Thoughts on things UO Leadership SHOULD do

Luc_of_LegendsLuc_of_Legends Posts: 249
edited August 2020 in General Discussions
I have been thinking about the economy, housing monopoly, RMT, and all the other ills faced by UO. 
In my most humble opinion these are the things UO Leadership SHOULD do to reclaim the game.

1) Its time for the RMTers to go.  I am not naming names but we ALL KNOW to which parties I refer.  This means that leadership needs to put some distance between themselves and players.  Certain unname websites need to be sent cease & desist letters giving them 30 days to shut down their operations.  The unmention RMTers would be banned and  restraining order sent.  Their in game assets ( i.e. houses, items, gold etc) would be seized and sold through the UO in game Store for modest prices.  

2) make announcements of the reclamation of UO on the appropriate social media and gaming sites.
Its very important to get the word out so that former UO players will WANT to come back. 

3) talk to Richard Garriott and Starr Long about working with the team on the old code to get bugs and broken things repaired.

4)  the TOS/ROC should be STRICTLY enforced.  If the TOS/ROC says its disallowed that is the final say.  I will say I have seen in just the last 2-3 year absolute FLAGRANT disregard by players for the rules. 

This is a start, I can not speak for anyone but me, I would glad forgo events and other content to get the economy under control. As things stand currently a handful people control UO while leadership stands helplessly by doing nothing.   I am sorry but when housing and items are sells for 100s of millions of gold or large amount of platinums it is off putting and NO PLAYER wants to return to only find that in order to compete they need to spend several hundred to a thousand dollars.  They'll just head on another game. 

I do believe with some work and strong leadership UO could once again become a viable online game.

Comments

  • TimTim Posts: 651
    edited August 2020
    Just out of curiosity a couple of questions 
    • Under what laws would the cease and desist demands be based? 
    • Why do you think those laws would apply and be enforceable in what ever county the web sites are based in?
    • Don't you think seizing and selling someone's assets would result is some costly law suits win or lose?
    • On item 3 have ether Richard Garriott or Richard Garriott expressed any interest in coming back to try and fix 20 yr old code. (I think it makes more sense to do a rewrite with modern program language and procedures but that would cost $$$$$$)
    I don't necessarily disagree with you but............
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,861
    IBTL
  • RockStaRRockStaR Posts: 168
    Tim said:
    Just out of curiosity a couple of questions 
    • Under what laws would the cease and desist demands be based? 
    • Why do you think those laws would apply and be enforceable in what ever county the web sites are based in?
    • Don't you think seizing and selling someone's assets would result is some costly law suits win or lose?
    • On item 3 have ether Richard Garriott or Richard Garriott expressed any interest in coming back to try and fix 20 yr old code. (I think it makes more sense to do a rewrite with modern program language and procedures but that would cost $$$$$$)
    I don't necessarily disagree with you but............
    Cease and desist under intellectual property? Could be a possibility.

    How would seizing and getting rid of their in game assets bring up lawsuits? Under ToS they can ban you and revoke your access at any time. So how would that cause any backlash?
  • RockStaR said:
    Tim said:
    Just out of curiosity a couple of questions 
    • Under what laws would the cease and desist demands be based? 
    • Why do you think those laws would apply and be enforceable in what ever county the web sites are based in?
    • Don't you think seizing and selling someone's assets would result is some costly law suits win or lose?
    • On item 3 have ether Richard Garriott or Richard Garriott expressed any interest in coming back to try and fix 20 yr old code. (I think it makes more sense to do a rewrite with modern program language and procedures but that would cost $$$$$$)
    I don't necessarily disagree with you but............
    Cease and desist under intellectual property? Could be a possibility.

    How would seizing and getting rid of their in game assets bring up lawsuits? Under ToS they can ban you and revoke your access at any time. So how would that cause any backlash?
    Not to mention nothing in the game is owned by anyone except EA.  All your pixel are belong to us . . .
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • TimTim Posts: 651
    The points I was trying to make is 
    • If the sever used by the web site is in county X will they care what another countries (US) court has to say. Ask the recording/movie how easy that is.
    • Confiscate and delete no problem. The sell bit is were I think they may get into problems.

  • RockStaRRockStaR Posts: 168
    Tim said:
    The points I was trying to make is 
    • If the sever used by the web site is in county X will they care what another countries (US) court has to say. Ask the recording/movie how easy that is.
    • Confiscate and delete no problem. The sell bit is were I think they may get into problems.

    Yeah.. please explain how you can get in trouble for selling your own own in game items for a game you own....
  • Uriah_HeepUriah_Heep Posts: 915
    Pawain said:
    IBTL
     Me too!
  • Lord_NabinLord_Nabin Posts: 199
    I just walked from Minoc to Skara Brae clearing the roads along the way of pesky critters loading up on reagents. 

    I didn't see any check points, controlling interests, or even a guild trying to limit my game play in anyway. Thoroughly enjoyed my self and picked up supplies for a new spellbook. 

    Not sure I see anyone controlling UO... seems pretty open to me. 
    Lord Nabin
    High Council Sage
    Ancient Conclave of Wisdom

    ICQ 248-636-691
    Discord Lord Nabin#5433
    lordnabin@yahoo.com
  • Estel_RandirEstel_Randir Posts: 112
    edited August 2020
    You want RMT to go away? If this is somehow achieved them you must remove all existing gold from every account in the game and every account will have to start at zero gold after RMT is completely removed. Do you have any idea how many people buy or have bought gold / items from RMT? I do not have any hard numbers, but the very fact that the in game cost of items is directly (or it was a few years ago) related to how much RMT sells them for should tell you that it is a significant portion of the playerbase.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,527
    I know @Mesanna is dead set against pay to win but maybe if you cant beat them join them is the only way to win......
  • [ I would glad forgo events and other content to get the economy under control.]

    "Economy not working the way you want" is not the same as "economy not working."  These concepts can be fuzzy enough in real life -- let alone in a game.  When you think about it the "economy" of a game isn't really an economy in the same sense a real life one is.  Sure it has more characteristics of an economy than a single-player game economy does.  But, still.  Ultimately this is a game and really that's the only way the "economy" has to work -- as a game mechanic.  By that standard UO's "economy" has been equally broken or equally functional for many years, to varying degrees, and in different ways.

    Oh: It's really hard to imagine folks joining an MMO because they hear it has a cool "economy."  But events and content?  Yes.

    -John's player
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,395
    edited August 2020
    The only major issues I encountered are bugs (see the list in that forum) because the game is not functioning as designed. They are show stoppers.

    House monopoly - Other than Atlantic, there are plenty of land in other shards. I used to get so excited when I placed my first 7x7 on a super crowded Pacific Shard in early 2000. So I cannot see what is wrong with housing.

    Gold - I agree with several posters up there. Maybe the Dev team need to look at updating their gold sink. If it is certain that there are no exploits or dupe bugs, one suggestion is to allow players to buy uo store item with game gold. Maybe that will help to reduce the amount in the market. 

    Also look at updating the rewards, e.g  cleanup, turn in at zoo and library.

    Getting messy (legally) with those external RMT websites is a waste of Dev time, considering they are a smaller team these days. So i doubt it will happen. 

    Asking the original Ultima creators to return to just solve game bugs - Erm?



    We love bugs....
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 486
    The game needs to be recoded entirely.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Dear judge please give us a restraining order to stop RMT sells in UO even though we knew about this practice for 20 years and did nothing about it until now.  
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,472
    edited August 2020
    You want RMT to go away? If this is somehow achieved them you must remove all existing gold from every account in the game and every account will have to start at zero gold after RMT is completely removed. Do you have any idea how many people buy or have bought gold / items from RMT? I do not have any hard numbers, but the very fact that the in game cost of items is directly (or it was a few years ago) related to how much RMT sells them for should tell you that it is a significant portion of the playerbase.
    The question to be asked here, to my opinion, is "why" people might decide to spend real money to buy gold or something else, I guess...

    The answer, at least to my viewing, is "TIME".....

    Unfortunately, the game for many things has been made a mindless, repetitive grinding where the only one thing used up in that grinding is one's own time....

    So, players who happen to have a good earning amount per hour, might think that their time might be better spent earning money in real life rather then getting stuff in the game....

    Let me make an example to better explain myself....

    Let's imagine, just for the sake of the discussion, that someone was able to make 100 US dollars in 1 hour working in real life.

    Now, how much gold might that player earn in Ultima Online farming some spot ?

    Even if they are able to make 10 Millions in UO gold, on average, how much would that relate in real money terms ? Maybe somewhere in the range of 5 bucks....

    So, why would anyone who can earn 100 bucks in an hour want to spend that hour to earn only gold in game that is equivalent to 5 bucks ?

    They would be at a loss of 95 bucks, wouldn't they ?

    Wouldn't they be much better off spending that hour to work, earn 100 bucks and then buy all gold they want in the game ?

    What I am trying to say, is that pushing the getting of something too far in the game, that is, making it way too much time consuming to get a given item that it is ridicolous, has made some players reconsider whether it is better to spend their time in the game into mindless grinding or whether it is more efficient for them to just spend that same time working in real life and then buy whatever they want in the game....

    My point being, that getting stuff in the game should not be so ridicolously time consuming if we do not want people to spend their money on RMT.....

    That is at least how I see it.
  • RockStaRRockStaR Posts: 168
    I have been thinking about the economy, housing monopoly, RMT, and all the other ills faced by UO. 
    In my most humble opinion these are the things UO Leadership SHOULD do to reclaim the game.

    1) Its time for the RMTers to go.  I am not naming names but we ALL KNOW to which parties I refer.  This means that leadership needs to put some distance between themselves and players.  Certain unname websites need to be sent cease & desist letters giving them 30 days to shut down their operations.  The unmention RMTers would be banned and  restraining order sent.  Their in game assets ( i.e. houses, items, gold etc) would be seized and sold through the UO in game Store for modest prices.  

    2) make announcements of the reclamation of UO on the appropriate social media and gaming sites.
    Its very important to get the word out so that former UO players will WANT to come back. 

    3) talk to Richard Garriott and Starr Long about working with the team on the old code to get bugs and broken things repaired.

    4)  the TOS/ROC should be STRICTLY enforced.  If the TOS/ROC says its disallowed that is the final say.  I will say I have seen in just the last 2-3 year absolute FLAGRANT disregard by players for the rules. 

    This is a start, I can not speak for anyone but me, I would glad forgo events and other content to get the economy under control. As things stand currently a handful people control UO while leadership stands helplessly by doing nothing.   I am sorry but when housing and items are sells for 100s of millions of gold or large amount of platinums it is off putting and NO PLAYER wants to return to only find that in order to compete they need to spend several hundred to a thousand dollars.  They'll just head on another game. 

    I do believe with some work and strong leadership UO could once again become a viable online game.
    popps said:
    You want RMT to go away? If this is somehow achieved them you must remove all existing gold from every account in the game and every account will have to start at zero gold after RMT is completely removed. Do you have any idea how many people buy or have bought gold / items from RMT? I do not have any hard numbers, but the very fact that the in game cost of items is directly (or it was a few years ago) related to how much RMT sells them for should tell you that it is a significant portion of the playerbase.
    The question to be asked here, to my opinion, is "why" people might decide to spend real money to buy gold or something else, I guess...

    The answer, at least to my viewing, is "TIME".....

    Unfortunately, the game for many things has been made a mindless, repetitive grinding where the only one thing used up in that grinding is one's own time....

    So, players who happen to have a good earning amount per hour, might think that their time might be better spent earning money in real life rather then getting stuff in the game....

    Let me make an example to better explain myself....

    Let's imagine, just for the sake of the discussion, that someone was able to make 100 US dollars in 1 hour working in real life.

    Now, how much gold might that player earn in Ultima Online farming some spot ?

    Even if they are able to make 10 Millions in UO gold, on average, how much would that relate in real money terms ? Maybe somewhere in the range of 5 bucks....

    So, why would anyone who can earn 100 bucks in an hour want to spend that hour to earn only gold in game that is equivalent to 5 bucks ?

    They would be at a loss of 95 bucks, wouldn't they ?

    Wouldn't they be much better off spending that hour to work, earn 100 bucks and then buy all gold they want in the game ?

    What I am trying to say, is that pushing the getting of something too far in the game, that is, making it way too much time consuming to get a given item that it is ridicolous, has made some players reconsider whether it is better to spend their time in the game into mindless grinding or whether it is more efficient for them to just spend that same time working in real life and then buy whatever they want in the game....

    My point being, that getting stuff in the game should not be so ridicolously time consuming if we do not want people to spend their money on RMT.....

    That is at least how I see it.
    Ban buying gold from 3rd parties then. Ban gold sellers and gold buyers. WoW has done this. And then make a game time token that can be sold for gold. Like the WoW token on auction house.... But token can be put on a vendor. Token will give 30 days of play time.
  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 322
    Why do you care if somebody wants to buy gold? If I was returning/ new player and wanted to suit up and get into the game, I'd might buy a plat and jump in. It takes forever to start up (suit,pets) and watch your friends hit high end. Yes, I know you can buy a mythic token via UO store and pretty much be there in a week, but many noobs do not. Again, who cares if somebody buys gold, does it really hurt your game? Now they have investment in the game, maybe they will stay even after seeing nothing new for 8 months.
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,395
    RockStaR said:
    Ban buying gold from 3rd parties then. Ban gold sellers and gold buyers. WoW has done this. And then make a game time token that can be sold for gold. Like the WoW token on auction house.... But token can be put on a vendor. Token will give 30 days of play time.
    How do they ban gold trading between players? They can track their Whatsapp/ICQ and paypal account?

    We love bugs....
  • KirthagKirthag Posts: 531
    UO's business model and operation do not lend itself to any of the OP's suggestions. 

    RG & SL were leaders and producers - and the code that is behind UO now is so far removed from what was - they wouldn't know where to start. In case you do not know (seriously?!) notes on the code were lost so long ago, there is a belief that it all is an urban tale.

    The rest... just... *sigh*

    Blizzard operates differently.. WoW is a totally different game built on different (more flexible) tech.

    Instead of being forum warriors, how about y'all do something productive in the game. Really now... just stoppit already.


  • Lord_NabinLord_Nabin Posts: 199
    @Kirthag good to see you old friend.

    *tips a glass of good old Moonglow red in salute* 
    Lord Nabin
    High Council Sage
    Ancient Conclave of Wisdom

    ICQ 248-636-691
    Discord Lord Nabin#5433
    lordnabin@yahoo.com
  • RockStaRRockStaR Posts: 168
    Kirthag said:
    UO's business model and operation do not lend itself to any of the OP's suggestions. 

    RG & SL were leaders and producers - and the code that is behind UO now is so far removed from what was - they wouldn't know where to start. In case you do not know (seriously?!) notes on the code were lost so long ago, there is a belief that it all is an urban tale.

    The rest... just... *sigh*

    Blizzard operates differently.. WoW is a totally different game built on different (more flexible) tech.

    Instead of being forum warriors, how about y'all do something productive in the game. Really now... just stoppit already.


    And this is why there will not be a classic Ultima server
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,472
    jelinidas said:
    Why do you care if somebody wants to buy gold? If I was returning/ new player and wanted to suit up and get into the game, I'd might buy a plat and jump in. It takes forever to start up (suit,pets) and watch your friends hit high end. Yes, I know you can buy a mythic token via UO store and pretty much be there in a week, but many noobs do not. Again, who cares if somebody buys gold, does it really hurt your game? Now they have investment in the game, maybe they will stay even after seeing nothing new for 8 months.
     Again, who cares if somebody buys gold, does it really hurt your game?
    Well, it depends, I imagine, to what "extreme" would some players go in order to pile up gold to sell it for real money....

    If scripting, duping and cheating was to be used, like as in do "everything possible" to "streamline" the accumulation of gold well, then I guess that all that scripting, duping and cheating might hurt fellow players (who do not script, dupe or cheat) gameplay....

    I am NOT saying that those who sell gold necessarily do it, by no means, I am just saying that for "some" players, perhaps, maybe, the ability to sell gold for real money "could, or could not", work as an incentive to do whatever is possible, thus including scripting, duping and cheating, so as to accumulate more gold and faster and thus be able to get more when selling it for real money.

    Many would just not do it, and just get their gold in the game fair and square with no scripting, duping or cheating going on, but if some players were instead going to script, dupe and cheat to get more gold, faster, and then sell it, well, then I guess that yes, that scripting, duping and cheating could hurt fellow players gameplay.

    At least, that is my opinion of it.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 194
    edited August 2020


    1) Its time for the RMTers to go.  I am not naming names but we ALL KNOW to which parties I refer.  This means that leadership needs to put some distance between themselves and players.  Certain unname websites need to be sent cease & desist letters giving them 30 days to shut down their operations.  The unmention RMTers would be banned and  restraining order sent.  Their in game assets ( i.e. houses, items, gold etc) would be seized and sold through the UO in game Store for modest prices.  


    3) talk to Richard Garriott and Starr Long about working with the team on the old code to get bugs and broken things repaired.


    I do believe with some work and strong leadership UO could once again become a viable online game.
    On 1, some people raise points this would be hard to execute.  One angle is are these sites even paying taxes (e.g. to the IRS or other tax authorities) on these activities?  Are these sites using schemes to stay under the radar of tax authorities?  Some may ask for strange payment options like friends and family that seem pretty fishy.  Also, are these sites facilitating out of country transfers of goods and services that run afoul of US treasury?  Is cheap labor from other countries being exploited to "farm" for resources that are sold in the US or elsewhere?  I'd imagine a corporate entity like EA's legal department would have to look closely at whether EA is somehow facilitating some of this?  I can guess some changes might happen.  Food for thought.

    On 3, it seems pretty unlikely you'll get a re-write, as some suggest.  A re-write would probably be UO2.  More likely is getting a team to take a dedicated "time-out" to fix bugs.  If you bring Garriot or others in, that seems more likely a way to get some ideas in for new content.  Maybe they'd consult.  On the other hand, seems like the players themselves could suggest plenty of things.  I have to wonder if elements of the front-end / back end could be open-sourced, to allow this type of contribution.


  • SoldahouseSoldahouse Posts: 103
    I think the leaders of uo should find a way to shut down all the fake UOs out there. In game last night 2 people talking in chat about another server they play and how much better it was than the real UO.

    I have heard and meet a few players that have got scammed trying to buy stuff with real $ and i think its just sad. I really wish those scammers didnt play uo.
    I have been trying to buy a castle on Atlantic for gold and just no luck, but if i wanted to spend real $ then i could of had one months ago. Maybe as a gold sink UO could sell me one for 20P.

    I dont do the real money trading but i always thought it was neat that my stuff was worth real money.  I understand time is money and its easy to pay someone for items that take forever to get. I dont have a problem with anyone that wants to pay real $ for in game items , just wish there wasnt the scammers. Also wish the ones that want to sell a castle for real would sell them for in game gold. 

    I guess the leaders of UO should try to shut down fake UOs, ban the scammers, sell me a castle for gold, make keeps and castles customizable, also keep our game going while having fun. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,472
    I think the leaders of uo should find a way to shut down all the fake UOs out there. In game last night 2 people talking in chat about another server they play and how much better it was than the real UO.

    I have heard and meet a few players that have got scammed trying to buy stuff with real $ and i think its just sad. I really wish those scammers didnt play uo.
    I have been trying to buy a castle on Atlantic for gold and just no luck, but if i wanted to spend real $ then i could of had one months ago. Maybe as a gold sink UO could sell me one for 20P.

    I dont do the real money trading but i always thought it was neat that my stuff was worth real money.  I understand time is money and its easy to pay someone for items that take forever to get. I dont have a problem with anyone that wants to pay real $ for in game items , just wish there wasnt the scammers. Also wish the ones that want to sell a castle for real would sell them for in game gold. 

    I guess the leaders of UO should try to shut down fake UOs, ban the scammers, sell me a castle for gold, make keeps and castles customizable, also keep our game going while having fun. 
    I have been trying to buy a castle on Atlantic for gold and just no luck, but if i wanted to spend real $ then i could of had one months ago. Maybe as a gold sink UO could sell me one for 20P.
    If one is wanting a Castle for the Looks, then I have no argument and not much can be done if there is not the physical space on a Shard for too many Castles to be placed..... placing spots are finite and, unortunately, there is only so many Castles that can fit on a Shard....

    BUT, if someone needs a Castle for the maxed out lockdowns and storage space, well, THEN perhaps @Mesanna , @Bleak , @Kyronix "could" do something if they wanted to....

    They could give the ability to "increase" even a small House storage capacity to that of a Castle if one wanted to, by purchasing in game, with UO gold (would work as a gold sink), storage increases to max out ANY building footprint to that of a Castle...

    That is, someone with a small Hut, if they purchased all of the storage increases, could well stuff in it as much items as someone can do in a Castle....

    This way, lots and lots of players could still have the storage space of a Castle even if they owned a smaller footprint house....

    Could the Developers please kindly give us this ability ?

    It would also work as a gold sink whereas players purchasing the storage upgrades with in game gold would see it taken out of the game !!
  • MargeMarge Posts: 501
    I think the leaders of uo should find a way to shut down all the fake UOs out there. In game last night 2 people talking in chat about another server they play and how much better it was than the real UO.

    Kinda funny, I read this then go to Atlanta and first thing I see at a moongate is a book. I opened it and it was someone recruiting for their guild on a free shard.
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