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Gives me NO incentive to log in

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    edited June 24
    keven2002 said:

    You are completely missing what is being said (likely intentionally); people aren't complaining about unattended accounts, they are complaining about the attended MULTBOXing which is also still illegal. GMs action some of these accounts but not others... as usual it's inconsistent. 

    Only approved clients SHOULD be able to log in.... but we all know that's not true and that only worked for a while ago for a few days... it was a glorious few days but the cheaters kicked and screamed enough (and found a fix) that we are back to the constellation client working to log in. I think you know that as well.
    But if multiple players were IRL actually playing these accounts - everything would be fine?
    How come?
    What is the real difference?
    It affects people so badly in one scenario (multi-accounts attended or not attended), yet the other scenario is fine (multiple players playing those accounts) - yet to all intents and purposes there is NO difference or effect to the people complaining.
    Does the fact that it is real players, just make them feel better or something? Is it in the soul?
    I think you are all preaching a broken religion.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 1,062


    I would suggest that if you see someone that looks like they may be breaking the TOS, then please, page a GM. You will have to target said players as well so the GM knows whom you are reporting. The GM will investigate these players, but you will not receive information on if an action was taken on said players. 
      Oh we receive the information when we continue to see the same groups of bots for the remaining duration of the events.  

      Secondly, if Cheats are detectable... Why does it still require another player to page a GM on suspected cheaters?   
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!

  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 1,056
    I don't get the, "well, as long as folks respond to the GM's everything is cool", argument. Since when has it been ok to multibox as long as someone can respond to the GM when they're caught at it?

    Here's my unpopular opinion...
    Not only should anyone multiboxing be banned, the follow function should be gotten rid of. You want to play more than one character at a time? Control them separately
    Cookie said:

    Let's also not pretend they aren't probably paying more than you to play therefore, and may just want to play an expanded game. Relatively speaking, it comes down the the same thing - in terms of what is paid for, and what is gained.

    So this is basically you complaining that someone has a bigger house than you. You cannot do that irl, so you do it in a game, you get the ability to be a virtual policeman.
    Geez! LOL! This is not just an awful thing to say, it's some bullchit.
    . 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Cookie said:
    keven2002 said:

    You are completely missing what is being said (likely intentionally); people aren't complaining about unattended accounts, they are complaining about the attended MULTBOXing which is also still illegal. GMs action some of these accounts but not others... as usual it's inconsistent. 

    Only approved clients SHOULD be able to log in.... but we all know that's not true and that only worked for a while ago for a few days... it was a glorious few days but the cheaters kicked and screamed enough (and found a fix) that we are back to the constellation client working to log in. I think you know that as well.
    But if multiple players were IRL actually playing these accounts - everything would be fine?
    How come?
    What is the real difference?
    It affects people so badly in one scenario (multi-accounts attended or not attended), yet the other scenario is fine (multiple players playing those accounts) - yet to all intents and purposes there is NO difference or effect to the people complaining.
    Does the fact that it is real players, just make them feel better or something? Is it in the soul?
    I think you are all preaching a broken religion.
    No one can behave in the manner the bots do .this seem like a strange hill for you to fight on . What if the bots moved to fel and killed everyone you want to kill? And you couldn't kill them 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    edited June 24
    Grimbeard said:
    Cookie said:

    No one can behave in the manner the bots do .this seem like a strange hill for you to fight on . What if the bots moved to fel and killed everyone you want to kill? And you couldn't kill them 
    I'd kill the bots, I already do, and a fair few are dying in this event for unexplained reasons :)
    (Although they help my rogue, I follow them like cars in traffic follow an ambulance!)    :)

    I have 5 accounts, if I have to play them all separately it will take me 5 times longer, when I am paying 5 times more...

    My 2 sons play sometimes, but they have lives, they are young, they are developing, they have a ton of real life stuff to do - I don't (I've done it all), so if I want to play with them, I need to also progress their accounts a bit.
    I sometimes play 3 accounts, I am not getting any more, or less, than I would if we were playing all 3.

    I think there is enough spawn in these events for everyone, no-one is losing out, and this is my point. On a paid vs rewards measurement - everyone is also equal. Absolutely no-one is losing out, so why is anyone even complaining?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    edited June 24
    keven2002 said:
    Pawain said:
    Lokea said:
    Pawain said:
    Would be nice if they at least take the whole group to the jail and confront them there.  It may discourage a few of them.
    It is blatantly obvious what they are doing, and they seem confident that nothing will happen to them. They tell you to **** off when you confront them to and "mind your own business".
    Well that means they are attended if they are talking to you.  The GMs are not banning attended players on paid accounts.  

    Only approved clients should be able to log into UO.
    You are completely missing what is being said (likely intentionally); people aren't complaining about unattended accounts, they are complaining about the attended MULTBOXing which is also still illegal. GMs action some of these accounts but not others... as usual it's inconsistent. 

    Only approved clients SHOULD be able to log in.... but we all know that's not true and that only worked for a while ago for a few days... it was a glorious few days but the cheaters kicked and screamed enough (and found a fix) that we are back to the constellation client working to log in. I think you know that as well.
    I know that.  But if the GM talks to them and they talk back.  Nothing will be done to them.  Am I incorrect?

    At least I'm not calling it expanded gameplay.  :D

    I'm also saying, haul them to jail and question them there.  Maybe that would stop a couple of them.

    I have done a few commader stages on Atlantic.   There were EM event size crowds. Last night there was just 1 set of multi account followers.

    Yall are sure they can automate the entry and finding the Commaders?  IMO they would have to be attended.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Cookie said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Cookie said:

    No one can behave in the manner the bots do .this seem like a strange hill for you to fight on . What if the bots moved to fel and killed everyone you want to kill? And you couldn't kill them 
    I'd kill the bots, I already do, and a fair few are dying in this event for unexplained reasons :)
    (Although they help my rogue, I follow them like cars in traffic follow an ambulance!)    :)

    I have 5 accounts, if I have to play them all separately it will take me 5 times longer, when I am paying 5 times more...

    My 2 sons play sometimes, but they have lives, they are young, they are developing, they have a ton of real life stuff to do - I don't (I've done it all), so if I want to play with them, I need to also progress their accounts a bit.
    I sometimes play 3 accounts, I am not getting any more, or less, than I would if we were playing all 3.

    I think there is enough spawn in these events for everyone, no-one is losing out, and this is my point. On a paid vs rewards measurement - everyone is also equal. Absolutely no-one is losing out, so why is anyone even complaining?
    But people are losing out on drops it dramatically impacts everyone 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    edited June 24
    Grimbeard said:

    But people are losing out on drops it dramatically impacts everyone 
    How is anyone losing out on drops?

    There is enough spawn for everyone.
    It zero impacts anyone.
    The dungeon is big enough, there is enough spawn.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    Ahh, I was assuming you meant the dungeon, where people use bots, not the gates, or the champions where they do not seem to be using bots.
    Because - they cannot get them there quick enough possibly, or know when those stages will happen.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    edited June 24
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    They are standing at the gate killing all the spawn thus normal honest players are losing out
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,463
    LilyGrace said:
    I don't get the, "well, as long as folks respond to the GM's everything is cool", argument. Since when has it been ok to multibox as long as someone can respond to the GM when they're caught at it?

    Here's my unpopular opinion...
    Not only should anyone multiboxing be banned, the follow function should be gotten rid of. You want to play more than one character at a time? Control them separately
    Cookie said:

    Let's also not pretend they aren't probably paying more than you to play therefore, and may just want to play an expanded game. Relatively speaking, it comes down the the same thing - in terms of what is paid for, and what is gained.

    So this is basically you complaining that someone has a bigger house than you. You cannot do that irl, so you do it in a game, you get the ability to be a virtual policeman.
    Geez! LOL! This is not just an awful thing to say, it's some bullchit.
    . 
    I'm using a second account for bard support and I use auto follow; it is NOT EVEN CLOSE to follow ability of the constellation (or other illegal) client; my guy zigs and zags while also sometimes getting stuck when going in/out buildings. Stopping the auto follow wouldn't even phase the cheaters; it would only negatively impact the people not using illegal clients.

    Your second statement is spot on. Cookie, who is an admitted cheater, is trying to justify breaking the rules. The last time I checked, multiboxing is ILLEGAL...regardless of attended or not. I don't see anywhere in the TOS that if someone has enough accounts, they are allowed to multibox but maybe I overlooked that like many of the GMs do when it comes to policing. 

    Cookie said:

    But if multiple players were IRL actually playing these accounts - everything would be fine?
    How come?
    What is the real difference?
    It affects people so badly in one scenario (multi-accounts attended or not attended), yet the other scenario is fine (multiple players playing those accounts) - yet to all intents and purposes there is NO difference or effect to the people complaining.
    Does the fact that it is real players, just make them feel better or something? Is it in the soul?
    I think you are all preaching a broken religion.
    I think you and I both know this argument is weak, at best, and what it comes down to is just pure greed on whoever is running those multibox accounts. You are looking to stack the deck so that you get more drops and are able to profit from them. If this truly was multiple players then it would take, as designed, around a certain amount of time to get X drops for each player compared to taking a fraction of that because the same person is illegally acquiring those items. 

    I decided to put both of your comments in this post to show just how much BS you are trying to pull. In one post you are acting like "well what if it was real players, what is the issue with them getting drops" and in the other you are sharing your true thoughts where basically you think if you pay more than others you can do whatever you like. Listen, you are an admitted cheater using illegal clients/scripts to play the game; there is no need try to warp it and try to make it seem like you are "just more efficient" than others... the truth is that you cheat to get a leg up and since using illegal 3rd party clients isn't being actioned, there really is no reason for you or others to stop. Period. I'm not even saying you are wrong thinking that...but come on...let's not pretend that you aren't brazenly breaking the TOS. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    They are standing at the gate killing all the spawn thus normal honest players are losing out
    If you want drops before the city opens.  Shoot the catapults.   Those at the gates get 1 or 2 drops.
    Catapult operators get 20+  and rubble.  Enough that you will be overweight and have 125 items before the fight is half over.

    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    They are standing at the gate killing all the spawn thus normal honest players are losing out
    If you want drops before the city opens.  Shoot the catapults.   Those at the gates get 1 or 2 drops.
    Catapult operators get 20+  and rubble.  Enough that you will be overweight and have 125 items before the fight is half over.

    My drops are not the point here..
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    They are standing at the gate killing all the spawn thus normal honest players are losing out
    If you want drops before the city opens.  Shoot the catapults.   Those at the gates get 1 or 2 drops.
    Catapult operators get 20+  and rubble.  Enough that you will be overweight and have 125 items before the fight is half over.

    My drops are not the point here..
    So the bots are not taking drops from you as you stated?

    Read the lyrics of "Smoking in the Boys room".

    Same applies here.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • LokeaLokea Posts: 207
    Cookie said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Like I said I don't  care if they are attended and paid let's not pretend they aren't multiboxing 
    Let's also not pretend they aren't probably paying more than you to play therefore, and may just want to play an expanded game. Relatively speaking, it comes down the the same thing - in terms of what is paid for, and what is gained..
    It's not the same thing - they are getting 4-5 times as many drops as those of us legitimately playing the game and following the rules.  And let's not pretend that a bunch of them aren't RMTers.

    Cookie said:
    Just because something is in the rules, does not means it is right, or commonsense. :)

    They could be out of date, they could be restrictive, a method of control.
    Always question the rules. :)
    If you don't agree with the rules against multiboxing, then don't accept the TOS and cancel your accounts. You don't get to decide what rules should and should not be followed. What's next, are you going to tell your kid "hey, just because the rules in basketball state that you have to shoot from inbounds or that you can't take too many steps without dribbling doesn't mean it's right or that you should follow them."

    If you want the rules changed, you don't do it by acting like they don't or shouldn't apply to you and and so you are breaking them, you follow the rules but start a thread proposing that multiboxing and other clients should be legal.  Don't dance around the issue and play coy. Come out and state that you support it and don't understand why there are rules against it.
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 1,056
    @keven2002 “I'm using a second account for bard support and I use auto follow; it is NOT EVEN CLOSE to follow ability of the constellation (or other illegal) client; my guy zigs and zags while also sometimes getting stuck when going in/out buildings. Stopping the auto follow wouldn't even phase the cheaters; it would only negatively impact the people not using illegal clients.”

    That’s fair. Maybe a compromise could be made. A character can have ONE follower. A character that has a follower cannot follow another character. A character that is following another character can have no followers. 

    It seems reasonable to me to get rid of the ability to string three to six characters together. 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    LilyGrace said:
    @ keven2002 “I'm using a second account for bard support and I use auto follow; it is NOT EVEN CLOSE to follow ability of the constellation (or other illegal) client; my guy zigs and zags while also sometimes getting stuck when going in/out buildings. Stopping the auto follow wouldn't even phase the cheaters; it would only negatively impact the people not using illegal clients.”

    That’s fair. Maybe a compromise could be made. A character can have ONE follower. A character that has a follower cannot follow another character. A character that is following another character can have no followers. 

    It seems reasonable to me to get rid of the ability to string three to six characters together. 
    This is not a case of auto follow multiple times this is one person controlling multiple accounts 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    They are standing at the gate killing all the spawn thus normal honest players are losing out
    If you want drops before the city opens.  Shoot the catapults.   Those at the gates get 1 or 2 drops.
    Catapult operators get 20+  and rubble.  Enough that you will be overweight and have 125 items before the fight is half over.

    My drops are not the point here..
    So the bots are not taking drops from you as you stated?

    Read the lyrics of "Smoking in the Boys room".

    Same applies here.
    You are trying to tell me how to get drops like I'm a noob totally not what we are discussing here
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    When breaking gate without bot lots of rubble with bots zero without bots vs the bosses drops with bots less your justification for cheating is astonishing 
    The bots are crafting items and using the catapults with no person behind the controls?  How do they know when to stop shooting the catapult?  Or when to start throwing Bombs at the gates?

    I got drops from the catapult last night when 4 of us were shooting.
    They are standing at the gate killing all the spawn thus normal honest players are losing out
    If you want drops before the city opens.  Shoot the catapults.   Those at the gates get 1 or 2 drops.
    Catapult operators get 20+  and rubble.  Enough that you will be overweight and have 125 items before the fight is half over.

    My drops are not the point here..
    So the bots are not taking drops from you as you stated?

    Read the lyrics of "Smoking in the Boys room".

    Same applies here.
    You are trying to tell me how to get drops like I'm a noob totally not what we are discussing here
    Now, teacher, don't you fill me up with your rule
    'Cause everybody knows that smokin' ain't allowed in school

    Why are we discussing what everybody knows? 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    keven2002 said:

    . 
    I'm using a second account for bard support and I use auto follow; it is NOT EVEN CLOSE to follow ability of the constellation (or other illegal) client; my guy zigs and zags while also sometimes getting stuck when going in/out buildings. Stopping the auto follow wouldn't even phase the cheaters; it would only negatively impact the people not using illegal clients.
    "It is not even close"...
    I'd hate to tell you this, it is not only close, it is identical, it is the same thing - this is what I use.
    There is nothing extra I use.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    edited June 24
    Lokea said:

    It's not the same thing - they are getting 4-5 times as many drops as those of us legitimately playing the game and following the rules.  And let's not pretend that a bunch of them aren't RMTers.


    And they are paying 4-5 times more.
    Therefore, as I said, relatively speaking, they are equal.

    I accept some maybe RMTers. However, it takes 2 to tango, RMTers would not exist if the demand was not there. The question has to be asked, why is the demand there?
    If you asked that question, and developed against it, you could reduce RMT. Whilst I am not an RMTer, this does not bother me also.
    Americans have a lot of money, they don't have so much time, they think nothing of paying to give themselves a leg-up or to progress through the parts of the game they do not find fun, to get to the parts they do find fun, it is their culture, the rest of the world knows this - some parts of the world need that money, and are prepared to put the work in to earn it. Do I begrudge either side of this equation? No.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    edited June 24
    keven2002 said:

    Your second statement is spot on. Cookie, who is an admitted cheater, 
    I am an admitted progressive. :)



    If you don't agree with the rules against multiboxing, then don't accept the TOS and cancel your accounts. You don't get to decide what rules should and should not be followed. 

    Come out and state that you support it and don't understand why there are rules against it.

    When the rules prevented Gay people from existing - do you think they stopped, or ceased existing? An excellent example of when the rules were incorrect - and authoritarian people tried to impose rules on other people.

    Yes - I do get to decide what rules I follow or not.
    If I wanted to, I could murder someone, luckily I don't want to, because I agree we should not in general. You would send me to jail if you thought I was bad enough - I would accept that.

    If I want to, I will play more than 1 character, you do not get to decide my life options. If the GM's or Devs want to ban me, they are free to, you are missing the point, I am willing to accept responsibility for my actions - I have thought them through.

    If I want to, I will do 33mph in a 30 zone, depending on the situation. I may, or may not get away with it. But I do get to chose. And you do not get to tell me how to run my life.

    I am very anti-authoritarian - this is a bigger issue for me, than playing 2 characters in a computer game.

    I have suggested many times, the rules are out of date, and need updating.
    What do you think I am doing right now?
    I am standing here in front of you all, not being coy, I have said from day 1, I am being transparent, I would like the rules changed, because I think they are out of date.

    In the meantime, nothing I am doing, is to get any sort of benefit, it is to have fun, and play the game. Again, you are not going to stop me, and I don't care about your regressive opinions.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    edited June 24
    The Commander part just ended on Atlantic.  There's 2 Garg trains, some Gargs that are Mystics.
    I got my 45 drops and the usual pieces of rubble in the bag...

    I called out in chat that it was beginning and some asked what template, I told them tamer always gets drops from Commanders,  Am I also causing others not to get drops because I encouraged 4 more players in, that would not have come?

    Funny how on LS and Atlantic, I have only seen two bosses.  The Tree and the Automatron.



    Whole bunch of players having fun and getting drops.  Why stress over something that is not in our power to change?  

    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Pawain said:
    The Commander part just ended on Atlantic.  There's 2 Garg trains, some Gargs that are Mystics.
    I got my 45 drops and the usual pieces of rubble in the bag...

    I called out in chat that it was beginning and some asked what template, I told them tamer always gets drops from Commanders,  Am I also causing others not to get drops because I encouraged 4 more players in, that would not have come?

    Funny how on LS and Atlantic, I have only seen two bosses.  The Tree and the Automatron.



    Whole bunch of players having fun and getting drops.  Why stress over something that is not in our power to change?  

    Because it's wrong and within the developers power to change 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
    Exactly.  Their power to change, but not ours. 

    They know its been going on for years.  How many emails have you sent to them?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,040
    Grimbeard said:

    Because it's wrong and within the developers power to change 
    Stop being so fixed, so black and white, so small to be fair.

    Is it dropping a bomb on Iran style wrong, or showering missiles on Israel kind of wrong, or invading Israel with a terrorist army kind of wrong, or killing a Palestinian civilian population kind of wrong, or invading Ukraine kind of wrong, or destroying our planet kind of wrong?

    If so, I do apologise.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,997
     :D  Distract from reality, just like they are doing. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,031
    Wrong is Wrong 
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