Perhaps the road to help repopulate Felucca might come from "killing" Ghost Cams and the likes ?
Some food for thought......
I always hear laments of how much Felucca is deserted, not populated and all that.
Yet, at least to my experience, I need to say that for
Years, decades, PvM players getting into Felucca have been very likely met with
getting killed first and talked after (saved a few exceptions) and then one gets surprised that hardly any PvM
player would want to show up in Felucca ?
The Reds that do not attack first and talk later, are quite a few, that at least I may have personally experienced....
Usually, what a Red does in Felucca when seeing a Blue, is attack and kill them outright before the PvM player can recall away...
With
this pattern of behaviour going on, over and over for Years, at least to
my thinking it is no wonders that hardly any PvM player would show up
in Felucca for anything....
What
I think that the Developers should have done YEARS ago, is to get rid of the ability
to use Ghost Cams or Hidden Characters used as Monitoring Cams in
Felucca to detect PvM players shouwing up at locations there.
For example, a few seconds after going Ghost an account should by default be logged off
and if that account logs back in it goes back off within seconds unless
that character gets resurrected.
And if the Server detects too many logs off and back in in a short time phrame, it should BLOCK that account's ability to log in for some hours....
That is, "something" to actually FOR REAL take away from players the ability to use Ghosts as characters to Monitor an Area for other players' activity....
Or, more simply, just make it so that a Ghost CANNOT detect ANYTHING in that area ?
Just the Environment and Healers or Shrines to resurrect. But it would not be able to see other characters NOR Monsters otherwise, it could guess from the changing of the spawn or Monsters' corpses on ground that a player is interacting with the area and still be good to work as a Camera....
More difficult it would be, with a character kept Hidden and working as a Monitoring Camera, reporting activity....
There
should be a way to also address this like after X time being hidden the
character gets Revealed by Monsters in the Area and is attacked or
whatever some other way that would make it not possible to use Hidden Characters to work as a Camera....
Definitively,
though, the ability of being AFK and, YET, be able to use either a
Ghost or a Hidden character as a Camera to see what goes on in places
"other" then those where the player is actively playing in, and now also using free
EJ accounts on top of everything else, is what has killed Felucca....
If
a player from Trammel has SUCH a high likeliness to get spotted because
of the ability for PvPers to have such Monitoring Cameras as active, then WHY
BOTHER getting into Felucca at all ?
Instead,
is my thiniking, "if" PvM players had a chance to "make it through" into Felucca while
not being so likely detectedby PvPers, "perhaps" they would start adventuring into Felucca more often thus helping repopulate it ?
Thus,
is my thinking, it could be worth as a change and effort from the Developers (and investment of resources and manpower) in order to try give a reason to PvM
players to more likely adventure into Felucca (because not so likely being able to get detected by PvPers) and, thus, little by
little repopulate it ?
Kill the Monitoring Cameras !!!
Just a thought........
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Ghost Cam usage is back to an all time high, this is true.
I would not really advise a solo player going to do a champ spawn for example, unless it is at a really quiet time. Or a shard you know to be really quiet.
It isn't just the ghost cams - Felucca itself is currently very active. We are scouting non stop ourselves, all the time I'm on, we have players scouting with stealthers, and reporting back on all the Spawns, including Roof, Exodus or Luna Mint for example - always good to know when a rival guild/target is at roof, or exodus - means we have a clear run, or we know we should be scouting.
Again, as with the 3rd party programs, it's got to the point, we are used to it, it's built into our play, you may as well embrace it.
We know where all the ghost cams are, we can chose to avoid them, or we deliberately go through them, if we are sending a message we want pvp at a certain spawn. This saves us having to shout out in general chat that we are spawning and want to be raided. The point is, we use them to our advantages, as part of our strategic thinking. If we want to avoid them, via our scouting info and knowing where other guilds are, we do, if we want to use them to be raided, we do. We rarely get it wrong.
Where does this leave blue pvmers coming from Trammel?
It's like anything, if you know the scene, the community, you will be guided better, if you don't, you will be easy pickings. Join one of the active spawning guilds to take part, be part of it, and know what is going on. Then you will have a much more entertaining game experience.
Whilst I am saying we can currenly live with 3rd party programs, and spawn cams, if the devs want to get rid of them, great of course. But personally - I would probably put my focus into upgrading PvP rewards, or giving us stronger pvp systems. You can fight a never ending eternal battle against cheating, and never really win- don't worry about that area for the moment, lets just aknowledge that is how it is. Put the effort into making the gameplay more attractive and fun, for the many players still doing it. If they are having fun and being rewarded, more will see this and join in.
By the way - one more point.
A huge reason pvmers do not stand a chance in Felucca, is they are wearing PvM suits.
PvPers are wearing PvP suits, and templates built for killing players.
Suit design could be overhauled tbh, so that it could contain enough properties to be effective in PvP and PvM - we would then need less suits, and in Felucca, you would be suited for the different scenario's you would encounter.
I get destroyed in seconds on my mage when I am in my PvM sdi suit, yet I am almost unkillable when I use my PvP suit and gear. {I personally prefer my PvM suit - it has more sdi, and mana to be casting more, whilst the PvP suit is more limited, but has massive survival and regen abilities}.
It is their time, their choice of how to use it in Ultima Online.
But using free, EJ Accounts a go-go as AFK Ghost Cams or Scripted Stealthing Characters to report what is going on in some area to THEN, and only THEN intervene with their PvP character ?
That NO.
This is clear AFK playing and, I would add, it HURTS Felucca density of population, overall because as soon as PvM players realize that they do not have a chance to NOT get spotted while getting into Felucca, WHY BOTHER?
This is why I am saying that, if the Developers are interested to bring some new life into Felucca, the VERY FIRST thing to approach is the ability for PvPers and their Guilds to have scripted Monitoring Cameras which they can use while doing ELSE and who will ring a bell requiring their attention only when activity is required in the area.
They want to Scout locations in Felucca ?
Fine, but they should use THEIR character and playing time on a paying account.
This way, at least, PvM players could "hope" not to get spotted because there is only "so much" Area that PvPers could monitor ACTIVELY in their playing time and using THEIR character AND paying account.
And, therefore, this "might" prompt more PvM players to perhaps want to try adventure in Felucca more.
That is at least the way I see it.
Not only Players who have trained themselves up for years into PvP of course have better skills at that as many PvMers, but they ALSO, thanking to the Monopoly and control of Powerscrolls, have had access to a wealth which only few PvMers may have at their disposal and this buys them, of course, the best items there are which, in an itemized game as UO is, comprise a LOT of the end result of winning or losing a fight....
It would be necessary to start on a clean slate, with these new items good for both PvP and PvM be easily accessible to ALL players where wealth would not matter in the ability to obtain them.
At that point, "perhaps" with same suits and gear PvM players "might" also decide to train themselves up in PvP and get into Felucca to face PvPers though, I am not sure of what the end results would be, most often....
I think it is too late now, too many Years have gone by and the split between PvM and PvP gameplays have been enduring for too long thus having 2 entirely "split up" types of gameplays.
Sure, it would be great if they could meet somewhere, I just am not sure how and where they could meet in a way that was to put them on an EQUAL FOOTING.....
My point being, that "if" Broadsword wants Felucca to get more populated and, thus, to think up a way to have more PvM players WANT to get into Felucca, then I think that the AFK ways to "monitor" areas in Felucca, be it with Ghost Cams or Hidden, Stealthing Characters perhaps scripted in their Scouting routines, should GO AWAY, in whatever way would solidly make them go away.
Besides, it REALLY IS, at least to my viewing, unfair advantage....
A PvPers or a Guild of PvPers can monitor, using free EJ Accounts a vast Area, even vaster if using scripted accounts having Scouting Routines and reporting to their master when they notice any change in the Spawn and all of this, with the actual live player doing else, whether in UO or in real life and intervening only when the Monitoring character detects anything worthy of being reported.
I imagine that AFK gameplay, worse if scripted, may be already against UO's TOS.
It is bad for Felucca as of course it does not leave a chance to PvM players "thinking" to get into it and, as a result, of course it leaves Felucca deserted.....
So, that's why I am saying that the ability to Monitor areas through Ghost Cams or Hidden/Stealthing characters, perhaps even scripted with Scouting Routines, should go away.
"Let the Reds have their Power Scrolls Trammies have so much, and they deserve some bright sopts too.In other words if you don't which to take the chance of getting killed then don't go to fel. If you need Power Scrolls then work the many spawns of bosses and raise the gold and buy it from the reds. "
Because PvPers do not have, for the most part, ALSO their PvM character AND hunt their Trammel items ON THEIR OWN thus, not needing to purchase from PvMers ?
While for Powerscrolls they have EXCLUSIVITY on their Monopoly and, thus, the abilty to set prices for them as high as they may wish, for PvM items that is NOT the same....
And this, clearly, because PvPers' players can ALSO well have PvM characters and use them to get their PvM items THEMSELVES without needing to purchase them from PvMers...
This, of course, inevitably reduces the ability for PvM players to be able to raise gold through hunting PvM items because of the much reduced request (since PvPers CAN hunt them on their own, if they wish so) and, as a consequence, they remain at a disadvantage when it comes to being able to afford the outrageous Powerscrolls prices asked because of their Monopoly due to their exclusivity in Felucca.
It is, at least to my viewing, the source of a great inbalance which may affect some players' desire to play Ultima Online....
This, because since the PvM items they can hunt fetch less, as compared to the TIME INVESTED to fetch Powerscrolls, they have to grind MORE as compared to a PvPer when it comes to Powerscrolls and this, coupled with their lower price, may "burn out" some players after a while who may have enough of so much grinding in order to be then able to afford those Powerscrolls prices.
And who loses at that point ?
Ultima Online that loses players' base....
Personally, I think it a VERY bad and inbalancing system because it screws up the economy inflating it beyond reason and forces PvM players into absurd grinds to then afford to purchase those Powerscrolls which PvP players can get in no time and with little effort.
It takes about half an hour to get 12 scrolls with Protection.
Compare what a PvMer can get, in terms of equivalent "UO wealth" in that same time frame...
Of course that then some player may get alienated from playing UO for too much grinding....
That is at least the way I see it.
It has been over a month now that I am back after years away, and I have been trying to find someone to go do Exodus with and only recently, after I posted a looking for groups I got told that some guild might be going to an an Event for it sometimes....
Unfortunately, it ain't like it used to be to find fellow players to do hunts with and when it comes to Felucca and Champ Spawns it gets even harder because as soon as a PvM Guild tries to do it it goes under Focus of PvP groups and it magnetizes an unusual higher number of PvPers going to address it....
Besides, I understand from talking to fellow players that it has been tried on some Shards several times over the course of time but it has never worked.
So, it easy nice talking but it is only talking, i am much afraid.... PvPers, I learned, simply do not WANT to let go their Powerscrolls' Monopoly and every attempt by PvM groups of players to try it inevitably gets addressed and countered.
And, I have been trying to argue, this Monopoly happens to be, is my thinking, BAD for Ultima Online as a whole because if further causes and fosters an outrageous inflation which, as a consequence, causes unusual and alienating grinding in many players out of the very selected group of those controlling the Poiwerscrolls availability.
Alienating grinding, which, in some players having enough of it, causes their quitting playing to Ultima Online and, therefore, worsens its shrinking of the players' base.
What might be good for PvPers, I think, happens to be bad for Ultima Online as a game and I think it should therefore be addressed for the better sake of Ultima Online.
That is at least how I see it.
Pvp players.... If you can even label them all as a group like that largely don't want powers scrolls to monopolize and make gold. More so that it's one of the few things that brings conflict to fel other that yew shenanigans and VvV towns.
Some "pvpers" just want to kill and grief, same goes for "pvmers" that scam in Luna, group labels suck and rarely account for their members.
Players imo need to realize if they want powerscrolls that badly, they might need to fight for them. If they're not worth fighting for then they aren't that valuable, are they?
I do it all the time, sometimes just me, sometimes with some haven newbies, lots of grey robes. It makes getting them all that much sweeter. If that emergent adventure isn't what you're after then I don't know why ultima is where you landed. Might be better of selling uo store tokens and buying scrolls if that's all you're after perhaps.
Also... To the ones complaint about all those ghosts and wraiths. Have you ever tried just talking to them? Not all of them are afk and some are great people and might actually help you, just throwing that out there from personal experience.
That said scripting is annoying, but it's been here since the beginning. Meh
- The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
- The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
- Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
- And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?
I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.I was just talking to an old time player about his coming back. He said he use to go about just doing his thing but if he got jumped it was "well lets get to it". You tell me does a player with that attitude have a chance? Would he in anyway enjoy the experience? As someone else said here he has his PvP gear and is dead meat in his PvM gear.
A game is only fun if you have a chance of winning. As it stands as was pointed here without spending more time than the average player is willing to he has no chance of winning. Not to mention learning what 3rd party programs to use, joining a guild whether he wants to or not and investing in gear that has no other use.
If that is your thing good for you but don't expect it of the average player.
We need to get over the idea that there will ever be "life" in fel ever again. If we get rid of the ghost cams we may see more people doing champs, but overall, most PvM players aren't going to do spawns anyway.
Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
But that is what has happened.... unfortunately.....
It has become a Monopoly held by a few players but affecting many others as I have been trying to explain.
And since an inflated economy brings prices up the roof and beyond, a Monopoly on Powerscrolls enables a few players with only a little investment of time (it takes 20 to 30 minutes to do a Spawn and collect 6+6 = 12 scrolls) they get far more wealth as a PvM player can ever put together in PvM facets during the same time.
Worse, EVEN IF that PvM players goes through extensive and alienating grinding to get that 1 good drop to then sell to make the gold to then afford the inflated Powerscrolls prices, chances are, that he/she will have a harder time to find a buyer since PvPers can ALSO have PvM characters and get their PvM items ON THEIR OWN, with no need to purchase them from PvM players....
And this, as I have been trying to explain, causes an inbalance with a larger chunk of players, the PvM players having to cope with extensive grinds in order to put together the gold to then afford those outtrageously priced Powerscrolls.... some players stand it, some others don't and what might they then do ?
Quit playing UO for getting burnt out from too excessive grind gamaplay....
And, I imagine, to loose player base does not help the well being of Ultima Online, does it ?
Some dislike the drama, chest bumping and chat talking that at times might come with it, some have a policy of not wanting to use cheats or hacks but, when meeting "some" PvPers, they get won because the other uses cheats or hacks and simply, choose not to deal with the issue althougether by giving up PvPing, some others just dislike the idea of fighting another human being etc. etc. etc.
There can be many reasons for not wanting to deal with PvP and different players may have different personal reasons.
I am afraid that it would not be enough because then Ghosts could detect the presence of another player in the area, even if not seeing their character, by seeing NPCs dropping dead all around the place.... clearly, someone (a character), even if not seen, is there affecting and interacting the spawn and the Ghost Cam would alert the PvP Master to intervene and come to the sight.
It would be necessary for the Ghost, as I said in my OP, to not be able to see ANYTHING but the Land and, of course, Wandering Healers for a res.
But then something should also be done for Characters not as Ghost and yet staying hidden, stealthing and thus being used via Scripts to Monitor an Area and warn the PvP Master in case they detect another players' presence in the Area.... as I mentioned in the OP.
It is their playing time and their spent subscription money and if they want to spend BOTH of them sitting at a Dungeon's Entrance door then be it.
I start to have problems when this can be done with "free" EJ Accounts and, worse, even AFK because with Scouting Scripts AND, even worser, using multiple of them at once....
I've seen them set up at the entrances too. The most popular spawns are legacy dungeons that anyone can get to using a corrupted portal. There's only 3 ways into T2A (legit forgot)?
From my standpoint the only options would be to boot inactive characters to a shrine after x time and auto boot ghosts upon login after x time. You could fix exorcism but that would be heavily abused in fights.
You people are fully aware this team loves them some grindy quests. Let's not push it too far.
Simplest solution is to make every dungeon area completely be considered champion areas, also include all entrances and exits from dungeons as well as T2A. Then after they are found and die they would get booted to shrines in 7 minutes. Make the scripters have to be on 24/7 to res and replace them and they'll stop using them cause itll get annoying to non stop res them.