how much time and energy is gonna go into to at the expense of other content on the main shards etc?

    Also what does the 'rest' of the world do who aren't in the USA?  I didn't pvp on Siege for two reasons 1 I had no real inclination but 2 because I pinged 280 there.  This 'New Legacy' will have one shard based in the USA so anyone not in good PING distance to it is s.. out of luck if pvp is their thing.

    I pay the same subscription as the next person and I don't see anything announced today that will in any way improve my game play or give me new content.  It is not about it being my cup of tea it is about ME getting value for the 5 subscriptions I am paying for and getting value for SHARDS  I am playing on and have been playing on for the past 17yrs. .








    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,483
    edited September 2020
    Kirthag said:
    I skipped Aristotle's---- err, popp's--- post...

    Basically, IF this "legacy shard" is going to be similar to Pre-Tram UO... I can see people coming back. IF the devs put in a bounty system, that will just make it even more interesting. Personally, I miss the classic bounty system - it helped balance the rampant PKing of non-combatants and gave some PVMers a chance to learn PVP in a real role-playing sense (I am one of those). I can also see this being a -reason- to actually form community again, something seriously lacking. 

    What would be good for this little ... uh... experiment - keep it to a single toon per player. THAT will drive the community aspect of it (like on SP & Mugen) and force the socialization that is kinda missing in most prodo shards.

    Excuse me, is mid-terms... I really should be studying ethics and not reading up on my favorite addiction. <span>:pensive:</span>

    I have a tiny glimmer of hope.
     IF the devs put in a bounty system, that will just make it even more interesting. Personally, I miss the classic bounty system - it helped balance the rampant PKing of non-combatants and gave some PVMers a chance to learn PVP in a real role-playing sense (I am one of those). I can also see this being a -reason- to actually form community again, something seriously lacking. 
    Seriously ?

    Player killers were cashing their OWN Bounties using their Blues to kill their Reds....

     Raph Koster (UO Developer back in those days we are talking about in this thread) in this live forum https://www.raphkoster.com/games/interviews-and-panels/live-forum-qa-with-raph-koster-1016/ says....
    I do believe in a crime/punishment system. But everything we tried did fall prey to new accounts and killers who just didn’t care. If they have no emotional attachment to losing (e.g., don’t give a shit) then there isn’t any in-game punishment you can offer up. I don’t know if you were around for it, but I tried for a LONG time to get that balance right in SWG. Bounty systems became high score tables. Rewards were claimed by dummy accounts. Most everything we tried became a tool for the bad guys. And the good guys literally had no way to win, because the bad guys could just come back the next day, over and over, and just wear your spirit down.
    To be noted : "Bounty systems became high score tables. Rewards were claimed by dummy accounts."

    And I will add, if the pkillers did not have a second, dummy account, they would just use a friend to kill them and then share their own Bounty...

    No thanks.

    Been there done that, the Ultima Online Bounty system did not work since its start.

    If the current Developers, @Kyronix , @Bleak ; want to put in for the New Legacy Shard a mechanics that would actually WORK, they need to learn from the past Development of those Years back then and see all that did NOT work, including the Bounty System where Reds where, one way or the other, cashing their own Bounties.....

    And, to my opinion, a System that would work is one that would cause for the Red a loss that has a higher value as what the benefit would be for those doing the killing of the Murderer.

    A SIGNIFICANTLY higher loss or it would still not work.

    For example, let's s say that a Blue killing a Red would be awarded 100,000 gold (just making up a figure for the sake of the discussion) for killing a Red, that same Red who got killed, should be taken from his/her Bank account like 200,000 gold if not more.

    This way, no Red in his/her sane mind would let them get killed by their own Blue or a friend's Blue for a Profit because that kill would STILL cause them a flat out 200,000 - 100,000 = 100,000 gold loss, plus, likely, some Notoriety loss....

    This UO player here https://community.stratics.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-pvp.418565/post-3057110 , mentioned something which I found interesting...
    A very popular free shard has figured this out by charging reds for resurrection based off of how many counts they have. Rez killing people, or killing new players doesn't make sense if it is going to cost you.
    I reckon that "charging Reds" means here "making them pay" from their own UO gold.... that is, inflict them a painfull loss for their being killed.....

    As I said, "if" the Developers want to have on the New Legacy Shard to co-exist PvP AND PvM, they need to come up with a way to contain player killing or, give it a few weeks, and PvMer will bail out of it leaving it a niche PvP Shard who might even hurt Siege Perilous already low population.... I imagine that it might look appealing to PvPers from Siege to want to start anew on a new Shard where they might be expecting to find more targets as they may have on Siege....

    I am not mentioning Mugen, because, as we know, in PvP connection is quite important and, as it has been announced that the new Shard will be US based, unless it will be based on the West coast the connection for Asian PvPers to it might not be much appealing to go play there....

    This way to contain players' killing need to be one where the loss for the Red getting killed by a Blue will have to be significantly higher as whatever Reward the Blue will receive.

    Otherwise, we will see back again Reds' cashing their own Bounties either through their other account Blue or via a friend doing their killing as it was back in the old UO days....

    That is at least how I see it.
     
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,483
    qwery said:
    This new "innovative" legacy shard is a poor response to the existing problematic shards.
    This is an unacceptable position to take.
    Frankly speaking, these days are not the same as 20 years ago.
    There are so many starry-eyed games that can be played with one hand, and now it's not worth spending 18 hours a day on one internet game, and the MMO player population is moving more and more to MOBAs and other types of games.
    Is this great announcement a breakthrough that will keep the sinking ship afloat?
    Unfortunately, it didn't look that way.
    If you run after two hares, you will catch neither.
    Frankly speaking, these days are not the same as 20 years ago.
    Absolutely.

    And one very notable difference that I see between today and back then, is that back then, while there were "some" cheats available for PvP, it was nothing like the plethora and vastity of Cheats that a player can take advantage of today to get a serious edge in their PvPing in Ultima Online.

    So, putting out a new PvP Shard where "anything goes" without seriously contrasting and fighting the ability of today's UO PvPers to be able to use amazing scripts, cheats and hacks that basically make them almost unwinnable, is only, to my humble opinion, a futile exercise....

    There is plenty of players who "would like" to engage in PvP but then stop short of it when they see what some players use as far as cheats, scripts and hacks go, to get a serious edge in their PvPing.

    What is the point, if one does NOT want to cheat in their gaming, to engage in "any" PvP if they then have to face, with quite some likeliness, fellow players using cheats, scripts and hacks who give them a serious edge ?

    Which means, that the New Legacy Shard, to my opinion, would FIRST need to have a new UO Client that was cheats, scripts and hacks PROOF.

    Proof, in the sense that, suchn a new UO Client would either not permit the use of such cheats, scripts and hacks OR, could automatically detect their being used and consequentially ban the user, automatically.

    THEN, we could talk about a new PvP Shard....

    That is at least how I see it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,483
    MissE said:


    A cow has 4 legs, just like a dog.
    They both have a nose, they breath out of.
    Both are animals.
    Both have a tail.

    So as you can see, by the logic of someone who missed the point entirely herself, cows and dogs are probably the same.

    I'm a 20+  year vet of this game. I've been a thief, a roleplayer, a pvp roleplayer, a pvper. I've played just about every production server there is. I've played Siege. We know you dont play Siege, because if you did maybe you'd realize how off you are. Siege is absolutely still about items. Do you really think people arent wearing high end gear on this server?

    Less than 1% of this server actually does things like sheering sheep for bandaids. It's not 1999 anymore, Dorthy.

    I always wonder why people try to comment outside the realm of what they know.

    My group of former guildmates, had 21 people today in discord, 18 of them who havent logged on uo in years. Of the 21, 21 of them plan to atleast play part-time once the release.

    Just because its not your cup of tea, doesnt mean you spit in it so nobody else can drink it.



    Another who has missed the point. 

    I didn't say ppl on siege don't wear high end gear, what I did say is that without insurance it isn't all about the gear.  There are just as many basic crafted /imbued suits on there and the 'good' items are the ones siege blessed or high end gear used by the better pvp'ers who loot as much as they get looted.  UNLIKE prodo shard where every toon runs round in the best stuff in every slot every day without loss. Because they can insure it. I think having sat in VICE discord server and listened to em for 2 yrs and what to bless and what to keep handy I would of got a clue. Also watching what I sold in my shop there which netted me over 250million gold in the time I was there I kinda got an idea of what to stock and how to get it.

    I sold a hundred crafted high resist lrc suits on siege for the very reason that people needed back up suits for the times they got looted.  At least 50%-80% more than I ever sold on prodo shards for that reason.  I think I have a good idea about what I am talking about, in fact odds are you bought stuff from the place I run as most players did.

    I played siege FULL TIME for two years and ran a shop, which is still there in case I ever get the urge to return.  The point on bandaids was another thing you wanna harp on, the ONLY way you get aids on siege is by those crafters that do that gathering for you, you cannot buy cloth from the NPC unless you buy dresses and chop em up, you cannot buy leather or ingots or whatever unless you gather them yourself either with a miner or lumberjack or scuttling merchant ships. It was just an example that on siege things are simpler and more 'nostalgic' in that like the old classic shards  you have to generate your own stuff NOT just head to the NPC to buy it.  That was the point and it is also correct.  But again it is not about bandaids that was just an example of the only way to get those items is to gather the stuff yourself.  That is NOT incorrect, unless something has changed in the past yr or so since I moved.

    I do not pvp, have zero interest in it. but to play on siege  you don't need to pvp. Frankly this discussion isn't even about PVP, it is about this shard that is classic not classic, pvp but not pvp, opt in and then get your char blown up after reset.

    As for your former guildmates ask em if they are happy to come back if there is insurance on this new shard that wasn't answered in the live stream?  Ask em if it is all only consentual  pvp and only 5% of the players opt into it will they be just as eager to come back? I think people have some conception that this is gonna be a new 'classic' shard and Kyronix actually stated this was NOT gonna be the case.

    I don't think there was enough information given to us to even have a CLUE about what this server is or isn't.  It is NOT gonna be a classic shard with open pvp, that was stated clearly yet people seem to of missed that, they talked about safe zones etc.  It was stated clearly that nothing was gonna be done about the existing cheat programs, which is another reason lots of pvp'ers quit to start with. No change there.    If it is gonna be opt in pvp as it says in the faqs some kinda reworked  VVV you will get the trammie carebears on there who won't opt in.  So will be lucky to get 5% participating, if it is gonna have insurance than it will be worse than siege as at least on siege  you can loot stuff.

    Not sure what you actually think I am trying to say, all I am trying to figure out is HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT from Siege.  I think that is a legitimate question which no one yet has answered including your good self.   Tell me if you are so experienced how this shard will differ from Siege ruleset on the information you currently have? 

    My only point was if people don't or won't play siege for whatever reason then what makes you think they will play this after the initial 'rush' has worn off.  How is the pvp on this new server gonna be any better than what is currently on siege given the stuff the devs have said?  And how will it attract players back?

    Also, which people have also failed to address is what happens to every other shard while this is being worked on?  Given the size of the dev team and the fact this thing doesn't even seem to be 'worked' out  yet to the point where they can't give us much detail then how much time and energy is gonna go into to at the expense of other content on the main shards etc?

    Also what does the 'rest' of the world do who aren't in the USA?  I didn't pvp on Siege for two reasons 1 I had no real inclination but 2 because I pinged 280 there.  This 'New Legacy' will have one shard based in the USA so anyone not in good PING distance to it is s.. out of luck if pvp is their thing.

    I pay the same subscription as the next person and I don't see anything announced today that will in any way improve my game play or give me new content.  It is not about it being my cup of tea it is about ME getting value for the 5 subscriptions I am paying for and getting value for SHARDS  I am playing on and have been playing on for the past 17yrs. .









    As for your former guildmates ask em if they are happy to come back if there is insurance on this new shard that wasn't answered in the live stream?  Ask em if it is all only consentual  pvp and only 5% of the players opt into it will they be just as eager to come back? I think people have some conception that this is gonna be a new 'classic' shard and Kyronix actually stated this was NOT gonna be the case.
    I would have added another Paragraph to that....

    "As for your former guildmates, ask em how will they feel dealing to PvP against quite a number of fellow players who might be using today's advanced cheats, scripts and hacks giving them a hell of an advantage in PvP...."

    What would they do ? Fight without using any cheats, hacks or scripts and thus being always at a disadvantage ?

    My point being, is there even a point for those PvPers who do NOT want to use cheats, hacks and scripts to join a PvP server where, if the current Classic and Enhanced Clients will be used, as my understanding is from the Live Stream will be, chances are that there will be hacks, scripts and cheats going to be used like they are on the current Shards ?
  • Pack it in pops.  Short, sharp, concise.  Once and for all stop with the boring essays. Nobody will read all your drivel 
  • SeraphimSeraphim Posts: 1
    edited September 2020
    So they just announced a huge FU into faces of all EU players..? Wow so let US enjoy the new huge update that everyone was pumped about!!

    With ping 100+ we cant really enjoy the biggest announcment in 15 years... lol

    I was so destroyed when i lost my house few months ago but now? Im ready to dig a grave for my credentials because this is huge for everyone outside of US.. 

    (not talking about this dumb system where your not even being warned by email or so that your house will fll down in a game that is so hugely oriented around storage and nostalgia - sooo dmb because even fans are making tools like UOmobile but official team cant even make a warning about a house decay)
  • I had been curious about exactly how the "open world PVP" was going to work because they're being really coy about that, but now that I know the server resets periodically my interest is rock bottom. Good luck selling this to new/returning players. Play here, everything you do will be erased in 1d12 months depending on when you showed up.
  • I think I am starting to get the idea of this shard. It appears to be totally for new players to build their characters without having to also figure out how to buy the things they need since they don't have the deep pockets of a Veteran player. They will be able to focus on building their characters more and learning to play the "Beginners" game.  then after that first year they should have learned the basics, built a bank account and amassed some nice items .  then they "Shatter" the shard and they can "Graduate" to a prodo shard and learn the advanced game. Then they wipe the shard and let a new "class" of beginners do it all over. 
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • I think I am starting to get the idea of this shard. It appears to be totally for new players to build their characters without having to also figure out how to buy the things they need since they don't have the deep pockets of a Veteran player. They will be able to focus on building their characters more and learning to play the "Beginners" game.  then after that first year they should have learned the basics, built a bank account and amassed some nice items .  then they "Shatter" the shard and they can "Graduate" to a prodo shard and learn the advanced game. Then they wipe the shard and let a new "class" of beginners do it all over. 
    That was my impression too.  Sort of a 'feeder' shard?  For some time the devs have been advised on these boards that UO is too hard for new players trying to begin. This is the answer, and I think a pretty good one.
    Pointless raging about pvp on the new shard, until it's clearer how it will work. We only know it won't be the uncontrolled 'daren't leave town' version from the early years, they said so. Pointless wondering about training characters, because they've said that won't be the way it is on current shards. We need to wait and find out.

  • SethSeth Posts: 1,404
    edited September 2020
    I think I am starting to get the idea of this shard. It appears to be totally for new players to build their characters without having to also figure out how to buy the things they need since they don't have the deep pockets of a Veteran player. They will be able to focus on building their characters more and learning to play the "Beginners" game.  then after that first year they should have learned the basics, built a bank account and amassed some nice items .  then they "Shatter" the shard and they can "Graduate" to a prodo shard and learn the advanced game. Then they wipe the shard and let a new "class" of beginners do it all over. 
    Ah... I think what you said makes sense. 

    Furthermore as @Seraphim reminded this is a US shard... so i fully agree the topic that this is an underwhelming, major update. 

    There is nothing to be excited about in this update for the rest of the world and vet players  :D

    If there is no marketing, you can make 100 newbie shards and no one will even know UO existed.
    We love bugs....
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited September 2020
    I think I am starting to get the idea of this shard. It appears to be totally for new players to build their characters without having to also figure out how to buy the things they need since they don't have the deep pockets of a Veteran player. They will be able to focus on building their characters more and learning to play the "Beginners" game.  then after that first year they should have learned the basics, built a bank account and amassed some nice items .  then they "Shatter" the shard and they can "Graduate" to a prodo shard and learn the advanced game. Then they wipe the shard and let a new "class" of beginners do it all over. 
    hehe the question is what new players?   The ones that were gonna flood back in with vvv?  Or the ones that were gonna flood back in with EJ?  Those new ones? 

    The main problem with that scenario is there is ZERO marketing in this game other than word of mouth.  When was the last time this was marketed to attract any new player ?

    Without a HUGE marketing effort this will not get any new players. The Legacy shard will be flooded with vets as it is the ONLY new thing we will have and that will strip the players from the existing shards making them even more deserted.  It will be another half populated shard only this one will self destruct at a predetermined time.





    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • Seth said:
    I think I am starting to get the idea of this shard. It appears to be totally for new players to build their characters without having to also figure out how to buy the things they need since they don't have the deep pockets of a Veteran player. They will be able to focus on building their characters more and learning to play the "Beginners" game.  then after that first year they should have learned the basics, built a bank account and amassed some nice items .  then they "Shatter" the shard and they can "Graduate" to a prodo shard and learn the advanced game. Then they wipe the shard and let a new "class" of beginners do it all over. 
    Ah... I think what you said makes sense. 

    Furthermore as @ Seraphim reminded this is a US shard... so i fully agree the topic that this is an underwhelming, major update. 

    There is nothing to be excited about in this update for the rest of the world and vet players  :D

    If there is no marketing, you can make 100 newbie shards and no one will even know UO existed.

    They may want to see how successful the new shard is before they offer it to other regions of the world. I see no reason they couldn't offer it for EU players a couple of months down the road if it is successful for North America.
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • MissE said:
    I think I am starting to get the idea of this shard. It appears to be totally for new players to build their characters without having to also figure out how to buy the things they need since they don't have the deep pockets of a Veteran player. They will be able to focus on building their characters more and learning to play the "Beginners" game.  then after that first year they should have learned the basics, built a bank account and amassed some nice items .  then they "Shatter" the shard and they can "Graduate" to a prodo shard and learn the advanced game. Then they wipe the shard and let a new "class" of beginners do it all over. 
    hehe the question is what new players?   The ones that were gonna flood back in with vvv?  Or the ones that were gonna flood back in with EJ?  Those new ones? 

    The main problem with that scenario is there is ZERO marketing in this game other than word of mouth.  When was the last time this was marketed to attract any new player

    Without a HUGE marketing effort this will not get any new players. The Legacy shard will be flooded with vets as it is the ONLY new thing we will have and that will strip the players from the existing shards making them even more less populated.  It will be another half populated shard only this one will self destruct at a predetermined time.





    I suppose we will find out eventually.
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

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