Impossible to beat house placement scripters??

Hi,
Over the last couple of days I have been actively trying to place a house on Atlantic.
IDOC announcements makes it easy to know about open spots - this is great!
However I have found that it seems that there is this one guy that seems to place at every idoc site and immediately there after sell it (Its the same contact details on all signs).
I dont see a problem in this, its a good income I guess. The problem I see is that it is impossible to beat this scripter without cheating/scripting yourself. 
After first try  some days ago, I learned that you could check for ability to place by casting recall, if this works, then the spot is open for placement.
So I made a macro in EC (Not using any 3rd party tools) to just stand in the spot and cast recall.
For 3 idocs (2 yesterday evening and 1 this morning), my dude was spamming recall nonstop, but even before my first recall was starting to cast, the house was down - BOOM.
Then I figured that this guy cant be checking with recall as I do as it would be highly unlikely that he would be so fast.

I went on and searched a bit and found this information:
"When the house collapse an invisible tile is placed at the SW corner of the previous , also known as "no draw" tile. That tile contain the info of when the area will be available to replot. There is quite a few people using a script that can read that tile and when the tile vanish, they can replot the house in .0000001 sec."

If this is truly the case, then "normal" players using the normal clients, will never have a chance to place a house if a scripter is about. 

Could we think of some alternative solutions to this? Some kind of script prevention by making it truly random? Then everyone would have a chance as you cant just use the house tool over and over before it goes into cooldown.

Brainstorming welcome here :)

Thanks for listening.

(I don't expect or demand to have a 18x18, I just expect everyone to have a fair chance of getting it without cheating involved - if possible)
 
Zayin: Paladin
Mort: Mystic Mage
Siw: Tamer
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Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    Hey Mort.

    As Mort and I are guildies, I have to completely back him up ofc. :)

    The way I did it, was ask in general chat if anyone knew of a free small house spot, and someone did, they showed it to me for free, and bingo I got a tiny Trammel vendor house on Atlantic which suits me fine.

    But I think Mort has written that up very well, and explained the issue well.
  • Thanks Cookie - finding small spots is not an issue at all. I have several marked, so let me know if you want to upgrade :)
    I also placed myself a 12*14 house which is actually more than I need on Atlantic as it is not my main shard. When I placed this house there was not a scripter there trying to place.
    I guess they only go for the maximum secures or bigger houses as they sell for multiple Ps on Atlantic.
    But doing these 3 maximum secures idocs over a short period of time really showed me how effective that script is that he is running. 
    As long as it is possible to script house placement like this, all larger houses (At least in tram ruleset) will fall into the hands of these scripters and afterwards the gold is probably sold on the gold seller sites (Just speculating here).
    Zayin: Paladin
    Mort: Mystic Mage
    Siw: Tamer
  • TheoTheo Posts: 127
    Again - two ways to fix this - auction the plot (just like magencia vendor houses) then anyone can pay for the plot and if house brokers want to bid the house up they can - but then they will have to bid it past the highest bid. Good luck making a profit if the highest bid is 5p. Whos going to pay you 6p?    The gold deleted becomes huge gold sink and fixes the economy.  Make it an 8 hour auction that favors people who attended the IDOC and turns it over quickly. 

    The second option is a ticket system (like the houses given away in Underworld).  However, this still favors house brokers that have more accounts than the average person to get more of the tickets.  

    Either way is a better method then what we have now.  There are people making an actual living off of placing and selling houses for gold that they sell for money.  20 plat for a keep or castle is $1800 USD.   Not bad if you can place one or two of those a month and a dozen 18x18's at 3plat in between.  


  • Theo said:
    Again - two ways to fix this - auction the plot (just like magencia vendor houses) then anyone can pay for the plot and if house brokers want to bid the house up they can - but then they will have to bid it past the highest bid. Good luck making a profit if the highest bid is 5p. Whos going to pay you 6p?    The gold deleted becomes huge gold sink and fixes the economy.  Make it an 8 hour auction that favors people who attended the IDOC and turns it over quickly. 
    I like this idea a lot. That would work pretty well I think. Still thou, I see mostly veterans being able to pay for these houses on auction. Never players wont have several hundred millions to pay for it.
    But I guess in the end even veterans wont keep opening accounts just to have houses on them, so maybe after a while the market is better and the gold sellers wont control all larger housing on the shards. At least as you say, the gold is deleted out of the economy.
    Great ideas. This is what I was looking for! Thanks
    Zayin: Paladin
    Mort: Mystic Mage
    Siw: Tamer
  • FortisFortis Posts: 361

    it s been operating like this since this summer and nothing is done.... they hijack house price x3 and make a very good living from it...

  • SC_UO2021SC_UO2021 Posts: 18
    I’m not sure any of these changes are “actionable” and surely they would take to much time away from New Legacy. :) In other news, I’ve routinely placed at IDOCs in good locations that were not full sized. Learn not to hoard? I can barely fill my 14x14. I can’t imagine filling a castle. Castles should be reserved for guild housing. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,345
    SC_UO2021 said:
    I’m not sure any of these changes are “actionable” and surely they would take to much time away from New Legacy. :) In other news, I’ve routinely placed at IDOCs in good locations that were not full sized. Learn not to hoard? I can barely fill my 14x14. I can’t imagine filling a castle. Castles should be reserved for guild housing. 
    That's Great.  I have 3 full Keeps and a Castle that is full.  You play your way and don't impose your ideas on me. Thanks.
  • KazbarKazbar Posts: 7
    I would just be happy if they upped the storage of the smaller houses to match the bigger ones. I like my current small house, but I could use more secure storage space. 
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Pawain said:
    SC_UO2021 said:
    I’m not sure any of these changes are “actionable” and surely they would take to much time away from New Legacy. :) In other news, I’ve routinely placed at IDOCs in good locations that were not full sized. Learn not to hoard? I can barely fill my 14x14. I can’t imagine filling a castle. Castles should be reserved for guild housing. 
    That's Great.  I have 3 full Keeps and a Castle that is full.  You play your way and don't impose your ideas on me. Thanks.
    AMEN 3 Castles full with 53 BOD Vendors full
  • I was at a large 18x18 that fell and someone got really upset because some newb destroyed all the barrels and said something like 'Now it's Wild Wild West on when we can place."  I don't know if destroying all the barrels somehow removes that tile or that guy was thinking that without barrels that disappear you have no way of knowing...
  • I was at a large 18x18 that fell and someone got really upset because some newb destroyed all the barrels and said something like 'Now it's Wild Wild West on when we can place."  I don't know if destroying all the barrels somehow removes that tile or that guy was thinking that without barrels that disappear you have no way of knowing...
    Not sure, but the barrels seems to disappear 60 mins after the house drops. Then after that I have seen from 10 to 45 mins before you can replace. At least they could make that tile visible for everyone if its there and some people with 3rd party tools can see it, better let all see it.
    Zayin: Paladin
    Mort: Mystic Mage
    Siw: Tamer
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,175
    Can't we all agree that's its much more important to control the price of Black Market Items than it is to control the price of housing ? 
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,345
     :D 
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
     :D 
  • SC_UO2021SC_UO2021 Posts: 18
    Pawain said:
    SC_UO2021 said:
    I’m not sure any of these changes are “actionable” and surely they would take to much time away from New Legacy. :) In other news, I’ve routinely placed at IDOCs in good locations that were not full sized. Learn not to hoard? I can barely fill my 14x14. I can’t imagine filling a castle. Castles should be reserved for guild housing. 
    That's Great.  I have 3 full Keeps and a Castle that is full.  You play your way and don't impose your ideas on me. Thanks.
    Your way is destructive to my game play and honestly should be abolished. Hoarding junk has a very negative impact on the servers. Storing all that data is insane. When your way of playing stops being detrimental to band width, I’ll gladly stop “imposing.”
  • RadstRadst Posts: 63
    This same topic is very hot and has been discussed so many times, BUT somehow Devs dont seem to be aware of it. In the recent Meet&Greet, this question was asked in front of Mesanna. She appears to be ignorant of this issue at all, and suggested maybe Bleak can take a look at the scripting..etc.

    Just amazing. How can Devs NOT aware of this issue by now...?
  • GwenGwen Posts: 182
    It is so funny 
    I dont see a problem in this, its a good income I guess. The problem I see is that it is impossible to beat this scripter without cheating/scripting yourself. 
    After first try  some days ago, I learned that you could check for ability to place by casting recall, if this works, then the spot is open for placement.
    So I made a macro in EC (Not using any 3rd party tools) to just stand in the spot and cast recall.

    Zayin_Mort  tried to be faster than others and now unhappy that somebody is faster.  :*

    dvvid  this is exactly what I was talking in other topic about "someone in need". You and Zayin_mort only will be happy if You will get this plot. Otherwise doesnt matter who got it- he is a scripter. 


  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,345
    SC_UO2021 said: B973
    Pawain said:
    SC_UO2021 said:
    I’m not sure any of these changes are “actionable” and surely they would take to much time away from New Legacy. :) In other news, I’ve routinely placed at IDOCs in good locations that were not full sized. Learn not to hoard? I can barely fill my 14x14. I can’t imagine filling a castle. Castles should be reserved for guild housing. 
    That's Great.  I have 3 full Keeps and a Castle that is full.  You play your way and don't impose your ideas on me. Thanks.
    Your way is destructive to my game play and honestly should be abolished. Hoarding junk has a very negative impact on the servers. Storing all that data is insane. When your way of playing stops being detrimental to band width, I’ll gladly stop “imposing.”
     :D come to them so I can ban you so it does not affect your game.

    Also they turned house item off so you are incorrect, but funny.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 182
    Can't we all agree that's its much more important to control the price of Black Market Items than it is to control the price of housing ? 
    Triton costs same 140.000 doublons. Blunderbeacon gives you same ~10k doublons cargo.    What prices you are talking about in 3 topics in a row? 

  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,345
    Gwen said: I
    Can't we all agree that's its much more important to control the price of Black Market Items than it is to control the price of housing ? 
    Triton costs same 140.000 doublons. Blunderbeacon gives you same ~10k doublons cargo.    What prices you are talking about in 3 topics in a row? 

     I think his comment was aimed at the cap of 300k doubloons on the vendor.

    According to him, he is mad and took his crayons home so he will not post here anymore.
  • SC_UO2021SC_UO2021 Posts: 18
    Radst said:
    This same topic is very hot and has been discussed so many times, BUT somehow Devs dont seem to be aware of it. In the recent Meet&Greet, this question was asked in front of Mesanna. She appears to be ignorant of this issue at all, and suggested maybe Bleak can take a look at the scripting..etc.

    Just amazing. How can Devs NOT aware of this issue by now...?
    Not sure what you expect from a producer that literally said “well some people feel the need to cheat” when asked what would be done about scripting. I don’t think she really cares at all. Oh well, I am sure NL will fix all the woes. I honestly think they just want to blow things up and start over. 
  • SC_UO2021SC_UO2021 Posts: 18
    Pawain said

    Your clutter doesn’t just affect the area around your house, it affects the entire server. The fact that these rare items have to exist to be “owned” also makes it harder to scrub Frankenstein code. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,345
    SC_UO2021 said:
    Pawain said

    Your clutter doesn’t just affect the area around your house, it affects the entire server. The fact that these rare items have to exist to be “owned” also makes it harder to scrub Frankenstein code. 
    Ya like all the document files are hogging my 2T hard drive space....
  • Gwen said:
    It is so funny 
    I dont see a problem in this, its a good income I guess. The problem I see is that it is impossible to beat this scripter without cheating/scripting yourself. 
    After first try  some days ago, I learned that you could check for ability to place by casting recall, if this works, then the spot is open for placement.
    So I made a macro in EC (Not using any 3rd party tools) to just stand in the spot and cast recall.

    @ Zayin_Mort  tried to be faster than others and now unhappy that somebody is faster.  :*

    @ dvvid  this is exactly what I was talking in other topic about "someone in need". You and Zayin_mort only will be happy if You will get this plot. Otherwise doesnt matter who got it- he is a scripter. 


    What?? No, I think you missed the point. He is not faster than me on same terms - he is cheating to be faster :)
    Zayin: Paladin
    Mort: Mystic Mage
    Siw: Tamer
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,167
    Gwen said:
    It is so funny 
    I dont see a problem in this, its a good income I guess. The problem I see is that it is impossible to beat this scripter without cheating/scripting yourself. 
    After first try  some days ago, I learned that you could check for ability to place by casting recall, if this works, then the spot is open for placement.
    So I made a macro in EC (Not using any 3rd party tools) to just stand in the spot and cast recall.

    @ Zayin_Mort  tried to be faster than others and now unhappy that somebody is faster.  :*

    @ dvvid  this is exactly what I was talking in other topic about "someone in need". You and Zayin_mort only will be happy if You will get this plot. Otherwise doesnt matter who got it- he is a scripter. 


    What?? No, I think you missed the point. He is not faster than me on same terms - he is cheating to be faster :)
    Confused Are you saying that there is no way that he could be playing on the same term as you and still be better and faster than you?
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 712
    Gwen said:
    It is so funny 
    I dont see a problem in this, its a good income I guess. The problem I see is that it is impossible to beat this scripter without cheating/scripting yourself. 
    After first try  some days ago, I learned that you could check for ability to place by casting recall, if this works, then the spot is open for placement.
    So I made a macro in EC (Not using any 3rd party tools) to just stand in the spot and cast recall.

    @ Zayin_Mort  tried to be faster than others and now unhappy that somebody is faster.  :*

    @ dvvid  this is exactly what I was talking in other topic about "someone in need". You and Zayin_mort only will be happy if You will get this plot. Otherwise doesnt matter who got it- he is a scripter. 


    @Gwen It seems like you are arbitrarily accusing me of something which I don’t really understand. I don’t try to get house plots. As I said before, I have my plots and I’m more than ok with them. They are pretty small and side by side. I’d love something bigger but I’m not on the lookout. 

    So I don’t know what you are talking about me only being happy if I receive a house plot somewhere. That accusation makes absolutely no sense and I don’t know why you reached that conclusion. 

    All I was saying is that I wish houses just decayed when they collapsed and there was no house plot grab just to flip for an absolutely insane profit just because they clicked somewhere first. It just seems really greedy to me. I understand that the riches of this process are enjoyed by many but it creates an unnecessary paywall for players who want a home. 

    The scripting of the house placement equates to actual cash for some people which is the next level of the greed. The game itself suffers from all of this, in my opinion.  

    If someone owns a house and wants to sell the spot, that’s different to me. It’s the flipping that bothers me. 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    edited March 2021

    deleted, cant be bothered. :)


  • Confused Are you saying that there is no way that he could be playing on the same term as you and still be better and faster than you?
    You havnt seen him in action if you think that we are playing on same terms. That dude is using that invisible tile to script house placement. He gets them all. 1 min after placement same contact details are posted on he sign. 
    Lets sport the idea that he is cheating - do you find it ok that by cheating one person (Maybe more) are able to replace all houses, sell them for a ton of gold and then turn that gold into money on a gold seller site?
    Wouldnt some of the suggestions above with auction, raffle or actual real random placement time be better?
    Zayin: Paladin
    Mort: Mystic Mage
    Siw: Tamer
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    edited March 2021
    SC_UO2021 said:
    Pawain said:
    SC_UO2021 said:
    I’m not sure any of these changes are “actionable” and surely they would take to much time away from New Legacy. :) In other news, I’ve routinely placed at IDOCs in good locations that were not full sized. Learn not to hoard? I can barely fill my 14x14. I can’t imagine filling a castle. Castles should be reserved for guild housing. 
    That's Great.  I have 3 full Keeps and a Castle that is full.  You play your way and don't impose your ideas on me. Thanks.
    Your way is destructive to my game play and honestly should be abolished. Hoarding junk has a very negative impact on the servers. Storing all that data is insane. When your way of playing stops being detrimental to band width, I’ll gladly stop “imposing.”
    LMAO Do you even know how large "The Cloud" is.  The servers are not where or what you think they are.  What use to cause LAG was all the houses in Luna and Castles like mine with 73 Vendors but UO put a fix in to allow you to choose to see all the junk or not to see all the junk, maybe you need to check your settings if houses are causing lag.  And I already threw away 1 castle for the turn in points but I WILL NOT throw away the other 3 just because you think they cause lag which they do not.  Also if you are getting lag maybe you need to check you connection to Amazon and go to a hard line modem, stop using WiFi to play online games.
  • A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

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