If Luck Actually Works

Rocko · December 6

@Pawain ; PP is pre-patch? Not sure what FWW is....frenzied whirlwind?

Victim_Of_Siege · December 6

Rocko said:

@ Pawain PP is pre-patch? Not sure what FWW is....frenzied whirlwind?

Both are correct.

Mordeed · December 7

I've been using a Naja with FWW and PB , takes care of greater nests really quickly but have to split the mobs on the biggest nests
Still no mature and no more effigies for me

popps · December 7

Mordeed said:

I've been using a Naja with FWW and PB , takes care of greater nests really quickly but have to split the mobs on the biggest nests
Still no mature and no more effigies for me

Still no mature and no more effigies for me

It is ridicolous how hard it is to get a mature egg... regardless whether one tries with hidden chests, Nest Maps or the Matriarch...

Honestly, I do not understand why the Developers have not yet raised the odds to get one... I hear more and more players getting burnt out trying to get one and spending countless time and efforts in the process, all for nothing...

@Kyronix, perhaps the odds of getting a mature egg should be increased ?

Mordeed · December 7

I've heard people saying that putting a counter on players for a drop would cause massive lag issues, what about the vendor selling a buff in exchange for deco eggs that would increase drop chance untill you get a mature. The counter would be how many deco eggs you collect, they could make it a high amount like 600+

I understand the idea of having an Uber rare item in an event, but don't get why it had to be a tamers creature. I'm burnt out by it atm, I'm having a break by training up some existing pets and sorting out my paladin. And tbh I really don't care about the gold value or UO economy, I wanted one to train and use because my main is a tamer

Grimbeard · December 7

popps said:

Mordeed said:

I've been using a Naja with FWW and PB , takes care of greater nests really quickly but have to split the mobs on the biggest nests
Still no mature and no more effigies for me

Still no mature and no more effigies for me

It is ridicolous how hard it is to get a mature egg... regardless whether one tries with hidden chests, Nest Maps or the Matriarch...

Honestly, I do not understand why the Developers have not yet raised the odds to get one... I hear more and more players getting burnt out trying to get one and spending countless time and efforts in the process, all for nothing...

@ Kyronix, perhaps the odds of getting a mature egg should be increased ?

If you're playing as much as you say you've collected enough drops and new items to buy one..

Pawain · December 7

I have done the matriarch almost daily avg 6 hours a day. - 1 week. I have only 2 eggs.
Atlantic pops it every 15 to 20 mins now.

I have 72 skirts over 5k points that I can see I've used. That's how many Matriarchs I've done.
I doubt I could do that many on other shards.

I would say that is a low drop rate for a new pet that has nice intensity, healing, and new damage spread.

Knowing what I know now, the Hue 0 egg should have been the rareness of a smoldering tree from the Matriarch and be a drop choice. The 2 other colors stay the same. Using that metric, I would have 4 red dragons and 2 other. Which I think would be fair for the amount of time put in.

I do not know enough about eggs from Nests or Chests to speak on those.

Ahua · December 7

I've been training a tamer and trying to grasp the dynamics here... seems its not just the rarity, but the fact this pet seems one of the best in the game (correct me if I'm wrong)... if it was just deco, nobody would "burn out" but then again, perhaps people would say the event is not interesting and not be entertained, and since its the only event and temporary....

I don't envy having to juggle to this kind of quid pro quo.

on another note I've found it funny when someone took me to some of those hunts and I kept targeting people's pets thinking they were mobs. I think in any of those events, there are more umbrascale dragon pets than actual mobs spawning (lol)

pure chaos... personally I get a headache.

I know a player that does this all day long (retired) and he did get 5 of them... so they're out there.

He keeps wanting me to join in... but after 2-3 runs like that I'm overdosed for at least a week, even with the great loot I can't get elsewhere (sadly and very worryingly).

Legendary artifacts are now so common people let them decay on the corpses or drop them on the ground to help new players, who in turn will never find better loot in their whole gameplay experience. Why name them legendary in the first place?

Imagine doing over 200 runs per day... feels like sitting in front of a slot machine and pulling the lever. Doing a run in one of the old dungeons is 10 times as challenging for me, in those events there is no challenge to me... feels like a planned execution of a huge dragon that can't do anything to defend itself.

Also... taming is now ultra easy to master and beyond... I've found reaching that level isn't even an achievement anymore.

I was like... ok I'm GM tamer now... and felt nothing, something I never had the patience to achieve back in the day seems quite trivial now.

Every tamer I meet is a legendary tamer... not much of a legend if everyone is a legend.

Anyways, I digress.

I did come in thinking that the game was well balanced... but I'm finding the only way to get good equipment (maybe) is to join those events. As any other similar level content I will wipeout in less than a second.

One of my guild mates is a paladin, we've done all we can to better his build and equipment, and still he can't even hope to fight a small boss like Miasma... he dies in two hits, no time to heal at all.

Without my pet, we're stuck killing mud elementals or similar, so no, its not balanced at all. Imagine if you're a solo player building a paladin and the best you can handle is a flame elemental... which gives absolutely 0 loot. I can train a Clydesdale in 2 days and its going to be way more powerful than a fully trained paladin, hello... earth calls the moon, how do you think my guildmates feel when I get my dragon or mare out?

Its been hard to find mid-level content that is satisfying a challenge vs rewards for my little guild of returning players. We can hunt the strongest spots we can handle, wipe out many times... challenge is fun, but the loot is so ridiculous we ignore most of it.

There is absolutely 0 feeling we could get lucky and find a better piece of equipment than what people casually drop on the floor daily... so every training instead of being enjoyed is just a race to the "end-game" which only happens for a few specific builds, if you tried to be a little different, no end game for you. No wonder people run around telling all the new players the tricks to kind of hack the system... i.e. people taking a boat to the spellbinders to train a pet resist in a few hours at most.

Its so wrong IMO, makes everything so trivial... just my opinion.

Grimbeard · December 7

Ahua said:

I've been training a tamer and trying to grasp the dynamics here... seems its not just the rarity, but the fact this pet seems one of the best in the game (correct me if I'm wrong)... if it was just deco, nobody would "burn out" but then again, perhaps people would say the event is not interesting and not be entertained, and since its the only event and temporary....

I don't envy having to juggle to this kind of quid pro quo.

on another note I've found it funny when someone took me to some of those hunts and I kept targeting people's pets thinking they were mobs. I think in any of those events, there are more umbrascale dragon pets than actual mobs spawning (lol)

pure chaos... personally I get a headache.

I know a player that does this all day long (retired) and he did get 5 of them... so they're out there.

He keeps wanting me to join in... but after 2-3 runs like that I'm overdosed for at least a week, even with the great loot I can't get elsewhere (sadly and very worryingly).

Legendary artifacts are now so common people let them decay on the corpses or drop them on the ground to help new players, who in turn will never find better loot in their whole gameplay experience. Why name them legendary in the first place?

Imagine doing over 200 runs per day... feels like sitting in front of a slot machine and pulling the lever. Doing a run in one of the old dungeons is 10 times as challenging for me, in those events there is no challenge to me... feels like a planned execution of a huge dragon that can't do anything to defend itself.

Also... taming is now ultra easy to master and beyond... I've found reaching that level isn't even an achievement anymore.

I was like... ok I'm GM tamer now... and felt nothing, something I never had the patience to achieve back in the day seems quite trivial now.

Every tamer I meet is a legendary tamer... not much of a legend if everyone is a legend.

Anyways, I digress.

I did come in thinking that the game was well balanced... but I'm finding the only way to get good equipment (maybe) is to join those events. As any other similar level content I will wipeout in less than a second.

One of my guild mates is a paladin, we've done all we can to better his build and equipment, and still he can't even hope to fight a small boss like Miasma... he dies in two hits, no time to heal at all.

Without my pet, we're stuck killing mud elementals or similar, so no, its not balanced at all. Imagine if you're a solo player building a paladin and the best you can handle is a flame elemental... which gives absolutely 0 loot. I can train a Clydesdale in 2 days and its going to be way more powerful than a fully trained paladin, hello... earth calls the moon, how do you think my guildmates feel when I get my dragon or mare out?

Its been hard to find mid-level content that is satisfying a challenge vs rewards for my little guild of returning players. We can hunt the strongest spots we can handle, wipe out many times... challenge is fun, but the loot is so ridiculous we ignore most of it.

There is absolutely 0 feeling we could get lucky and find a better piece of equipment than what people casually drop on the floor daily... so every training instead of being enjoyed is just a race to the "end-game" which only happens for a few specific builds, if you tried to be a little different, no end game for you. No wonder people run around telling all the new players the tricks to kind of hack the system... i.e. people taking a boat to the spellbinders to train a pet resist in a few hours at most.

Its so wrong IMO, makes everything so trivial... just my opinion.

You can do everything in the game in a journeyman suit...

Ahua · December 7

I will need a better teacher then... I'm very receptive and learn quick, but I'm still learning lots of new things. Point is, while learning, there should be content that feels like its worth the effort.

If what you say is right and there are "tricks" to do anything in the game for i.e. a classic paladin... then this explains why legendary artefacts are so common they are being dropped on the floor casually. We're not in a better balance with that in mind.

Pawain · December 7

Ahua said:

I will need a better teacher then... I'm very receptive and learn quick, but I'm still learning lots of new things. Point is, while learning, there should be content that feels like its worth the effort.

If what you say is right and there are "tricks" to do anything in the game for i.e. a classic paladin... then this explains why legendary artefacts are so common they are being dropped on the floor casually. We're not in a better balance with that in mind.

That better armor has been around many years. It was difficult for any melee template to built a suit for max weapon speed. Unless you played Swords.

The devs noticed this and started putting armor out for events. The first piece, which literally did allow for fencers and Macers to compete with swords. That was the SSI Epps.

They could have stopped there, but the event style was so popular and players wanted More!

Since then they have made 1 armor slot piece for each event.

This event culminates the Dexxer suit. The new Helmet means all armor slots have an event armor item for Dexxers.

Grimbeard · December 7

Ahua said:

I will need a better teacher then... I'm very receptive and learn quick, but I'm still learning lots of new things. Point is, while learning, there should be content that feels like its worth the effort.

If what you say is right and there are "tricks" to do anything in the game for i.e. a classic paladin... then this explains why legendary artefacts are so common they are being dropped on the floor casually. We're not in a better balance with that in mind.

What shard do you play?

Ahua · December 8

I am on Atlantic!

Pawain · December 8

Ahua said:

I am on Atlantic!

I can give you the pieces on the NPC. I make gates for the Matriarch, have hundreds of extra drops.

Ahua · December 8

Sounds good... what pieces are you referring to? I usually hang out in new haven, as my main activity is helping new players and trying my best to retain them and get them to sub to the game.

Pawain · December 8

I bought a few items. Ill PM you when I am on tomorrow night. (Later today)

KroDuK · December 17

@ForeverFun @Rocko The CM already told us if matriarch is affected by luck or not.
No need to assume stuff here.

Mordeed · December 17

As the original title to this post says, does anyone have a definitive answer to this? I'm been opening chests and nests with about 2600 luck and nothing yet. Well, 3 effigies. The only difference I've seen the other night I got two eggs in one chest, neither mature. So is their a lower cap of luck to even have a chance?

NuSair · December 17

Mordeed said:

As the original title to this post says, does anyone have a definitive answer to this? I'm been opening chests and nests with about 2600 luck and nothing yet. Well, 3 effigies. The only difference I've seen the other night I got two eggs in one chest, neither mature. So is their a lower cap of luck to even have a chance?

Definitive as I can be. Luck works on T-Maps and general creature loot. I've done over 1000 Nest Maps, I did 300 with 0 luck for testing. 700+ with 3000-5000+ luck. Luck did not affect any of the loot from the nest. It was the same number of gems based on the level of the nest, none of the equipment seemed to be modified by luck (ie- still useless junk). No idea if Luck affects the chance for a mature egg, but, given that Luck doesn't seem to affect anything else about the nest, I would say no. Same with Detecting Hidden on chest. Over roughly the same number of hidden chest with 3k-5k+ luck we've gotten 2 effigies.

keven2002 · December 17

NuSair said:
Definitive as I can be. Luck works on T-Maps and general creature loot. I've done over 1000 Nest Maps, I did 300 with 0 luck for testing. 700+ with 3000-5000+ luck. Luck did not affect any of the loot from the nest. It was the same number of gems based on the level of the nest, none of the equipment seemed to be modified by luck (ie- still useless junk).

Yea unfortunately the T-map "revision" several years ago missed the mark on putting "good items" in treasure chests.

As for "does luck actually" in general... I'd say it does. You get more ToT drops from thee vents with more luck; easy enough to test this by clicking the luck statues vs not having them touched... same suit/mobs/dungeons/etc and 10 out of 10 times I'm getting more drops with luck (2300 luck vs 0). It also should work on corpse loot and again I think it does because doing things like UW with and without a luck suit I've noticed a difference, but this one is much harder to test because of the RNG and unknown... it's hard to verify anything. You get X item with luck but might still get X item without a luck suit because your RNG rolled high enough.

I think that's where luck falls for the mature eggs ( @Mordeed - I think this is what you are asking)... I think it does help improve your chances but due to RNG people (myself included) will get a mature egg with lower luck. I was running 5k luck while doing massive nests and didn't get anything but ended up with several lower maps so I decided to do them all until I had nothing left on me... I ended up getting an egg in a lesser map with maybe 500 luck. Without being able to see the numbers behind the scenes, it's going to be near impossible to actually confirm unless you run a sample size of like 1000 maps with a luck suit and 1000 without and even then the numbers might be close OR just super random where you get the same due to RNG kicking in with lower luck.

TLDR - I do think luck plays a part in getting mature eggs but I'm not sure it's super noticeable to the casual player.

The biggest question for me is if getting an egg is 100% RNG where in the same person has the same exact chance every single time... so technically speaking could get back to back to back eggs if the RNG hit. Like if I start doing nests and get an egg on my 2nd nest; should I just log that toon out and use a different on? The 2 eggs I've gotten have been on 2 different toons & accounts so I haven't been able to see how many nests in between on the same toon..

Grimbeard · December 17

What would be the developers reason for saying luck matters if it didn't?

keven2002 · December 18

Grimbeard said:

What would be the developers reason for saying luck matters if it didn't?

Because luck matters for some things but not all; which has been confirmed by the Devs. The problem is that everything is super vague and in some instances seems like it's just coincidence.

I also remember reading something about way back in the day Draconi started looking into luck and thought that it might not be working as intended, but left before he completed anything.

Additionally because when it comes to in game luck, it's like a black box that nobody can explain exactly how it works; even the Devs explanation of it a few weeks ago on a 5 on Friday left much to be desired. They say that in most cases there is no such thing as "luck cap" where additional luck doesn't help, but if you look at UOGuide there is a luck calc and there is a cap. There hasn't been any change to luck (at least that they have told us) so given there is a difference in info, that alone tells me luck isn't very clear on how it works. Merlin asked a follow up question to give clarification on luck and so far it hasn't been answered. They say things like "if a luck roll is successful..." but what exactly does that mean? Is it a 6 sided dice (1 out of 6 chances of "rolling luck") or is it a 1000 sided dice (1 in 1000 luck roll).

Lastly, I know from working with developers (and even build data reports myself) that we can say "Yes X item is working as intended" because we do truly think it's working when we look at it...but I've had several occasions where people have come back to me and said "Ok, but Y isn't working as you say because here is the data that shows that". It's not until we dig into the example that we see that it's not actually working exactly how we think. It's impossible for any of us to actually test luck given they won't tell us how it works exactly so who knows if it's actually working as intended or not in every circumstance.... my guess is that it doesn't just given the changes over 20+ years of coding.... but again it's impossible to tell.

The other thing that I'd personally like to know "how luck works" is to weigh the benefits of luck. Max luck suits are nowhere near as efficient as we can get on a suit... so the best example I can give is for the ToT drops (where luck does help increase drops) where for me, I would much rather go with a "no luck suit" that's max efficient for killing because I'm able to get more drops that way (killing faster) than using a max luck suit. We should be able to have this info to make an informed decision when playing.

It's similar for my dungeon crawler who has over 100+ skills on items in my typical suit... when I wear a luck suit my entire template goes out the window as I'm missing an entire 120 skill at that point. I'd like to know how much luck plays a part in getting a mature egg (amongst other things) because if it only bumps up my chances from 1% to 2%; I'd much rather use my typical dungeon crawling suit and be more efficient at finding chests.

Again... asking to be informed isn't a bad thing.

Grimbeard · December 18

keven2002 said:

Grimbeard said:

What would be the developers reason for saying luck matters if it didn't?

Because luck matters for some things but not all; which has been confirmed by the Devs. The problem is that everything is super vague and in some instances seems like it's just coincidence.

I also remember reading something about way back in the day Draconi started looking into luck and thought that it might not be working as intended, but left before he completed anything.

Additionally because when it comes to in game luck, it's like a black box that nobody can explain exactly how it works; even the Devs explanation of it a few weeks ago on a 5 on Friday left much to be desired. They say that in most cases there is no such thing as "luck cap" where additional luck doesn't help, but if you look at UOGuide there is a luck calc and there is a cap. There hasn't been any change to luck (at least that they have told us) so given there is a difference in info, that alone tells me luck isn't very clear on how it works. Merlin asked a follow up question to give clarification on luck and so far it hasn't been answered. They say things like "if a luck roll is successful..." but what exactly does that mean? Is it a 6 sided dice (1 out of 6 chances of "rolling luck") or is it a 1000 sided dice (1 in 1000 luck roll).

Lastly, I know from working with developers (and even build data reports myself) that we can say "Yes X item is working as intended" because we do truly think it's working when we look at it...but I've had several occasions where people have come back to me and said "Ok, but Y isn't working as you say because here is the data that shows that". It's not until we dig into the example that we see that it's not actually working exactly how we think. It's impossible for any of us to actually test luck given they won't tell us how it works exactly so who knows if it's actually working as intended or not in every circumstance.... my guess is that it doesn't just given the changes over 20+ years of coding.... but again it's impossible to tell.

The other thing that I'd personally like to know "how luck works" is to weigh the benefits of luck. Max luck suits are nowhere near as efficient as we can get on a suit... so the best example I can give is for the ToT drops (where luck does help increase drops) where for me, I would much rather go with a "no luck suit" that's max efficient for killing because I'm able to get more drops that way (killing faster) than using a max luck suit. We should be able to have this info to make an informed decision when playing.

It's similar for my dungeon crawler who has over 100+ skills on items in my typical suit... when I wear a luck suit my entire template goes out the window as I'm missing an entire 120 skill at that point. I'd like to know how much luck plays a part in getting a mature egg (amongst other things) because if it only bumps up my chances from 1% to 2%; I'd much rather use my typical dungeon crawling suit and be more efficient at finding chests.

Again... asking to be informed isn't a bad thing.

I agree and just error on the side of too much luck. For gear off monsters I find 2200 is my sweet spot

keven2002 · December 18

Yep but I think that's kind of the issue we are talking about aiming for "too much luck" when it comes at a detriment to effectiveness. I also think it depends on what you are looking for and what you are hunting.

I would stack as much luck as possible when doing UW which seemed to result in some really good stuff and even some clean legendary pieces. My personal experience was that max luck netted better results than lower luck. That said, when doing Tmaps (not nest) I never really noticed a ton of difference between 0 luck / 2k luck / 4k luck over the course of thousands of chests so I stopped using a luck suit. It made more sense to me to be able to do as many Tmaps as I could in my playtime vs trying to have max luck (quantity over quality).

Pawain · December 18

No such thing as too much luck for Salt Peter mining or basic loot increase.

But for items sometimes you don't want the high cursed item you got.

So, how many levels of luck are we expecting them to write about.

What luck we need for SSI jewels, what luck for the guaranteed not cursed not antique legendary items, exactly how much to get max benefits from dungeon crawling for drops.

I'm still mad a Popps all his BS posting about the luck suit I doubt he made. That is what started with us needing luck for new things.

I think luck is like the deco eggs. Should be for deco.

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If Luck Actually Works

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