DEAR DEVELOPERS..... can we please have next Year's Arc be focused on CRAFTING and Crafters ?

poppspopps Posts: 3,904
edited October 2019 in General Discussions
Since the end of the Year is approaching, I assume that the Ultima Online Developers might be discussing on what to Focus next Year's Ultima Online's Global Arc....

May I humbly make a suggestion ?

Since the drops of Legendary Items, Crafting, which was a LEADING gameplay content in Ultima Online, has gone the way of the Dodo..... unfortunately.....

There is hardly any need to work with crafting, saved for Luck suit and some special Weapons' Imbuing....

Yet, Crafting has always been one of the driving forces in Ultima Online and this, since its beginning....

Could we please hope in a serious Crafting comeback of Crafting in next Year's Arc ?

NOTE : Please, PLEASE, do NOT simplify the current complexity of Crafting as it is in Ultima Online. Leave it as complex or, possibly, even MORE complex as it is to Craft in Ultima Online.

Why am I saying so ?

Because :

(1) - First and Foremost I would NOT want Crafters to be used as mere "Mules" in support of Fighting Characters. I want Characters to need the time and effort necessary to be MAIN characters to be played for those players who actually enjoy Crafting and want Crafters to be their MAIN character to play in Ultima Online.

(2) - Making Crafting a complex and time consuming activity in Ultima Online, this would be the rightfull compensation, to my opinion, to the benefits that it would provide (Risk vs. Reward). Since Crafting obviously is a non dangerous activity, its "high"Risks need to come in the form of complexity to learn all of the ins and outs of Crafting and get through it, as well as of time invested in that activity towards the Rewards that it may provide to the Crafter.

Making Crafting an "easy" and "quick" enterprise to manage, I am much afraid, would make it more likely to see Crafters used as Mules in mere support of fighting characters rather then be used as genuine, MAIN characters to be played with the rightfull investment of study and work time which I think they deserve and should take.

Only a complicated, much study needing Crafting mechanics as well as investment of time in Crafting processes, I think would make Crafting characters be only used by those players who actually WANT to play a Crafter as their MAIN character, and not use a Crafter character as merely a "Mule" in support of their other Fighting characters....

Thank you very much.
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Comments

  • MargeMarge Posts: 720
    Yes this is just what uo crafting needs - more complexity!  *ROLLEYES* *please note the sarcasm*

    I have yet to make head or tails of the refinements - or as I call them the clean up point givers.
    And if you don't think crafting is already time consuming you have yet to make a luck suit or gorgon lenses.

  • poppspopps Posts: 3,904
    edited October 2019
    Marge said:
    Yes this is just what uo crafting needs - more complexity!  *ROLLEYES* *please note the sarcasm*

    I have yet to make head or tails of the refinements - or as I call them the clean up point givers.
    And if you don't think crafting is already time consuming you have yet to make a luck suit or gorgon lenses.

    Do we want to see Crafters being used a mere Mules in support of fighting "main" characters ?

    I sure hope NOT !!

    The ONLY way, to my opinion, to dissuade most players who do not see Crafting as their "main" occupation in Ultima Online, is to make it extremely complex, difficult to Master (i.e. needing much time to study and learn and absorb it...) and very time consuming to be processed.

    This way, ONLY those players who truly want to play a Crafter in Ultima Online as their MAIN playing character will want to take the work, study, time and dedication that it needs to play it....

    All other players, who mainly use Fighting as their leading occupation in Ultima Online, might not want to bother with the complexities of Crafting and time it takes, althougether, and prefer to call Crafters' hired services as they need them.....

    Which would then give to Crafters in Ultima Online a reason and a way to exist on their own, as MAIN played characters.....

    I think it a NECESSITY if we want Crafting and Crafters to be played as MAIN Characters and not as mere "Mules" in support of Fighting "Main" characters.....
  • MissEMissE Posts: 776
    I ALREADY play my crafters as much as my other 'main' characters so in that respect I don't have a 'main'.  I want my crafter to support my other 'mains'. 

    My crafters are there to support my whole game play style from running my shops to my fighting characters.  If yours currently isn't then I guess you do not play the crafter properly.

    I do NOT want more complexity put into crafting, more stuff to craft, SURE, but definitely NOT More complex.  In fact a lot of crafting needs to be more simplified rather than making it more complex.  Mucking around with reforging and all that rigmarole is already the biggest pain in the butt, and as for refinements the less said the better.

    The last thing UO needs is more complexity in crafting.

    I have 2 main crafters on two separate accounts and cover all trades.  These two characters do NOT leave town. I don't want them to leave town, and they can make ANYTHING.

    I have another two characters dedicated to gathering for my crafter.  ie does fishing, lumberjacking, mining. 

    I then run across three accounts 3 tamers, 3 mystic/mages, 3 archers, 2 sampires, 3 thieves and a bard. With a few other characters a mix of various skills. 


    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,904
    edited October 2019
    MissE said:
    I ALREADY play my crafters as much as my other 'main' characters so in that respect I don't have a 'main'.  I want my crafter to support my other 'mains'. 

    My crafters are there to support my whole game play style from running my shops to my fighting characters.  If yours currently isn't then I guess you do not play the crafter properly.

    I do NOT want more complexity put into crafting, more stuff to craft, SURE, but definitely NOT More complex.  In fact a lot of crafting needs to be more simplified rather than making it more complex.  Mucking around with reforging and all that rigmarole is already the biggest pain in the butt, and as for refinements the less said the better.

    The last thing UO needs is more complexity in crafting.

    I have 2 main crafters on two separate accounts and cover all trades.  These two characters do NOT leave town. I don't want them to leave town, and they can make ANYTHING.

    I have another two characters dedicated to gathering for my crafter.  ie does fishing, lumberjacking, mining. 

    I then run across three accounts 3 tamers, 3 mystic/mages, 3 archers, 2 sampires, 3 thieves and a bard. With a few other characters a mix of various skills. 


    In fact a lot of crafting needs to be more simplified rather than making it more complex.
    An astounding and loud NO to that !!

    If Crafting gets more simplified, then what will stop players who mainly fight to just raise their Crafters and be "self-sufficient" in their Crafting needs WITHOUT having to rely on "external" Crafters as "hired services" for their Crafting needs ?

    AT LEAST, if Crafting is kept complex, time consuming and difficult to be learned and Mastered, most mainly fighting players will not want to bother with it and invest time in Crafting and, therefore, will need to rely on external Crafters hired for their services....

    And this, WILL bring work and gameplay to DEDICATED Crafters in Ultima Online....

    Making Crafting more simplified would KILL Crafting as a dedicated form of gameplay, to my opinion.

    Most if not all players, at that point, would just train up a Crafter and become totally self-sufficient for all of their crafting needs not needing to rely on other players, who instead would like to play a Crafter as their MAIN playing character in Ultima Online.

    I have no doubts on that, personally. 

    Make Crafting more simplified and easier would mean the END of Crafting in Ultima Online as a DEDICATED and main occupation and profession for players in Ultima Online.

    We would only see pretty much any and all Crafters be then used as mere "Mules" from players in support of their "main" Fighting characters....

    No thank you.

    I have 2 main crafters on two separate accounts and cover all trades.  These two characters do NOT leave town. I don't want them to leave town, and they can make ANYTHING.

    I have another two characters dedicated to gathering for my crafter.  ie does fishing, lumberjacking, mining. 

    I then run across three accounts 3 tamers, 3 mystic/mages, 3 archers, 2 sampires, 3 thieves and a bard. With a few other characters a mix of various skills. 

    Question.
    Do you need to rely on "OTHER" Crafters' players in Ultima Online for your needs ?

    Other then rarely and seldomly, or when you "do not feel like" to bother with your crafting needs, I need to imagine, with that Team you got, that you are pretty much "self-sufficient" in all of your Crafting needs.

    Is that so, is my question ?

    If the answer is yes, as I imagine, don't you "perhaps", just perhaps think that this self-sufficiency might be a BAD thing overall for Ultima Online because it reduces interaction among players and, most importantly, the ability for players who might want to play a Crafter as a "MAIN" played character in Ultima Online to be able to support their gameplay ?

    Why would anyone want to hire a dedicated Crafter if they could be easily "self-sufficient" in any and all of their crafting needs and thus not need to hire other players ?

    If Crafting was to instead be difficult, complex to Learn, requiring much study and time dedicated and invested in it, OF COURSE, is my thinking, that ONLY (or mostly) those UO Players REALLY wanting to play a Crafter in Ultima Online as their "Main" Character would want to bother with any and all of that....

    Most other players, mainly interested in Fighting in Ultima Online, is my thinking, would not want to bother will all of the complexities and time necessary for Crafting and would therefore resort to "other" players playing Crafters' as their Mains, for their whatever crafting needs....

    THIS is, to my opinion, the way to see Crafting prosper and thrive in Ultima Online again.... and have the Profession of being a Crafter be once again noblified and made a wanted and important one....

    That is at least how I see it.
  • MargeMarge Posts: 720
    Anyone that wants to play a crafter as their main toon already does just that. Making a class more complicated would be the absolute worst thing to do if you are wanting to bring on more crafters.
    I personally gave up making armor when the reforging mess came out. I just wait til I find a piece on a monster's loot to make my suits even though I have 120 tailor, smith, and imbuer.

    I feel pretty safe stating you are the only person who would want the crafting system to become even more complicated and convoluted than it already is today.
     
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,321
    The last enhancement to crafting was the expansion of the bod system. I don't really do them myself - because I find the whole thing too darn complicated. 
    The Artisan Festival is just about to kick off for this year, I suggest you get involved in that.

    I've done RL crafting: dressmaking, crochet, knitting, tatting, soft toy making. None of them were really complicated. 

    I'm inclined to think that before you ask the developers to change something on this scale you find out how much support you have among the players, if any.
  • No more complexity in crafting please. Count the numbers of receipts. Then the steps to get resources. Craft, Reforge, imbue, enhance, refine are enough steps.

  • JollyJadeJollyJade Posts: 578
    The last complex thing added I remember where refinements. Everybody using them tells Kyronix it's good stuff. All three of them. Totally worth the couple of weeks effort.

    From all past experience, I rather vote to not have it touched at all.
    Just a troll who got told by lesser trolls (moderator classification)
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    @popps suggestion... just no.

    I’m pretty happy with the balance and direction of looting vs crafting ingame right now.

    Looting pretty much rules combat armor.

    Crafting rules luck suits and weapons.

    Both get involved with artifacts through drops and recipes.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Crafters have always been support chars (IE Mules) to the other classes and was the first char most players made along with a warrior class to get things started.

    YES Crafting needs a MAJOR boost to bring it back to it former glory.

    NO, NO, NO Crafting DOES NOT need to become more complex in fact it needs to be made easier and more stream lined.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,904
    Marge said:
    Anyone that wants to play a crafter as their main toon already does just that. Making a class more complicated would be the absolute worst thing to do if you are wanting to bring on more crafters.
    I personally gave up making armor when the reforging mess came out. I just wait til I find a piece on a monster's loot to make my suits even though I have 120 tailor, smith, and imbuer.

    I feel pretty safe stating you are the only person who would want the crafting system to become even more complicated and convoluted than it already is today.
     
    Just please, explain to me, "if" crafting was more simplified, why on earth any player would want to hire a Crafter in the game for their needs and not just have one themselves, to be self-sufficient on any and all of their Crafting needs in Ultima Online....

    It is PRECISELY the complexity of Crafting, the learning of it, the time it takes for all of that, that deters al those players interested more in Fighting to stay away from it, on average....

    But if Crafting was revamped, giving to crafters the ability to "compete" with Legendary items looted from fighting, AND crafting was also simplified, made simple, WHY ON EARTH should not any and all players just get their own, personal Crafter and never need to hire a dedicated one in Ultima Online ?

    Making Crafting more simple and easier to learn, Master and manage would only KILL Crafting in Ultima Online, to my opinion...... killing it, in the sense of a "dedicated" MAIN playing Profession....

    Who would need to hire other players' Crafters when they could have one of their own to be self-sufficient, especially if Crafting was made more simple and less time consuming to manage ?

    I am sorry, but I do not have doubts, Crafting MUST stay complex, hard to Learn, manage and work with..... only in this way it will be possible to permit players who want to be dedicated to it to be able to, and have customers actually looking for their services in the game....

    This, particularly considering that most crafting resources need fighting to be gathered.... but since Crafters are no fighters, HOW would a non-fighting Crafter be able to "afford" the purchase of crafting ingredients from Fighters if then fighters, thanking to a more simplified and easier Crafting to manage and work will, for the most part, have Crafting characters of their own ?

    How would "dedicated" Crafters be able to earn gold in Ultima Online to then be able to afford purchasing resources from fighters if fighters will not need to pay Crafters for their services since most fighters would have Crafters of their own and would be self-sufficient in all of their crafting needs ?


    No thanks.

    Crafting NEEDS to be complicated, much difficult to be learnt and mastered and time consuming to be processed.

    Only in this way it would be possible to deter the "casual" Crafter away and only permit to players who REALLY want to play Crafters as their Mains, to be "THE" Crafting Resource in Ultima Online to be hired for any and all crafting needs....

    This, ESPECIALLY if Crafting will get a revamp and Crafted items will be given same quality as Legendary "drop" items.....

    That is at least the way I see it.
  • Wow, a poops thread I can actually agree with, times are a changing.

    More complexity, more power and more time to crafting!

    You don't like it? Then you don't appreciate the process and craft.  I 'mAiN a CrAfTeR, I enjoy that the suits I make take weeks, tons of different materials and layers of processes to complete.  Pride of accomplishment for the effort, adventure of scouring the world for different resources and appreciation for the time I spent gathering all the knowledge to do so.

    If you craft to support your other characters, yeah you aren't into it and don't want it.

    I have characters to support and test my crafters.  I am into it.

  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    Wow, a poops thread I can actually agree with, times are a changing.

    More complexity, more power and more time to crafting!

    You don't like it? Then you don't appreciate the process and craft.  I 'mAiN a CrAfTeR, I enjoy that the suits I make take weeks, tons of different materials and layers of processes to complete.  Pride of accomplishment for the effort, adventure of scouring the world for different resources and appreciation for the time I spent gathering all the knowledge to do so.

    If you craft to support your other characters, yeah you aren't into it and don't want it.

    I have characters to support and test my crafters.  I am into it.

    You forgot to use your sarcasm font! 
  • In my opinion a game should be able to playable by a person with common skills. No need of a doctor in crafting.
    Sure crafting should be based on knowledge, but there is a difference between Dr. Smith and a player which wants to have fun.
    The last time I ordered a crafter is 10 years ago. I train different people to build suits that they can have their own success.
    As another one stated, crafting today is for luck armor and weapons..... If you are looking for outfits.
    In most types of uses the balance is OK. IMHO no need to spend rare development time on it.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,974
    edited October 2019
    @popps ; Can you show us a suit that you have made from crafting?  I can show you suits or pieces that I have made and use.

    All of my toons wear crafted jewelry and use crafted weapons.

    Can you show me your looted Dexxer suit?  Does it have 210 stamina and decent strength?
    My crafted pieces make mine have that.

    Again you are asking to change something you know little about.  Show me some of your suits to prove me wrong.

    Crafting has a place. 120 more imbuing points and another stat would make crafted suits almost as good as what we can find on items now.  Too bad you do not know this.

    There is enough to do in crafting now.  You can play 4 hours a day on your crafter if you choose.

    Too bad you do not know how they work.  Do what someone said above, participate in the Artisan Festival this year.

    IMO crafting is already too hard for you since you do not know how it works.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    Pawain said:
    @ popps  Can you show us a suit that you have made from crafting?  I can show you suits or pieces that I have made and use.

    All of my toons wear crafted jewelry and use crafted weapons.

    Can you show me your looted Dexxer suit?  Does it have 210 stamina and decent strength?
    My crafted pieces make mine have that.

    Again you are asking to change something you know little about.  Show me some of your suits to prove me wrong.

    Crafting has a place. 120 more imbuing points and another stat would make crafted suits almost as good as what we can find on items now.  Too bad you do not know this.

    There is enough to do in crafting now.  You can play 4 hours a day on your crafter if you choose.

    Too bad you do not know how they work.  Do what someone said above, participate in the Artisan Festival this year.

    IMO crafting is already too hard for you since you do not know how it works.
    Honestly they could balance much of crafted pieces if they would bump the base resists on crafting materials to produce the kinds of resists on basic legendary pieces when crafted with arms lore.  Then it would be super easy to have crafted suits (imbued or reforged) with 5 additional mods on each piece without worrying about resists as a mod.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,974
    edited October 2019
    Exactly. 
     A 5 to 10 point boost to base resists would be great for Reforging.  Adding one more property to Imbuing would make imbuing competitive.

     A lot better approach than making crafting difficult.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • ActionEllyActionElly Posts: 156
    edited October 2019
    popps said:
    Marge said:
    Anyone that wants to play a crafter as their main toon already does just that. Making a class more complicated would be the absolute worst thing to do if you are wanting to bring on more crafters.
    I personally gave up making armor when the reforging mess came out. I just wait til I find a piece on a monster's loot to make my suits even though I have 120 tailor, smith, and imbuer.

    I feel pretty safe stating you are the only person who would want the crafting system to become even more complicated and convoluted than it already is today.
     
    Just please, explain to me, "if" crafting was more simplified, why on earth any player would want to hire a Crafter in the game for their needs and not just have one themselves, to be self-sufficient on any and all of their Crafting needs in Ultima Online....

    It is PRECISELY the complexity of Crafting, the learning of it, the time it takes for all of that, that deters al those players interested more in Fighting to stay away from it, on average....

    But if Crafting was revamped, giving to crafters the ability to "compete" with Legendary items looted from fighting, AND crafting was also simplified, made simple, WHY ON EARTH should not any and all players just get their own, personal Crafter and never need to hire a dedicated one in Ultima Online ?

    Making Crafting more simple and easier to learn, Master and manage would only KILL Crafting in Ultima Online, to my opinion...... killing it, in the sense of a "dedicated" MAIN playing Profession....

    Who would need to hire other players' Crafters when they could have one of their own to be self-sufficient, especially if Crafting was made more simple and less time consuming to manage ?

    I am sorry, but I do not have doubts, Crafting MUST stay complex, hard to Learn, manage and work with..... only in this way it will be possible to permit players who want to be dedicated to it to be able to, and have customers actually looking for their services in the game....

    This, particularly considering that most crafting resources need fighting to be gathered.... but since Crafters are no fighters, HOW would a non-fighting Crafter be able to "afford" the purchase of crafting ingredients from Fighters if then fighters, thanking to a more simplified and easier Crafting to manage and work will, for the most part, have Crafting characters of their own ?

    How would "dedicated" Crafters be able to earn gold in Ultima Online to then be able to afford purchasing resources from fighters if fighters will not need to pay Crafters for their services since most fighters would have Crafters of their own and would be self-sufficient in all of their crafting needs ?


    No thanks.

    Crafting NEEDS to be complicated, much difficult to be learnt and mastered and time consuming to be processed.

    Only in this way it would be possible to deter the "casual" Crafter away and only permit to players who REALLY want to play Crafters as their Mains, to be "THE" Crafting Resource in Ultima Online to be hired for any and all crafting needs....

    This, ESPECIALLY if Crafting will get a revamp and Crafted items will be given same quality as Legendary "drop" items.....

    That is at least the way I see it.
    No one is going to hire a crafter and no change you make will create that in UO. Most of us have at the least 2 accounts, and enjoy creating our own stuff for our houses/characters.

    Making crafting more complex will drive players away from the game, it's one of the most relaxing and enjoying things UO offers.

    I speak for myself, but I do believe there's a lot of people that love to log in, craft, organize and do vendors. It's been that way for 20 years. If anything it should be more streamlined and simplified.

    Getting good loot is very important to the game, else why would anyone do any hunting at all? There has to be some shiny stuff in there and seeing a Legendary tag does that.

    Crafting DOESN'T need to be complicated, it just needs to stay competitive and I think they're doing that with the recipes that allow you to convert the awesome drops you get. 

    Reskinning the cool drops is definitely a plus for smiths and tailors since you must be 120 to recraft them.

    Honestly, I think we should see more stuff like this.








  • MargeMarge Posts: 720
    "Just please, explain to me, "if" crafting was more simplified, why on earth any player would want to hire a Crafter in the game for their needs and not just have one themselves, to be self-sufficient on any and all of their Crafting needs in Ultima Online...."

    Pretty sure about 98% or more of UO players have crafters and are self sufficient already.

    I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for doing something on these boards I have never seen before - everyone here for once has the same opinion and agrees with each other - Complicating Crafting further is a terrible idea. There will be snow this year in South Louisiana - hell has frozen over! :D
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,904
    Wow, a poops thread I can actually agree with, times are a changing.

    More complexity, more power and more time to crafting!

    You don't like it? Then you don't appreciate the process and craft.  I 'mAiN a CrAfTeR, I enjoy that the suits I make take weeks, tons of different materials and layers of processes to complete.  Pride of accomplishment for the effort, adventure of scouring the world for different resources and appreciation for the time I spent gathering all the knowledge to do so.

    If you craft to support your other characters, yeah you aren't into it and don't want it.

    I have characters to support and test my crafters.  I am into it.

    I wished we could have the LIKE function on these Forums....
  • SlissSliss Posts: 282
    I think crafting is better in UO than in most other MMOs. I definitely do not want it simplified. Right now there is actual player skill/knowledge necessary for crafting. In most other games, the only thing that matters if getting the materials. Crafting itself is just mindless clicking one or two buttons. I like UO way better. 
    Could crafting be better? Yes. It could also be or get worse. Thus, I'd vote for it to be left alone and to concentrate on things that are really broken.
  • KirthagKirthag Posts: 541
    edited October 2019
    I'm with Sliss on this... it was UO's crafting system that really attracted me to the game.

    Originally, Kirthag was a tailor on ATL - until some RPing orc rez-killed her by the Empath Abbey (pre-T2A). Kirthag became a fighter then and has been since. She is my main and always will be.

    However, my most enjoyable character is Tandy (previously named Minerva) - my crafter/gatherer.
    Soulstones really helped me to enjoy her more. When she's done with gathering, swap out that skill for another of the crafting ones, and make all kinds of stuff. My goal with Tandy is to have her max all crafting skills and be able to make anything and everything a crafter can. She would sit at various public forges, repairing and crafting armor and weapons for people. She used to make luck suits and give them away to young ones. She fills BoDs, and is currently learning to cook cakes. :D

    Tandy became a house decorator, decorating some of the most prominent castles and homes of Napa with her crafted furniture. Eventually, this lead to house designs and even castle/keep masonry gigs. Tandy is my most versatile character, the one who gets the most game-time now and manages all of my vendors. If Tandy is in-game, she is either building, designing, or working on items for sale and giving away - and that is a lot of the time.

    Over the years, my "main" toon Kirthag gets less and less time in the game - yet Tandy gets more and more. 

    But there is one rub.

    Making crafted suits worth selling is horribly confusing. I thought I was pretty good at figuring out things, but balancing between Imbuing and Refinements, and when to do which to what to produce something worthwhile.... ugh. Looking at all the loots I gather to determine if something should be "enhanced" in some way, or simply recycled is very time consuming - and probably why Kirthag doesn't go hunting as much anymore. Just too much to deal with and too much to think about and calculate. The last suit officially made by Tandy (all pieces) took over 5 months to do because of the maths and research and gathering involved - and I forgot how she did it. For those that still make full suits - I commend you.

    Now, adding Masteries to certain crafting skills for really super-duper crafting WITHOUT the need of imbuments or refinements would be something I could get behind - and before everyone starts whimpering "not another mastery" - it is a system already in place and would probably require the least amount of tinkering to add into only CERTAIN crafting skills. Apply mastery to blah skill, add some uber high-level recipes in some crafty way to get, add mastery-level rewards for blah skill (title, etc.) and be done with it. Some love, some boost, and some credible items that can only be crafted by the masters! 

    Certain items (Runed Switch, amongst others) takes a combination of skills to make. Perhaps allowing items like that would give crafters more of a purpose. 

    One thing that really made me excited about another RG game (SotA) was the promise of "discoverable recipes" - meaning players could discover how to craft something, then have the ability to teach others how to craft it. So like, rather than doing quests to earn a recipe, maybe players would attempt a "create a new recipe" process... however, this would be a separately coded system that only does checks for certain things in the current skill system. (just brainstorming)

    Or maybe setting up an apprentice/master relationship. THAT would be an interesting way to boost crafting gameplay - maybe the only way to attain mastery is to have trained so many apprentices! Add masteries, and only masters could train a single apprentice crafter to learn certain recipes? Needs thought is just a brainstorm - but I think this could be something new that would tie in with so many other systems without tinkering too much with the base skill codework.

    Totally reworking the existing crafting system(s) - I would avoid that at all costs. These are some of the oldest systems in the game... think about that for a moment before asking for them to be messed with. 


  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    edited October 2019
    Pawain said:
    @ popps  Can you show us a suit that you have made from crafting?  I can show you suits or pieces that I have made and use.

    All of my toons wear crafted jewelry and use crafted weapons.

    Can you show me your looted Dexxer suit?  Does it have 210 stamina and decent strength?
    My crafted pieces make mine have that.

    Again you are asking to change something you know little about.  Show me some of your suits to prove me wrong.

    Crafting has a place. 120 more imbuing points and another stat would make crafted suits almost as good as what we can find on items now.  Too bad you do not know this.

    There is enough to do in crafting now.  You can play 4 hours a day on your crafter if you choose.

    Too bad you do not know how they work.  Do what someone said above, participate in the Artisan Festival this year.

    IMO crafting is already too hard for you since you do not know how it works.
    hotlinks removed by Mariah
  • MissEMissE Posts: 776
    The problem with crafting now is to do the super suits you need to pay real life dollars for that tool that stops breaking on enhancing.  The minute they did that and made it next to impossible to craft the uber suits without it was when I stopped with making those type of suits.   Now I do basic training suits for sale and ONLY do any high end suit building for my own characters.  Even then I don't normally bother as I have enough legendary and major/greater arti pieces to last me a long time.

    Sadly when you ask for complicated in this game you end up with crap like that that forces you to fork out more money to fully get the benefit of crafting in this paid SUBSCRIPTION game.

    We do not need crafting to me more complicated, we need it to be more worthwhile with new things to craft and a rework of existing recipes to make them more useful.  With imbuing, stuff like stitchers mittens and 99% of the ML recipes became redundant.  

    You saw what happened when they made crafting 'complicated'.  Look at the stuff we had to do to craft the cannon stuff, wasn't that just so much fun?  NO IT WASN'T so much so that they had to uncomplicate it due to continuous complaints. 

    There is NO WAY that anyone is gonna go back to 'hiring' a smith or tailor to make stuff or repair stuff, ,not with 7 char slots per account.  You forget when that was the case there were 1000's more players and to gm a skill too over a year. 

    It took me a year to gm magery back in the early 000's.  Took me about the same to get to gm smith/tailor, times have changed, and people are already self sufficient.


    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,904
    Marge said:
    "Just please, explain to me, "if" crafting was more simplified, why on earth any player would want to hire a Crafter in the game for their needs and not just have one themselves, to be self-sufficient on any and all of their Crafting needs in Ultima Online...."

    Pretty sure about 98% or more of UO players have crafters and are self sufficient already.

    I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for doing something on these boards I have never seen before - everyone here for once has the same opinion and agrees with each other - Complicating Crafting further is a terrible idea. There will be snow this year in South Louisiana - hell has frozen over! :D
    Pretty sure about 98% or more of UO players have crafters and are self sufficient already. 
    So, if 98% "or more" of Ultima Online players have Crafters and are self sufficient, don't we then need to realize that, BECAUSE OF THIS SELF-SUFFICIENCY, these 98% "or more" or players will not interact with other players playing a Crafter character as their "Main" ?

    That is, that Crafters, as a character, is NOT a viable character to be played as a Main character ?

    WHEN do players call out for "Crafting Services" ?

    Ain't this "external" Crafting Service being seeked pretty much for those Suits being "difficult to be crafted" like Luck Suits or the like ?

    Therefore, how can we not conclude that, PRECISELY when Crafting becomes complicated, complex, time consuming, it is THEN, that players who do not want to bother investing time and efforts in "learning" the "HOW TO" more advanced Crafting, decide not to bother with any of that and go to seek out the hired services of other players more knowledged and experienced into Crafting ?

    That is, what my point is......

    Which it is, that if we want to have Crafting as a viable MAIN profession in Ultima Online were some players not interested in investing the time and effort that it takes to learn and Master it, as well as process it to produce items, will go out to seek "external", hired Crafting Services for their needs.

    And the ONLY one way to get this achieved, to my opinion, is to have a Crafting mechanics that was complex, require a significative EFFORT to be learned, and the Crafting processes require a significant investment of time.

    How much time does a Fighter put into getting that good drop when "farming" a given Boss ?

    For a Crafter, it should not be any different.... the entire process to get a good item should take effort, SKILL (learning the complexities of the "how to" produce that given, advanced, high end item....) and time.

    Crafting, if at all, should be made MORE complex, NOT simplified.....

    This, if we want to make Crafting a truly viable MAIN occupacy in Ultima Online as a Profession and not a mere "Mule" character in support of other fighting characters that are the "mains"....
  • MargeMarge Posts: 720
    As I (and Pawain among others) have said before you must have not made suit before if you don't think they are time consuming and complicated. Go make a few suits and come back in three months or more and tell us how non time consuming it is.

    Make crafting anymore complicated and people will not hire crafters; they will simply farm bosses for the perfect loot.

    Any character can be your MAIN character if it is the one you play and enjoy the most. Stop trying a different class of character every day then screaming for the developers to change it. Stick to a character for a few months, actually play it, and learn what they can do. If it's not to your liking, change skills and try again.
  • Ezekiel_ZaneEzekiel_Zane Posts: 326
    edited October 2019

    I can guarantee this, if they don't improve crafting and instead make it more tedious and even less viable as an income than it already is, you can kiss my 14 accounts goodbye once-and-forever. 

    My crafter and merchant is pretty much the only reason I login anymore.

    I want two things.  To customize my own keep and castle and a bump to crafting.  I'm getting very tired of waiting for either one.

    For crafting I want;
    = a revamp of runic kits.  Keep it simple.  Up the charges and up the intensity and properties.
    = imbuing, up the max intensity and properties and add the ability to completely remove a property.
    = reforging, fix the combinations that mix mage properties with dexxer properties.
    = don't know enough about refinements.
    = resource gathering, improve efficiency without stupid maps only acquired by filling BODs.


  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 352
    After the treasure hunting "fix", you all better be careful what you wish for! 

    I'll admit that I am not a high seas fan, so this year was pretty disappointing for me. I don't think I could take next year with just crafting "fixes". 
  • I used to craft a lot suits and nowadays because the legendaries those days are over. Crafting nowadays is only for some luck suits or weapons and especific pvp bows. With the global nerf on legendaries and the fact that people were so "used" to the 14, 15 mods pieces, i also agree that they should bring back the crafting to the same level of those legendaries.
    * Give us the choice to add 2,3,4 more mods (sell in the game store a special tool for that)
    * give us a choice to replace an useless skill from a jewel and replace for other maybe.
    So many things can be done and I am sure 1/2 of those they can add to the store.
    But dont make more complex as it is now, crafting and imbuing, it is so time consuming.
    The Devs told us that "Soon" the new VVV system would be next in their to do list, why not take the same time ti implement the crafting.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,204
    I started as a crafter standing in Brit trying to make my name so i can sort of agree with popps that it should mean something but I'm not really wanting something overly complex.

    I also agree with the base resist boost. 

    The problem I mainly have is not being able to reach max swing with imbued gear. I spent a long time working a crafter and imbuer. 

    Loot should be better but crafted imbued gear should at least provide the basics so I can use any weapon I wish.
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